Jump to content
You need to play a total of 5 battles to post in this section.
Airglide2

So I just found out Normandie goes 28kts...

34 comments in this topic

Recommended Posts

Members
702 posts
9,924 battles

I don't know how this alluded me.  Sure I don't pay attention to every single stat, but damn.  How the heck is this possible?  From skimming over wiki, there is a hybrid engine involved, but was never created?  So how can we be sure it would have worked?

  • Boring 1
  • Bad 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4,007
[ABDA]
Beta Testers
16,017 posts
11,538 battles
Just now, Airglide2 said:

I don't know how this alluded me.  Sure I don't pay attention to every single stat, but damn.  How the heck is this possible?  From skimming over wiki, there is a hybrid engine involved, but was never created?  So how can we be sure it would have worked?

The same way Bayern makes 25 knots.  Fantasy.

  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1,363
[HINON]
[HINON]
Members
4,925 posts
6,423 battles
6 minutes ago, Airglide2 said:

I don't know how this alluded me.  Sure I don't pay attention to every single stat, but damn.  How the heck is this possible?  From skimming over wiki, there is a hybrid engine involved, but was never created?  So how can we be sure it would have worked?

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1,433
[REVY]
Members
6,010 posts
5,102 battles
6 minutes ago, Airglide2 said:

I don't know how this alluded me.  Sure I don't pay attention to every single stat, but damn.  How the heck is this possible?  From skimming over wiki, there is a hybrid engine involved, but was never created?  So how can we be sure it would have worked?

You can find more complaining here.

 

French engines have a secret weapon.

zRFGPhX.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Members
702 posts
9,924 battles
1 minute ago, Sventex said:

You can find more complaining here.

 

French engines have a secret weapon.

zRFGPhX.jpg

Yeah thanks Sventex, was searching for something related to the topic, but nothing came up.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1,415
[5BS]
Members
4,458 posts

IDK... I've been thinking for a while on this and IDK.

It COULD go 28 knots... I mean assuming tip-top engineering systems (engines, translations, turbines, gears ect.) (not looking at in game stats AT ALL btw)

Things that work in it's favor (of reaching 28 knots):

Super long skeg; they can assist in stream lining and help dramatically in returning laminar flow

LB Ratio (length to beam) of 6.7 (for a scale, the Iowa's is ~8, which is abnormally high (only subs are typically ever that high) and the Yamato's is 6.7 (and it was capable of 28 knots), which is normative of a late period BB, NC's was 6.7 for example)

Smooth Entrance; underside curvature allows a smooth entrance up-and-down in the water, which means the water moves quickly aft as the ship moves, allowing for less turbulent flow; this is something that the USN totally ignored, typically, the RN only cared about on Cruisers and some CC's, and the IJN perfected to a T.

Torpedo bulges are very streamlined to the hull and are small; going to aid in entrance and flow, very important for speed maintenance in rough seas

Things working against it:

VERY VERY wide prop radius; now I'd argue, overall for a ship, this is a good thing, as it means a ship will maneuver faster, lose less speed in a turn, and can rely less on rudder position and more on adjusting revolutions, but for speed, these act like a huge baffle behind the ship and cause severe turbulence right when you want Laminar flow to start returning; the USN, IJN, and RN typically allowed for such a negative as they preferred tight radius of action, others, not so much.

Too much horsepower for a ship that size; this seems counter intuitive, and in game, it is, but in reality you can have too much horsepower and start to have negative effects. You start to pick up vibrations which add a turbulent micro-layer between your ship and your control volume and it can cost you as much as 2 knots (since it encompasses your entire hull). Depending on how they were mounted, I would assume the Lyons would have been very rough rides, and extremely uncomfortable to be high in the ship (acts like a tuning fork).

Believe it or not as nautical engineers we rarely ever care about this (as it is order*s* of magnitude less in contributory) BUT the steamling of the above water line super structure is likely to cost this ship a knot. As I said, we generally don't care as if the force of the super structure working against you is measured in kN, the force of the ocean working against you is typically in the gN, but it CAN be a problem at times and in this case, it MAY have been.

But, overall, as a Nautical engineer, nothing on this ship seems impossibly preventing such as a speed. Ships with similar features were capable of reaching these speeds: Nagatos, NC's, SC's, all had similar (6.7 ish) LB ratios and that's more of a deciding factor in speed than almost anything else. Machinery can be hammered out, that just costs money, but if you can get your LB ratio above 6-ish you should see speeds in the high 20's.

 

 

  • Cool 4
  • Bad 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Members
2,748 posts
6,229 battles
1 hour ago, crzyhawk said:

The same way Bayern makes 25 knots.  Fantasy

Exactly, 23 tops.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1,311
[-Y-]
Alpha Tester
4,440 posts
6,631 battles

The same way the Monarch, Montana, and other fantasies have their stats.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
95
[PVE]
Members
493 posts
4,066 battles

This is a game and slow ships (like the early USN BBs) are boring. I like 28 knots even if it is magic.

Edit: so far up to NM I have enjoyed the USN BBs but I enjoyed the faster IJN BBs more.

