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OgreMkV

Smoke Rules

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Just so I understand smoke rules:

1) A cruiser in smoke can't see a DD shooting, but the DD can see the cruiser shooting.

2) A BB that hasn't fired can sometimes be seen in smoke (further than the auto-detect range). 

3) Any ship not actually in smoke can be seen, even if line of sight to all enemy ships is covered in smoke. 

4) A ship that fires and remains unseen in smoke, can leave the smoke and then be seen at its fired range, not its non-fired range. 


And before anyone says these aren't correct, be aware that this is dozens of observed events. 

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 As to # 2 and # 4 .   #2 yes a ship firing in smoke can now be detected at further ranges from firing in smoke then before , including some DD's . The new detect ranges are listed in the concealment dropdown tab .   #4 yes if it leaves the  smoke or if it dissipates before the firing gun bloom retracts as it will after about 20 seconds . This is just like if you fire at a ship beyond your concealment range but in your guns range , i. e. you are not spotted by a ship 12 Kilometers away from you but you shoot at it because your guns have a 13+ kilometer range so you then become spotted by every ship within that gun range that has line of sight to you .

As to #1 and #3 I will let others comment on as my knowledge is not up to snuff on them .

:Smile_honoring:

 

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#1 irrelevant to class. each ship has a auto detect range, and a firing from smoke spotting distance. anything in smoke cannot see out of that smoke, unless something else is spotting for it, or due to radar/hydro/planes.

#2. it takes 20 seconds for the 'just fired guns' debuff to drop and the ship to go back to its base visibility

#3 is complicated. depends on spotting aids and how far from the smoke the ships are

#4 not sure on this one. I think it should be safe, unless fired just as smoke fades, or was within base visibiliy after smoke drops.

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28 minutes ago, OgreMkV said:

Just so I understand smoke rules:

1) A cruiser in smoke can't see a DD shooting, but the DD can see the cruiser shooting.

Yes.  Cruisers incur a larger "smoke firing" penalty than destroyers do.

2) A BB that hasn't fired can sometimes be seen in smoke (further than the auto-detect range). 

Yes and no.  Keep in mind that consumables such as radar and hydro will still affect your visibility when inside smoke, and that there is a module upgrade (Target Acquisition I) available to tier VIII+ ships which increases the range of "assured acquisition" by 50%.  It's not often used, but in the case of a battleship that would be a significant increase.  Other than that, a battleship inside smoke should not be detected unless it fires (and then for the normal bloom time afterward).

3) Any ship not actually in smoke can be seen, even if line of sight to all enemy ships is covered in smoke. 

Yes, so long as a friendly ship or aircraft is spotting that ship (either visually or by the same means listed above).  The only exception being that ships which are outside of your own acquisition range (varies by ship) are not displayed until you have closed to within that range.

4) A ship that fires and remains unseen in smoke, can leave the smoke and then be seen at its fired range, not its non-fired range. 

I haven't tested this recently, but I believe that is incorrect.  I do know that when I've been smoke-firing (I play DDs a lot) my detection range as shown on the minimap remains at my "non-firing" radius.  Do keep in mind, though, that if a ship with better concealment than yours sees you leaving the smoke it can appear that you were detected by others, and that if you fire as you leave the smoke it will often result in a normal gun bloom; don't trust what's shown on the screen down to the split-second, it's usually best to stop firing 3-5 seconds before your smoke dissipates.

 

Edited by Harv72b

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In smoke, each ship has a reduced detection range. However, these ranges are different for each ship, and usually correspond do ship size and class. After you fire your main battery, that detection range goes up significantly.

Say you have a cruiser with a 12km detection radius normally. In smoke, that radius might be reduced to 6 or 7ish km. After firing the main battery in smoke, the radius may be 9ish km. Now, there is a enemy destroyer at 9 km, but the cruiser in the smoke still hasn't fired his guns (so his detection radius is still 7 km). He won't be detected.

All smoke detection ranges are different for each ship, same with the "firing in smoke" detection radius.

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1 hour ago, OgreMkV said:

1) A cruiser in smoke can't see a DD shooting, but the DD can see the cruiser shooting.

Based mostly on gun caliber, the bigger the gun, the longer the detection range through smoke.

1 hour ago, OgreMkV said:

2) A BB that hasn't fired can sometimes be seen in smoke (further than the auto-detect range). 

If it fired before entering the smoke, it will stay spotted at a longer distance till the bloom goes away. 

1 hour ago, OgreMkV said:

3) Any ship not actually in smoke can be seen, even if line of sight to all enemy ships is covered in smoke. 

Line of sight though a smoke cloud is just like being in it. If a ship is spotted, it means that some combination of four things is true, someone is in a position to see behind the smoke, an aircraft can see you over the smoke,  you have fired and increased your detection range, or you're being detected by an ability like radar or hydro.

1 hour ago, OgreMkV said:

4) A ship that fires and remains unseen in smoke, can leave the smoke and then be seen at its fired range, not its non-fired range. 

 That I do not know, it used to be, if you fired and were not spotted, your detection radius did not increase, so if you left smoke or cover, you were at the non-fired detection range. I haven't paid much attention to it.

Edited by SgtBeltfed

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1 hour ago, OgreMkV said:

Just so I understand smoke rules:

1) A cruiser in smoke can't see a DD shooting, but the DD can see the cruiser shooting.

If the DD is spotted you can see it. If it is firing you can see its shells.

2) A BB that hasn't fired can sometimes be seen in smoke (further than the auto-detect range).

All ships have a range where they can be detected no matter what. However, no ship is going to be detected at a greater distance in smoke than outside it, all other things equal.

3) Any ship not actually in smoke can be seen, even if line of sight to all enemy ships is covered in smoke.

No. If you are behind smoke but in the clear you can be concealed as well as smoke has some "height" just like an island.  

4) A ship that fires and remains unseen in smoke, can leave the smoke and then be seen at its fired range, not its non-fired range.

The detectability range (bloom) after firing differs in and out of smoke. Again, this is stated in the ship parameters. 

And before anyone says these aren't correct, be aware that this is dozens of observed events. 

Replays?

 

Edited by Snargfargle

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