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Battlecruiser_NewZealand

You need to stop with the battleship power creep, Wargaming

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And what I am talking about, obviously, is this rebranding of capital level battlecruisers as cruisers.

This is stupid for a number of reasons:

  • It's tantamount to admitting that the ultimate ambition of the cruiser - the role it wants to fulfill - is that of a battleship. This is ludicrous - why bother even having other classes at all if the final outgrowth of cruiser progression is just super-fast battleships with an insane amount of HP for a "cruiser"...?
  • It reduces battlecruisers to non-capital ship status. BCs were properly regarded as one of only two (and, later, with the construction of CVs, three) capital-ship types in the world. By downgrading them into "super cruisers," you are minimizing their place within the grand expanse of the naval tapestry.
  • It assumes that people who chase up cruiser trees want to actually play battleships. Oh, silly them. Guess they were wrong.
  • It also assumes that an 83,000 HP 9 x 12", 7"-belt armor "cruiser" is equal to an Ibuki in matchmaking. Or a Baltimore. Or a Neptune. Okkkayyyy.
  • It demonstrates a continued and unabated level of power battleship power creep, except that now it's infecting an entirely different ship type. We already see most MM with 5-6 BBs per team; was this not enough? Is it necessary for them to subsume top-level cruiser play as well?

The last time I checked, a lot of people who identified as "cruiser mains" liked the distinction between the two types - in fact, I would go so far as to deduce, based on the threads I see on the forums, that many of them outright DESPISE battleships, both for the pounding these players receive from them, and because of the reluctance many BBs show to push up in fights. But, hey, guess all that's out the window - we're all just one big, happy, 'battleship family,' ney?

I'd love to say I was flabbergasted by these developments. But, sadly, nothing you folks do surprises me anymore. And that's not a good thing.

 

Edited by Cruiser_Fiume
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I'm happy as long as it murders bbs

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Just now, Cruiser_Fiume said:

It is a BB. Why worry over killing what you've become?

As long as it kills ships classified as bbs I'm happy. This new Soviet ship looks like it has horrendously bad accuracy though.

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No excuse for Alaska to not be a top tier Cruiser now! :cap_haloween:

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2 minutes ago, TornadoADV said:

No excuse for Alaska to not be a top tier Cruiser now! :cap_haloween:

Why is Hood a battleship?

Why is Myogi a battleship?

Why is Ishizuchi a battleship?

Why is Dunkerque a battleship?

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1 minute ago, Cruiser_Fiume said:

Why is Hood a battleship?

Why is Myogi a battleship?

Why is Ishizuchi a battleship?

Why is Dunkerque a battleship?

Reasons

Reasons

Reasons

Reasons

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I mean... this to Ibuki is basically the same as Musashi to Izumo, and nobody complained about that?

 

 

Not that I don't think this is a little ridiculous, but let's also see how it plays.

 

 

As far as classification goes, I would say it doesn't really matter given that there's DDs that aren't DDs and BBs that aren't BBs already.

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1 minute ago, Cruiser_Fiume said:

Why is Hood a battleship?

Why is Myogi a battleship?

Why is Ishizuchi a battleship?

Why is Dunkerque a battleship?

They were all designed from the outset as battlecruisers or in Dunkerque's case, a battleship.

Hood was originally designed as a battlecruiser, but had armor added everywhere during her construction, the Royal Navy not wanting a repeat of Jutland, making her more fast battleship than battlecruiser with all the armor they added.

Myogi and Ishizuchi were candidate designs for Kongou, when she was originally envisioned as a battlecruiser, well before her up-armoring later her in her life, which made her a battleship.

Dunkerque was a battleship designed for the express purpose of countering the Graf Spee and her ilk.

Now, I think you should understand, as time went, each successive class of cruiser became bigger and bigger, pressuring all of the navies of the world to come up with bigger and better cruisers of their own. The only thing that slowed this down was the naval treaties between WW1 and WW2 that limited ship tonnage and armament. Once WW2 was underway, those treaties were quickly forgotten and cruisers quickly grew in size again. As much as the evolution of the battleships  culminated in the Yamato class battleships, the evolution of the cruisers culminated in the Alaska and the B-65.