Edited by MasterDiggs

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
898
[LEGIO]
Members
2,956 posts
5,370 battles
16 minutes ago, nuttybiscuit said:

The same way the Monarch, Montana, and other fantasies have their stats.

Except Montana was almost built and had a design that would have been able to achieve 28 knots. Normandie doing it is pure fantasy.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1,311
[-Y-]
Alpha Tester
4,440 posts
6,631 battles
2 minutes ago, Lampshade_M1A2 said:

Except Montana was almost built and had a design that would have been able to achieve 28 knots. Normandie doing it is pure fantasy.

design speeds and real speeds are rarely the same. If the hull would have been theoretically capable of attaining 28 knots, there is no guarantee, as with any boat/ship, the machinery/prop arrangement would have made that a reality. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
192
[AR15]
Members
393 posts
2,779 battles

Since the engine was never created it could go any speed.

Heck I heard it could do the Kessel run in less than 12 parsecs.

60313278.jpg

Edited by JToney3449
  • Funny 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
898
[LEGIO]
Members
2,956 posts
5,370 battles
Just now, nuttybiscuit said:

design speeds and real speeds are rarely the same. If the hull would have been theoretically capable of attaining 28 knots, there is no guarantee, as with any boat/ship, the machinery/prop arrangement would have made that a reality. 

Yet in Montana's case there is every reason to expect it would have been capable of 28 knots if built. Normandie was never initially designed for such a speed and look at how extensive the Italian BB rebuilds were to gain 6-7 knots. Normandie shows minimal changes compared to those.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1,311
[-Y-]
Alpha Tester
4,440 posts
6,631 battles
1 minute ago, Lampshade_M1A2 said:

Yet in Montana's case there is every reason to expect it would have been capable of 28 knots if built. Normandie was never initially designed for such a speed and look at how extensive the Italian BB rebuilds were to gain 6-7 knots. Normandie shows minimal changes compared to those.

Just because : 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2,708
[HINON]
WoWS Wiki Editor, In AlfaTesters, Beta Testers
6,498 posts
3,751 battles
1 minute ago, Lampshade_M1A2 said:

Yet in Montana's case there is every reason to expect it would have been capable of 28 knots if built. Normandie was never initially designed for such a speed and look at how extensive the Italian BB rebuilds were to gain 6-7 knots. Normandie shows minimal changes compared to those.

23275519_1503239109759113_28962090862141

Yes.... "minimal"

 

446798FranceNormandieClassAsDesigned5.pn

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1,311
[-Y-]
Alpha Tester
4,440 posts
6,631 battles
Just now, Doomlock said:

23275519_1503239109759113_28962090862141

Yes.... "minimal"

 

 knots 446798FranceNormandieClassAsDesigned5.pn

plumb bow, fine entry, a nice fat mid section with a "go fast" nip and tuck aft. Clearly designed with WOWS speed boost consumeable in mind:Smile_glasses: Hull speed for that length would have been around 28 knots anyway.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4,569
[E-E]
[E-E]
Members
15,557 posts
14,005 battles
2 hours ago, crzyhawk said:

The same way Bayern makes 25 knots.  Fantasy.

Meanwhile TX, NY, NM, AZ, CO are straddled with more realistic 21kt speeds.  Or less.

Edited by HazeGrayUnderway
  • Funny 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
507
[WOLFD]
[WOLFD]
Beta Testers
4,950 posts
1,487 battles
2 hours ago, _RC1138 said:

IDK... I've been thinking for a while on this and IDK.

It COULD go 28 knots... I mean assuming tip-top engineering systems (engines, translations, turbines, gears ect.) (not looking at in game stats AT ALL btw)

Things that work in it's favor (of reaching 28 knots):

Super long skeg; they can assist in stream lining and help dramatically in returning laminar flow

LB Ratio (length to beam) of 6.7 (for a scale, the Iowa's is ~8, which is abnormally high (only subs are typically ever that high) and the Yamato's is 6.7 (and it was capable of 28 knots), which is normative of a late period BB, NC's was 6.7 for example)

Smooth Entrance; underside curvature allows a smooth entrance up-and-down in the water, which means the water moves quickly aft as the ship moves, allowing for less turbulent flow; this is something that the USN totally ignored, typically, the RN only cared about on Cruisers and some CC's, and the IJN perfected to a T.

Torpedo bulges are very streamlined to the hull and are small; going to aid in entrance and flow, very important for speed maintenance in rough seas

Things working against it:

VERY VERY wide prop radius; now I'd argue, overall for a ship, this is a good thing, as it means a ship will maneuver faster, lose less speed in a turn, and can rely less on rudder position and more on adjusting revolutions, but for speed, these act like a huge baffle behind the ship and cause severe turbulence right when you want Laminar flow to start returning; the USN, IJN, and RN typically allowed for such a negative as they preferred tight radius of action, others, not so much.

Too much horsepower for a ship that size; this seems counter intuitive, and in game, it is, but in reality you can have too much horsepower and start to have negative effects. You start to pick up vibrations which add a turbulent micro-layer between your ship and your control volume and it can cost you as much as 2 knots (since it encompasses your entire hull). Depending on how they were mounted, I would assume the Lyons would have been very rough rides, and extremely uncomfortable to be high in the ship (acts like a tuning fork).

