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Xwing_Red1

Graphical modifications witch hunt

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Really, WG forum staff, What is gone wrong with you?

 

After 2 yerar, you are suddenly, deleting threads about ship skins and enforcing the "waiting approval", because , as far a I kow, you are not agree with "historical representation", because of certain flags with certain cross and a rising sun, . Plus you deleted threads from long time authors (TheStarSlayer, Afrinda, Edelweisse, zFireWyvern, etc.) I don't think that authors form such skins violated the rules, becase they always offer alternative versions of their skins without such flags. And now, Tanz is closing his thread.

 

 

This looks like a some sort of witch hunt, and you must stop NOW!

 

 

 

 

 

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*twitch*

WG operates internationally, with identical content on all servers. Some countries WG operates in have depictions of the swastika legally banned and punishable by serious fines and / or jail time. WG does not have a witch hunt on skins, it's distancing itself from links to content possibly illegal in some countries they operate in.

"But I live in America!"

Yeah, well, WG doesn't.

"But I should be able to use whatever mod / skin I want!"

Yep! You are free to do exactly that. Just don't expect WG to host links to it.

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1 minute ago, Lert said:

*twitch*

WG operates internationally, with identical content on all servers. Some countries WG operates in have depictions of the swastika legally banned and punishable by serious fines and / or jail time. WG does not have a witch hunt on skins, it's distancing itself from links to content possibly illegal in some countries they operate in.

"But I live in America!"

Yeah, well, WG doesn't.

"But I should be able to use whatever mod / skin I want!"

Yep! You are free to do exactly that. Just don't expect WG to host links to it.

Indeed.

Indeed, but we are talking about graphical mods that are client side only. Plus, modders always offer alternate versions without such flags. Plus. it is not like we are asking to WG to put them in the game officialy. 

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2 minutes ago, Xwing_Red1 said:

Indeed, but we are talking about graphical mods that are client side only. Plus, modders always offer alternate versions without such flags. Plus. it is not like we are asking to WG to put them in the game officialy. 

But WG would still be hosting links to that content on their servers. Why is that so hard to get?

Let me put it this way. What if I post a link to animal abuse videos on this forum? I mean, it's not like I'm asking WG to get into the animal abuse business. But I bet that people would understand if WG deleted my links ....

Allowing links to certain content to remain on their own, privately hosted, internationally accessible forums, is only one small teensy tiny step below officially condoning said content.

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2 minutes ago, Lert said:

But WG would still be hosting links to that content on their servers. Why is that so hard to get?

Let me put it this way. What if I post a link to animal abuse videos on this forum? I mean, it's not like I'm asking WG to get into the animal abuse business. But I bet that people would understand if WG deleted my links ....

Allowing links to certain content to remain on their own, privately hosted, internationally accessible forums, is only one small teensy tiny step below officially condoning said content.

 

It nost hard to understand, and that is precisely why modder allways offer "Free flag version" with a text explaining that is their creation and WG has nothing to do about it. On the other hand, I know folks that are offended by the "hammer and sickle"... and some other by the "texas lone star camo". And no, Videos about animals are not a good comparison.

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2 minutes ago, Xwing_Red1 said:

 and WG has nothing to do about it.

They'd.

Still.

Be.

Hosting.

A.

Link.

On.

Their.

Server.

And it's not a matter of people getting 'offended', it's a matter of hosting links to content with swastikas could cost WG millions of euros in court costs.

You claim that ...

2 minutes ago, Xwing_Red1 said:

It nost hard to understand

but apparently it is.

 

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1 minute ago, Xwing_Red1 said:

. And no, Videos about animals are not a good comparison.

Actually, it is a good comparison because both are illegal.  Publishing a 'clean version' alongside the illegal version doesn't change anything.

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Just more political fuckery, nothing to see here. Feel bad for Tanz though, his skins were top notch.

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Is the Rising Sun flag also banned or are people just assuming? Because there is no legitimate reason for refusing to host mods which feature the Rising Sun. Unlike the swastika there are no legal issues for WG to worry about. 

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1 minute ago, Big_Spud said:

Just more political fuckery, nothing to see here. Feel bad for Tanz though, his skins were top notch.

 

Dude... What politics? That is only in your mind.

9 minutes ago, kerensky914 said:

Actually, it is a good comparison because both are illegal.  Publishing a 'clean version' alongside the illegal version doesn't change anything.

That is why "Disclaimer text" should always by provide it. and yet you are forgeting the "client side only".

 

11 minutes ago, Lert said:

They'd.

Still.

Be.

Hosting.

A.

Link.

On.

Their.

Server.

And it's not a matter of people getting 'offended', it's a matter of hosting links to content with swastikas could cost WG millions of euros in court costs.

You claim that ...

but apparently it is.

 

Like taking trying to sue an artists because publcc don't undertand  the difference between "private exhibition" and... wel, "public exhibition".

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One begs the question on why this is occuring now.  The links to those mods have been available since forever, and now suddenly...  Any uneasiness one may feel, and any legal consequences - perceived or otherwise - was always there from the beginning.

Given the current international political climate, particularly that against the Russian government, and that unfortunate business about arresting political opposition to Putin, it's almost as though someone at WG was impressed to make this decision about visual mods for political reasons.

 

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3 minutes ago, Xwing_Red1 said:

That is why "Disclaimer text" should always by provide it. and yet you are forgeting the "client side only".

Disclaimer texts have zero legal power, especially when hosting links to illegal content. The only time they do is when protecting companies when the dumb and stupid citizenry hurt themselves by misusing products.