Get your panties out of a twist, seriously. For one thing, what do you think the Moskva is? It even says in her description that she was designed specifically to be bigger and better than any other cruiser afloat. What of the Graf Spee, are the other tier 6 cruisers equal to her and her 11" guns (the same found on the Scharnhorst)?

Battle cruisers and heavy cruisers aren't meant to be in the line of battle as the battleships (battleships get their name from the shortening of the phrase "line of battle ship"). They are meant to run around performing other missions, or skirmishes with other cruisers and destroyers, maintaining the necessary high speed to do so, whilst also packing the firepower to out-gun their adversary. Jutland provides a pretty graphic reason as to why battle cruisers shouldn't party with the battleships.

Who said that you had to climb to tier 10? I have seen and heard of many players who get to a certain tier other than tier 10, and just stay their because they enjoy that particular ship/tier, or that they don't like the higher tiers.

 

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5 minutes ago, sulghunter331 said:

Myogi and Ishizuchi were candidate designs for Kongou, when she was originally envisioned as a battlecruiser, well before her up-armoring later her in her life, which made her a battleship.

 

So, because Kongo was rebuilt in the 1930s (and acquired the dubious status of "battleship"), that means Myogi and Ishizuchi were... too? Even though the latter is clearly a stock circa 1910-ish vessel?

spock-logic.jpg

 

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35 minutes ago, Cruiser_Fiume said:

Why is Hood a battleship?

Why is Myogi a battleship?

Why is Ishizuchi a battleship?

Why is Dunkerque a battleship?

There is a difference between a battlecruiser and a fast battleship. Dunk was designed and built as a fast battleship. Same as her sister. The Iowas were labeled as fast battleships, you going to call them battlecruisers too?

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1 minute ago, Cruiser_Fiume said:

So, because Kongo was rebuilt in the 1930s (and acquired the dubious status of "battleship"), that means Myogi and Ishizuchi were... too? Even though the latter is clearly a stock circa 1910-ish vessel?

I never said that. Was it not your argument that battle cruisers are at the same level as battleships (which both of them

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1 hour ago, Cruiser_Fiume said:

 

  • It assumes that people who chase up cruiser trees want to actually play battleships. Oh, silly them. Guess they were wrong.
  • It also assumes that an 83,000 HP 9 x 12", 7"-belt armor "cruiser" is equal to an Ibuki in matchmaking. Or a Baltimore. Or a Neptune. Okkkayyyy.

 

 

Ive ignored most of your points because theyre irrelevant rambing that doesnt actually matter. But for the two I have left...

 

1. If these cruisers are a split branch coming off the tier 8... then people can still chase regular cruisers. Having an option doesnt stop people from choosing to ignore that option.

 

2. No it does not. The matchmaker is more than capable of matching Kronsthadt against Kronsthadt (or Alaska when it comes). World of Tanks already does this, but matching tanks like a Maus against tanks like an E 100 or Type 5, despite them all being "heavy tanks" to the game.

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2 hours ago, Cruiser_Fiume said:

The last time I checked, a lot of people who identified as "cruiser mains" liked the distinction between the two types - in fact, I would go so far as to deduce, based on the threads I see on the forums, that many of them outright DESPISE battleships, both for the pounding these players receive from them, and because of the reluctance many BBs show to push up in fights

That's me. I like to drive Cruisers, not some slightly watered down hunka junk BB variant. Classifying watered down BBs as CAs is just going to mean even fewer real Cruisers in matches where we're already outnumbered by BBs. And those things are going to be worthless for hunting the DDs that the BB drivers are so skeered of.

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2 hours ago, Cruiser_Fiume said:

So, because Kongo was rebuilt in the 1930s (and acquired the dubious status of "battleship"), that means Myogi and Ishizuchi were... too? Even though the latter is clearly a stock circa 1910-ish vessel?

spock-logic.jpg

 

The Myogi c hull has the same ish upgrade as kongo to become a fast battleship. Ishizuchi however would make an insane CB that counts as a ca in game.

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