Believe it or not as nautical engineers we rarely ever care about this (as it is order*s* of magnitude less in contributory) BUT the steamling of the above water line super structure is likely to cost this ship a knot. As I said, we generally don't care as if the force of the super structure working against you is measured in kN, the force of the ocean working against you is typically in the gN, but it CAN be a problem at times and in this case, it MAY have been.

But, overall, as a Nautical engineer, nothing on this ship seems impossibly preventing such as a speed. Ships with similar features were capable of reaching these speeds: Nagatos, NC's, SC's, all had similar (6.7 ish) LB ratios and that's more of a deciding factor in speed than almost anything else. Machinery can be hammered out, that just costs money, but if you can get your LB ratio above 6-ish you should see speeds in the high 20's.

 

 

 

Interesting question. How does the increased speed for the frenchies compare to what the US could have done if they'd overhauled the machinery of the standards? Could they have been made to go faster or where their hulls just not up to it?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
309
[KRAB]
Members
615 posts
5,763 battles

I strongly suspect "game balance" is why these ships go 28 knots. If the Normandie has trouble slugging it out with the other BBs it will need to have mobility to compensate. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4,569
[E-E]
[E-E]
Members
15,557 posts
14,005 battles
7 minutes ago, MaxL_1023 said:

I strongly suspect "game balance" is why these ships go 28 knots. If the Normandie has trouble slugging it out with the other BBs it will need to have mobility to compensate. 

[Looks at the Standard USN BBs]

  • Cool 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
309
[KRAB]
Members
615 posts
5,763 battles
2 minutes ago, HazeGrayUnderway said:

[Looks at the Standard USN BBs]

 

The tier 7s seem fine - Colorado is better armored than Nagato (and got a HP buff recently) with about the same firepower, and both are much better armed than the faster KGV or Gneisenaeu. 

The New Mexico is also somewhat better protected than the Fuso, is only slightly slower than the QE and Bayern (with much higher DPS at the expense of overmatch) with similar armor. It might need a slight buff, but it is not that weak. 

New York does need a bit of a buff, but speed is not a huge issue at tier 5 since most battleships don't go much faster than 23-24 knots. The Kongo is an exception, and that is a Battlecruiser with weaker armor and only 8 guns. 

Wyoming is fine, its just the Orion and Nickolai are broken. It is better than Myogi and reasonable compared to the Kaiser.

South Carolina probably should get a dispersion buff or have the citadel moved inside the armor belt, but tier 3 BBs are not really played enough to get good balance information, especially since they all get CRUSHED by their tier 4 successors. 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4,007
[ABDA]
Beta Testers
16,017 posts
11,538 battles
1 hour ago, Carl said:

 

Interesting question. How does the increased speed for the frenchies compare to what the US could have done if they'd overhauled the machinery of the standards? Could they have been made to go faster or where their hulls just not up to it?

The French felt that they could get another 5 knots out of the ship if they added another 49m to the hull according to wikipedia.  That's an awful lot of hull adding though.

The USN /did/ overhaul the machinery in the standards.  They used the machinery originally ordered for the South Dakotas (BB49).  That brought them back to about the same speed as they were before they were bulged.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Members
702 posts
9,924 battles
1 hour ago, MaxL_1023 said:

I strongly suspect "game balance" is why these ships go 28 knots. If the Normandie has trouble slugging it out with the other BBs it will need to have mobility to compensate. 

Which, hell, it'd be nice to get some quotes from the devs on that, you know?

 

1 hour ago, MasterDiggs said:

This is a game and slow ships (like the early USN BBs) are boring. I like 28 knots even if it is magic.

Edit: so far up to NM I have enjoyed the USN BBs but I enjoyed the faster IJN BBs more.

I will NEVER accept that answer, "This is a game..." when I have to right of me people asking for lowering citadels to near historic levels on USN BBs and to the left of me people asking for accuracy buff on USN BBs!!

1 hour ago, nuttybiscuit said:

design speeds and real speeds are rarely the same. If the hull would have been theoretically capable of attaining 28 knots, there is no guarantee, as with any boat/ship, the machinery/prop arrangement would have made that a reality. 

Exactly!  Just because it was a "theoretical hybrid engine" so to speak, doesn't mean it can jump that high in speeds.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
95
[PVE]
Members
493 posts
4,066 battles
1 hour ago, Airglide2 said:

I will NEVER accept that answer, "This is a game..." when I have to right of me people asking for lowering citadels to near historic levels on USN BBs and to the left of me people asking for accuracy buff on USN BBs!!

To each their own. 

However, these same arguments happen in the sci-fi online games also like 'we never saw that in an episode so it shouldn't be that way in the game' or 'in the movie this thing can wreck planets how can a tiny little escort ship blow me up in the game'.

Having gotten halfway through grinding the NM, I personally don't feel like grinding such slow ships again so I won't. If the French BBs are 20 knots slow then I will skip them. No drama about it, I will just choose to play different ships. If they are 25 knots or faster I will probably eventually play the line. To each their own.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×