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LunchCutter

Whats with this stupid BB tactic of just sitting still?

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 Noticed recently in most tier 7 to 10 games some Battleships hang right back (nothing unusual) and just stop, put the handbrake on and proceed to spend most of the game in 1 little area lobbing shells at long range. They seem to act surprise when a sudden volley of 20 torpedoes suddenly appears out of nowhere and wipes them out. Rarely see it in lower tier games, most BB's keep moving. Just the last game as an example a Bismarck and a Iowa both park next to each other by a island facing the enemy, they seem pretty immune to the shells flying at them and revelling in their superior tactics but it didn't take long for 2 Japanese DD's in a division to sneak up on them and waste them both in seconds.

 Just seems a weird tactic, few rewards and tons of risks. Some BB's take 3 hours to get moving...

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It's not unusual for BBs to sit bow on against enemies. That's just what the game incentivizes. There are BBs that's willing for forgo 1/3 of their damage per salvo, to trade that damage for survivability and longer time of engagement. Sad thing is, it works... consistently.

 

Blame WG for making WoT on water, instead of ships.

Edited by NeutralState
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Well, when you see five red guys in front of you, sometimes you get stuck.  Can't push forward, and dare not show broadside.    Other times, you're securing a cap or two.   

 

The torp soup comes from the team not dispatching the DDs, and allowing them passage around to torp from the side/back.     But other than that, your illustration is just what it is - bow tanking and not taking much damage.   Drives me nuts when a Yammy or Montana does that to me.   Like flinging marshmallows at them.

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It's called "bow tanking," or using your frontal armor to protect yourself while lobbing shells at your foes.  If used for more than a minute or two, your ship will resemble the one in this picture (if the cruisers on the other team are any good), which is why I can't bring myself to do it...

Capture.JPG

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ohh those are just the "skilled" players thinking that they are helping there team and then complain when no one supports the at the back of the map

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14 minutes ago, NeutralState said:

It's not unusual for BBs to sit bow on against enemies. That's just what the game incentivizes. There are BBs that's willing for forgo 1/3 of their damage per salvo, to trade that damage for survivability and longer time of engagement. Sad thing is, it works... consistently.

 

Blame WG for making WoT on water, instead of ships.

Also blame WG for listening to the whiners who complained that if the devs fixed the silly overmatching mechanic for ship's bows, it would prevent them from pushing into the enemy, when it's this same stupid mechanic that also allows for the most campy tactic in the damned game, i.e. bow tanking.  It's just plain silly that a well angled bow with paper thin armor is more important than a BB's actual forward citadel bulkhead armor for protecting itself against hit from ahead.

This is something they should re-examine.

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16 minutes ago, skull_122_steel said:

ohh those are just the "skilled" players thinking that they are helping there team and then complain when no one supports the at the back of the map

Actually, the truth is that a lot of bow tankers are skilled players who know what they're doing when they're bow tanking.  That doesn't mean that it's good for the game, IMO.  Also note that quite often you'll see less skilled players copying simpler tactics from good players, and bow tanking is one of them.  Of course, a big difference between the more skilled and less skilled players is knowing how, when, and where to properly use bow tanking, and when it's time to stop and move on to a new position.

 

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You can't generalize whether sitting still is "stupid" or not. Sometimes it's the right thing to do, sometimes it isn't. Same goes for reversing.

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WG messed with bow armor back in the day.

 

I think it only lasted a few days until they changes it back.

 

A years worth of salt over a matter of days here.

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15 minutes ago, pikohan said:

You can't generalize whether sitting still is "stupid" or not. Sometimes it's the right thing to do, sometimes it isn't. Same goes for reversing.

Piko, some people will think that it's "stupid" based on how ahistorical it is.   And I don't blame them.  Sure, it can be "smart" within the context of playing the game according to the rules and mechanics as they currently exist.  But many people prefer a more historically accurate style of naval combat that's more about fire and maneuver, rather than playing WoWS as World of Sea-Tanks.

 

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I for one just do not see this tactic. All my achievements I have all state the last ship I have received them in was the GK. This includes CQE,FB,DS,IJFW,Dnt, FP,Conf,HC,Det,UnS,KU,DS,ARSON,DieH, this is kinda hard to do sitting in the back. I love getting my paint scratches,Scorched, filled with holes,broken guns. It shows I tried. And these rewards all show in my Tier 10 BB the G.K. Either you are exaggerating the amount of battles this happens or your team Draw is skewed against you { Conspiracy Theories }. I believe the first and you like jumping on the BBabies, for your own shortcomings.

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6 minutes ago, Wulfgarn said:

WG messed with bow armor back in the day.

 

I think it only lasted a few days until they changes it back.

 

A years worth of salt over a matter of days here.

If you're talking about the overmatch mechanic thing, I have to disagree.  I think that they messed up by not sticking to their guns, because what we're stuck with now is bow-tanking World of Sea-Tanks, not a naval combat World of Warships.

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True that, Crucis.    Guilty of bow tanking at times, but would prefer it not be like that.

