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KalishniKat

Since WG is Making Paper Battlecruisers

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Lets have something fun..like the Dutch 1047 design. At least it's more interesting than  Russian science fiction.

 

dutch_battlecruisers_by_kara_alvama-d3jrm3l.png

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the thing is the russian ship isn't paper it was laid down but never completed(10% complete before it was sold for scrap) but nevertheless we need the dutch navy tech tree in game(but not before the Italians)

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1 minute ago, skull_122_steel said:

the thing is the russian ship isn't paper it was laid down but never completed(10% complete before it was sold for scrap) but nevertheless we need the dutch navy tech tree in game(but not before the Italians)

Are there really enough Dutch designs to fill out a tree? Nothing against the Dutch Navy, they absolutely should be represented in-game, but wouldn't it make more sense to have them in a unified pan-European line combining the second-tier navies of Europe that can't fill out a tech tree on their own?

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Just now, poeticmotion said:

Are there really enough Dutch designs to fill out a tree? Nothing against the Dutch Navy, they absolutely should be represented in-game, but wouldn't it make more sense to have them in a unified pan-European line combining the second-tier navies of Europe that can't fill out a tech tree on their own?

I call upon @Lert to explain this for me

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14 minutes ago, KalishniKat said:

Lets have something fun..like the Dutch 1047 design. At least it's more interesting than  Russian science fiction.

Can we have both? Both the russian and the dutch? 

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10 minutes ago, poeticmotion said:

Are there really enough Dutch designs to fill out a tree? Nothing against the Dutch Navy, they absolutely should be represented in-game, but wouldn't it make more sense to have them in a unified pan-European line combining the second-tier navies of Europe that can't fill out a tech tree on their own?

One potentially positive thing about a pan-European tech tree could be that it would be a way to incorporate the Austro-Hungarian navy into a fuller tech tree.  That said, I'm *STILL* not that sure that WG could come up with a full line of BB without creating a bunch of truly fictional ships.  After all, once you remove the Brits, Germans, French, Italians, and Russians, there really isn't much left over for countries with navies that existed through the end of WW2 and beyond.  (Austria-Hungary dissolved after WW1, so that limits its presence unless WG wants to go all-in on a What If scenario.)

Edited by Crucis

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10 minutes ago, poeticmotion said:

Are there really enough Dutch designs to fill out a tree?

 

9 minutes ago, skull_122_steel said:

I call upon @Lert to explain this for me

Destroyers yes, with very minimal paper - all hulls at least were built in steel and served. Weapons might need some minor paper for some tiers. These are all unique designs only used by the Dutch.

Cruisers possibly, though with major paper. These are all unique designs only used by the Dutch. Lower tiers would be historical and steel, higher tiers paper.

Battleships no, but we can field a few designs around tiers 3 / 4 / 5 as premiums, designed by Brits and Germans, but specifically and only for the Dutch. These were never built though, only paper designs.

Carriers no, but we can field a few designs around tiers 3 / 5 / 6 as premiums, but these wouldn't be Dutch original designs - we borrowed and bought some from the Brits.

Read this thread for more info.

Also, all the yes on 1047.

BUZifsK.jpg

  • Cool 2

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22 minutes ago, skull_122_steel said:

the thing is the russian ship isn't paper it was laid down but never completed(10% complete before it was sold for scrap) but nevertheless we need the dutch navy tech tree in game(but not before the Italians)

That's still paper.

There are various 'grades' of paper ships:

  • Complete WG fabrication (like Hindenburg, the most paper you can get)
  • Designed at the time but rejected / never laid down (1047, Yorck)
  • Designed at the time and laid down but canceled (Kronshtadt, Imperator Nikolai I)
  • Designed at the time and laid down, but finished as something else, their original form is still 'paper' (Lexington, Akagi)

They're still all paper ships, as they never served in their designed form.

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2 minutes ago, Lert said:

That's still paper.

There are various 'grades' of paper ships:

  • Complete WG fabrication (like Hindenburg, the most paper you can get)
  • Designed at the time but rejected / never laid down (1047, Yorck)
  • Designed at the time and laid down but canceled (Kronshtadt, Imperator Nikolai I)
  • Designed at the time and laid down, but finished as something else, their original form is still 'paper' (Lexington, Akagi)

They're still all paper ships, as they never served in their designed form.

ahh ok

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15 minutes ago, Lert said:

Akagi

Actually been wondering, what ever happened to Akagi? I know she was teased in alpha ( or she was put in then removed) and since then she has disappeared.

I am curious Lert, @Pigeon_of_War and @SuperNikoPower is there any plans for Akagi to ever return or is she gone?

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Just now, Fog_Repair_Ship_Akashi said:

I am curious Lert, @Pigeon_of_War and @SuperNikoPower is there any plans for Akagi to ever return or is she gone?

I have 0 information about that.

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Just now, Lert said:

I have 0 information about that.

Though so but wanted to ask, since I really want to see the Kido Butai in-game.

?interpolation=lanczos-none&output-forma

Hey we have half of them in-game already; Kaga, Hiryu and Shoukaku.

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2 minutes ago, Fog_Repair_Ship_Akashi said:

Though so but wanted to ask, since I really want to see the Kido Butai in-game.