I'm sorry you don't see this. I really am. It really is just a PC-gone-too-far witch hunt to you is it, and you know better than WGs own legal team, I'm sure. Hell, maybe you can send in a job application, solve all WGs legal problems, because you have all the solutions.

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3 minutes ago, Kuckoo said:

One begs the question on why this is occuring now.

That, I don't know. Maybe the critical mass of complaints was reached. Maybe they got a legal warning. I was not there, I don't know.

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Wow, so many people upset over something so trivial. You can still use the mod if you wish, that hasn't changed.

The only change is that WG won't host any links to it or images of it. Big deal. The modmaker can EASILY host their files for download.... anywhere else. There are countless, and FREE, methods for doing so.

WG is seeking to comply with the law, it doesn't matter if you agree with it or not. 

Get over it.

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26 minutes ago, Lert said:

But WG would still be hosting links to that content on their servers. Why is that so hard to get?

Let me put it this way. What if I post a link to animal abuse videos on this forum? I mean, it's not like I'm asking WG to get into the animal abuse business. But I bet that people would understand if WG deleted my links ....

Allowing links to certain content to remain on their own, privately hosted, internationally accessible forums, is only one small teensy tiny step below officially condoning said content.

On their NA server. Why you really equating harmless (and historically accurate, well designed) mods to animal abuse? Everything on the internet is internationally accessible that doesn't mean we should delete all of it just because one authoritarian entity tells us to, is that your argument?

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Just now, NeoRussia said:

On their NA server. Why you really equating harmless (and historically accurate, well designed) mods to animal abuse? Everything on the internet is internationally accessible that doesn't mean we should delete all of it just because one authoritarian entity tells us to, is that your argument?

The fact that is it an NA server doesn't make a whit of difference.  WG does business in Germany.  They've obviously been told they have to disassociate from this content or they're gonna get hammered in German courts.  The fact that you or I don't like this fact means literally zero.

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Just now, NeoRussia said:

On their NA server.

WG is a global company with globally identical content. Even the forums are available to people outside the region - I connect from the NL.

1 minute ago, NeoRussia said:

Why you really equating harmless (and historically accurate, well designed) mods to animal abuse?

Only inasmuch as that it's content deemed illegal in certain areas WG operates.

1 minute ago, NeoRussia said:

Everything on the internet is internationally accessible that doesn't mean we should delete all of it just because one authoritarian entity tells us to, is that your argument?

Only if you want to operate in regions where such content is illegal. I mean, you'd have to be monumentally stupid not to.

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Folks I'm going to leave this particular thread open to discuss the topic.  Here is what will close it:

  • Insults towards WG staff or other players.
  • Off topic posting.
  • Any political discussion

 

We'll provide some updates to our rules as soon as possible.  Please stay compliant to avoid being moderated and allow this discussion to continue.

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I'm just dropping to let @Lert know that I'm sorry OP does not see the clarity of what @Lert has posted.  Open your own server/game and host what you want on it (become like MegaVideo or PirateBay). Better off getting away with stuff (legal issues) to create it on darkweb though :)

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So wait... @Radar_X... Is it confirmed that these mods are why we got first warnings in January? 

 

Customer Service wouldn’t even help us figure out what we’re doing wrong. 

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6 minutes ago, Radar_X said:

Folks I'm going to leave this particular thread open to discuss the topic.  Here is what will close it:

  • Insults towards WG staff or other players.
  • Off topic posting.
  • Any political discussion

 

We'll provide some updates to our rules as soon as possible.  Please stay compliant to avoid being moderated and allow this discussion to continue.

Radar, a suggestion for the future:

 

If this situation comes up again, before any action is taken outline the updated rules to the community at large and then communicate with the users who are being affected directly (in this case mod authors). Don take unilateral action and then say "we'll get updated rules out soon", because it leads to this situation.

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1 minute ago, SkywhaleExpress said:

So wait... @Radar_X... Is it confirmed that these mods are why we got first warnings in January? 

 

Customer Service wouldn’t even help us figure out what we’re doing wrong. 

No.  This has nothing to do with warnings around mods.  We are simply removing certain images from the forums, nothing more. 

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Just now, Avalon304 said:

Radar, a suggestion for the future:

 

If this situation comes up again, before any action is taken outline the updated rules to the community at large and then communicate with the users who are being affected directly (in this case mod authors). Don take unilateral action and then say "we'll get updated rules out soon", because it leads to this situation.

 

The rules should have been updated in advance so I can't disagree with you.  I'm in the process of getting clarification and we'll have something up as soon as it's confirmed.

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3 minutes ago, Radar_X said:

No.  This has nothing to do with warnings around mods.  We are simply removing certain images from the forums, nothing more. 

Well when will we have clarification on that topic? We can’t even open a support ticket that doesn’t get closed after a simple copy/paste generic response. 

If WG is outlawing certain mods, the onus is on them to make sure we know which ones to avoid using.

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40 minutes ago, Lert said:

Disclaimer texts have zero legal power, especially when hosting links to illegal content. The only time they do is when protecting companies when the dumb and stupid citizenry hurt themselves by misusing products.

I'm sorry you don't see this. I really am. It really is just a PC-gone-too-far witch hunt to you is it, and you know better than WGs own legal team, I'm sure. Hell, maybe you can send in a job application, solve all WGs legal problems, because you have all the solutions.

Because there are different regions, and I know that each contry has different laws. And yet this is gonna sound repetitive, but these graphical mods are client side only. WG need to make clear their current postion, after all, such mods were around here  sincea long time

 

Want an example of PUBLIC game with TONS of crosses (And it is hell fun)? 

 

 

 

Edited by Xwing_Red1

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