To break that, I'll hop in Gneis, Scharnhorst, or my current favorite speeder, Giuilio Casare.    Tootin' around like a cruiser!

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BBs often sit still because map design and concealment mechanics heavily punished mobile combat in anything but well-organized team battles. 

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28 minutes ago, Crucis said:

If you're talking about the overmatch mechanic thing, I have to disagree.  I think that they messed up by not sticking to their guns, because what we're stuck with now is bow-tanking World of Sea-Tanks, not a naval combat World of Warships.

I'd push them to develop a smoother way of handling overmatch in general rather than the all or nothing system we have now. It's an artifact of the reality that the formula that they use for pen badly overestimates shell penetration at high obliquities, so there needs to be a mechanic to reduce penetration at high angles. OFC reality is that because this behavior has been learned by so many players, any changes to its viability will be met with massive backlash from the community.

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2 minutes ago, Aetreus said:

I'd push them to develop a smoother way of handling overmatch in general rather than the all or nothing system we have now. It's an artifact of the reality that the formula that they use for pen badly overestimates shell penetration at high obliquities, so there needs to be a mechanic to reduce penetration at high angles. OFC reality is that because this behavior has been learned by so many players, any changes to its viability will be met with massive backlash from the community.

And it's times like these where the Devs need to step up and call out the people "backlashing" at the devs for this.  They need to step up and explain why it would be a good thing to make the change, rather than just sit back and take it, and surrender.

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15 minutes ago, DiddleDum said:

True that, Crucis.    Guilty of bow tanking at times, but would prefer it not be like that.

To break that, I'll hop in Gneis, Scharnhorst, or my current favorite speeder, Giuilio Casare.    Tootin' around like a cruiser!

I'm also guilty of bow tanking too.  I'm not going to say that it's not a smart thing to do when the current mechanics so strongly favor using this tactic.  It'd be rather dumb to not take advantage of it if you have a ship that's well equipped to do so, even if I would prefer a more fluid, fire and maneuver play style in the game.

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1 minute ago, Crucis said:

And it's times like these where the Devs need to step up and call out the people "backlashing" at the devs for this.  They need to step up and explain why it would be a good thing to make the change, rather than just sit back and take it, and surrender.

As unfortunate as it is, the backlash complainers do have a point. The game was sold with a set of rules, and changing that out on everyone is in some ways a betrayal of that sale. It might be an important enough change to merit doing that anyways, but it is a serious consideration.

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The easiest solution would be to go full sim mode...with historical hit rates and hit effects and damage... but that'll never happen.  You'ld almost have to pay players to play!

 

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15 minutes ago, Aetreus said:

As unfortunate as it is, the backlash complainers do have a point. The game was sold with a set of rules, and changing that out on everyone is in some ways a betrayal of that sale. It might be an important enough change to merit doing that anyways, but it is a serious consideration.

Oh, hogwash.  The same could be said for almost every mechanics change that's been made, from OWFS to the smoke changes to who knows how many other changes.  This would be no different.

 

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To all Captains from , Ghostdog, Officers, Commander Skip and Chief Butkuss. We never camp or avoid confrontation.  We take the battle to the enemy . We sail our ship into harms way and fight our azzs off. We might fail and make mistakes but we are not cowards. We don't care who we are up against, what tier they are, MM Jesus or what ever the F they are. We are going to put lead in their butttz. And when they start getting us we will stand on deck and throw rocks at them. ( Hard since all the crew have paws). Ship goes down we swim our tails off to the nearest island and get picked up and await our next assignment.

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1 hour ago, Crucis said:

  Of course, a big difference between the more skilled and less skilled players is knowing how, when, and where to properly use bow tanking, and when it's time to stop and move on to a new position.

OMG so much this. Say it louder for the people in the back. 

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1 hour ago, CLUCH_CARGO said:

I for one just do not see this tactic.

In tier 9 battles in my BBs this happens frequently unfortunately when I will be surprised by 2-4 red ships who proceed to either burn me down in less than 3 minutes or I try and turn and get blapped in the same time frame.  I have a great knack for making all of the wrong decisions as I have issues 'knowing' where the red team is going.

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You are in a BB leading the charge. Suddenly in front of you and the sided and angles is a storm of HE and torpedos. You hit a full turn - YOU DIE.  In your cowardice to fight you get citadeled through your exposed side and die to torpedos fired in a wide swath.  

Sadly the best tactic is to throw full reverse and bow on tank those incoming shells and hope to reverse and stay thin to take maybe just one torp on the nose?  Maybe some teammates catch up to you and lay a wall of smoke and help draw out and split up enemy shots as you hobble backwards to your defensive line

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1 hour ago, Crucis said:

Oh, hogwash.  The same could be said for almost every mechanics change that's been made, from OWFS to the smoke changes to who knows how many other changes.  This would be no different.

Devs think differently, and with good reason. All of those changes were implemented with a great deal of caution and attention to playerbase response. They tried it, felt that with the response they got it was a mistake. You can disagree about how important it was to the gameplay, making their weighing wrong, but that weighing is absolutely real.

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