Yes yes that's all fine and dandy, but what about 1047? :D

quk6ij4.jpg

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Just now, Lert said:

Yes yes that's all fine and dandy, but what about 1047? :D

quk6ij4.jpg

Oh I'm sure she will come, after all Haida is coming at some point.

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55 minutes ago, KalishniKat said:

Lets have something fun..like the Dutch 1047 design. At least it's more interesting than  Russian science fiction.

 

dutch_battlecruisers_by_kara_alvama-d3jrm3l.png

Sorry, no russian flag

 

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58 minutes ago, skull_122_steel said:
1 hour ago, skull_122_steel said:

the thing is the russian ship isn't paper it was laid down but never completed(10% complete before it was sold for scrap) but nevertheless we need the dutch navy tech tree in game(but not before the Italians)

 

Edit: Lert replied while I was writing this (and eating dinner) so I'll have to read his dutch tech tree post, it may address or invalidate my thoughts here, especially since he knows the Dutch Navy well and I only have a passing familiarity.

Destroyers:  They've already modeled one since Gadjah Mada from the Pan-Asian line was originally Dutch. But I see some issues. You have three designs that are probably workable as-is, with only normal balancing. You have one design that would need major gimmicks to work, and two more for high-tier that would need a completely fictional refit (because no torps and light guns.)

Low tier (tiers 2-5:)

Wolf class: WWI design, a contemporary of tier 4 and 5 DDs in-game. But armament would be an issue; 4x1 75mm guns and two torpedo tubes isn't going to cut it. At best, a tier 3 design, and to make that work they'd have to do some sort of torp reload booster or something similar. 

Admiralen class: Much closer to a workable design for the WoWS meta. 4x1 120mm guns, 2x3 torps, she would fit in at tier 4-5. 

Mid-tier (tiers 6-7)

Gerald Callenburgh class: Call it a tier 6, 5 120mm guns and 2x4 torps, she'd play similar to the Gadjah Mada.

Tjerk Hiddes: This ship is in game as the Gadjah Mada (she was sold to Indonesia after the war), so figure she could be a tier 7 with normal torps. She was a British design.

High-tier: 

High-tier would be problematic. Her immediately post-war DDs, the Holland and Friesland classes, might work, the Friesland-class was even based on the Gearing, but they were anti-sub designs, with no torpedoes and only light gun loadouts. They'd need a fictional refit to even remotely work in WoWS; both classes included a 2x2 120mm gun battery which even with their high ROF wouldn';t be enough, and they;d have to include torpedoes somehow. (Edit: Lert pointed out in his thread that the Frieslands did carry torps for a time as an experiment, which removes my objection and makes me want one because the Frieslands sound amazing given the info he included)

Cruisers: You could probably piece together a line here but it would be difficult. 

You have the two Tromp-class...you could probably split that and cover two tiers with it since the two Tromps had very different armament (both had 2x3 torps, but the Tromp had a gun battery of 3x2 150mm guns and her sister had 10x102mm (Atlanta analogue, anyone?)

De Ruyter: She's notable enough to be a premium ship, which makes including her in a tech tree line an issue as she was the only ship of her class. And I don't see her fitting above tier 5 with that light 7x150mm armament, especially with no torps to back that up. 

Java class: Heavier armament at 10x150mm guns, at least, although also older (WWI). There were plans for a major refit including changing to a 4x2 150mm battery in superfiring turrets, so Java would work in mid-tiers. 

De Zeven Provincien was a 1950s design, but certainly no more out of place than the Chapeyevs or Kutuzov in-game. And you could use the same model for a premium with the Almirante Grau, which was the last gun cruiser in the world to be decommissioned in 2017 (she had been sold to the Peruvian Navy and served there for decades). Call it a potential tier 7.

So destroyers: You have 3-5 real ships and some major holes. Cruisers: You have 5 real ships, but tiering would be an issue, as I don't see anything here over a tier 7 and all 5 of those ships really belong in tier 4-6. Plus I'd leave out De Ruyter and use her as a premium. No BBs to speak of other than the 1047 design. Still think it'd be better to include the Dutch ships in a pan-European line. 

Edited by poeticmotion

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25 minutes ago, Fog_Repair_Ship_Akashi said:

Actually been wondering, what ever happened to Akagi? I know she was teased in alpha ( or she was put in then removed) and since then she has disappeared.

I am curious Lert, @Pigeon_of_War and @SuperNikoPower is there any plans for Akagi to ever return or is she gone?

Perhaps it will arrive as a T8 Premium to counter the Enterprise.

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34 minutes ago, Wulfgarn said:

I wonder what gimmick they would have?

Historically the Dutch ships had very modern fire control for their tonnage / firepower, so a 'gimmick' could be comfortable and accurate gunnery, perhaps with hydro / radar.

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KronshtadtUnderConstruction1June1942.jpg

1942 Luftwaffe reconnaissance photo of the Kronshtadt under construction. Unfortunately, she wasn't completed and hull was scrapped in 1947.

Edited by ExplosiveDumpling

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Please... both Kronshtadt & Stalingrad were all laid down, under construction but never completed due to change in leadership. Please do your homework better than this before spewing out nonsense.

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As Xero said both had actual metal cut for them, which is more than can be said for that.

If you wanted to make a point you should have used the Alaska. The only large cruiser/battlecruiser 2.0 to actually enter service.

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Seeing as how the Eagles won and WG is making Paper ships...... I want a Klingon Bird of Prey

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