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Admiral_Reeves

Normandie/lyon...What the [edited] is this WG?!?

Do you think this is okay?  

101 members have voted

  1. 1. Do you think its okay for these french BBs to go so much faster then there real designs?

    • Yes its fine for "Ballance"
      51
    • No this is bull crap.
      50

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So yeah uh...

where to even start,

Do keep in mind the higher tier ships are fine in my book.

Normandie:

In real life this ship was Built and then turned into a carrier... it went 21.5 knots... In game? In its Battleship (HEAVIER) form it goes 29.5 Knots...29.5 KNOTS... that is 8 knots to fast. that is the biggest slice of Bull crapPie they have Put out yet, at leas the other OP Ships where being Accurate to the DESIGNS!!! But this?!??! its not even its just Bull crap!

If you HAD to have such a fast ship then why not just use STRASBOURG! you know. the Donkerque's Sister ship!

Lyon:

Real life design went 23 knots... in game? 28 Knots...same God damn Issue WG...

if you are going to pull this bull crap then why not at this point make all the Standard US BBs go [edited] 25 knots at least?  Because that would Honestly Piss us off because these ships are Supposed To Be REALISTIC!

 

Sources:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Normandie-class_battleship

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lyon-class_battleship

 

edited to remove the extra moody crap

Edit: I do not actually want the US BBs to go faster its just a Example to try and state why the Normandie and Lyon shouldn't go so fast. the fact there fast isint the issue is that there going So fast..

Edited by Admiral_Reeves
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1 minute ago, Cruiser_Noshiro said:

Why are you using Wikipedia as a reference?

its the only Source Available.

and for Normandie do keep in mind that was the Carrier's speed. while it was renamed it was a Normandie class turned into a CV

 

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Why doesn't Iowa go 35? Why do other ships go faster or slower? It IS for balance. Have you seen those ships armor, it's terrible. US BBs can handle the slow speed cause of armor but these French BBs wont.

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Just now, Cruiser_Noshiro said:

Why are you using Wikipedia as a reference?

Well... probably because obscure articles generally don't see a lot of vandalism, and are typically written/edited by a combination of scholars and hobbyists. The information on Wikipedia is rarely grossly incorrect. And you have to admit that it *is* a bit silly that never-built potato-shaped battleships from impoverish post-WWI France receive hypothetical rocket-boat refits that raise their speed more than even the ULTRA DRAMATIC Italian rebuilds, while American ships that were actually built putter along at 21 knots.

He has a point.

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US Standards are handicapped by their hull design. Even if they had an engine upgrade, they wouldn't get much more speed.

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1 minute ago, Goose21891 said:

US Standards are handicapped by their hull design. Even if they had an engine upgrade, they wouldn't get much more speed.

do keep in mind that was a point i don't want them to actually get a better engine.

but Colorado would actually be able to as it only is running on 30,000HP

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4 minutes ago, Goose21891 said:

US Standards are handicapped by their hull design. Even if they had an engine upgrade, they wouldn't get much more speed.

Have you seen the shape of the hull of Normandie? It's like a loaf of bread. 

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Neither ship in-game matches the design. Both hulls are a-historical "what if" 1930s modernizations. The ships have been given Atlantic bows and been lengthened (which increases speed all on its own) and have been repowered with more powerful engines. Comparing these ships to their design stats will get you nowhere because WG has implemented them in a "what if" 1930s rebuild form.

 

(Personally I'd have preferred it if WG did at least the A hulls as historically designed (like Bayern's A hull) but whatevs)

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20 knot BBs need to stop at T4. 25 knots is okay until about T6. After that 28+ knots needs to happen. Otherwise you get left way behind like the New Mexico and the Colorado. I am completely cool with the French BB speed.

The USN standard crawl is why I started their line last.

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Just now, dseehafer said:

Neither ship in-game matches the design. Both hulls are a-historical "what if" 1930s modernizations. The ships have been given Atlantic bows and been lengthened (which increases speed all on its own) and have been repowered with more powerful engines. Comparing these ships to their design stats will get you nowhere because WG has implemented them in a "what if" 1930s rebuild form.

Fair point. but the thing is Normandie was actually built.

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Just now, Admiral_Reeves said:

Fair point. but the thing is Normandie was actually built.

 

Yes, and WG's version is a "what if, instead of turning her into an aircraft carrier, France finished her as a battleship and then rebuilt her to modern standards (like Giulio Cesare) sometime in the 1930s"

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Just now, dseehafer said:

Neither ship in-game matches the design. Both hulls are a-historical "what if" 1930s modernizations. The ships have been given Atlantic bows and been lengthened (which increases speed all on its own) and have been repowered with more powerful engines. Comparing these ships to their design stats will get you nowhere because WG has implemented them in a "what if" 1930s rebuild form.

Which, indirectly, can be seen as WG once again dumping on the American boats. Even Bayern receives a ridiculous speed advantage, despite the fact she had been scrapped by the victorious Brits. 

I'm not sure why the U.S. has to be saddled with this massively ponderous BB line "because history," but when dealing with other trees, Wargaming feels free to what-if boats into completely berserk designs. Part of the charm of the REAL refits like the Italians and Japanese was that they - to a degree - brought older battleships up to modern standards, squaring off against 1930s designs. That doesn't mean, however, that everyone but the U.S. should get to magically see a class-wide speed boost. 

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1 minute ago, Admiral_Reeves said:

Fair point. but the thing is Normandie was actually built.

The battleship was never built as far as I know. A 4 were canceled and the last was converted to CV from what was already laid down. Yes on paper 28-29 knots was possible. I just read your source and it says pretty much that.

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3 minutes ago, Cruiser_Fiume said:

Which, indirectly, can be seen as WG once again dumping on the American boats. Even Bayern receives a ridiculous speed advantage, despite the fact she had been scrapped by the victorious Brits. 

I'm not sure why the U.S. has to be saddled with this massively ponderous BB line "because history," but when dealing with other trees, Wargaming feels free to what-if boats into completely berserk designs. Part of the charm of the REAL refits like the Italians and Japanese was that they - to a degree - brought older battleships up to modern standards, squaring off against 1930s designs. That doesn't mean, however, that everyone but the U.S. should get to magically see a class-wide speed boost. 

 

Bayern's speed is fine. All WWI German BBs proved faster than their design speeds. If Konig can do almost 26kn during the battle of Jutland, Bayern can go 25kn in-game (especially refit Bayern with lengthened hull and Atlantic bow).

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1 minute ago, dseehafer said:

 

Yes, and WG's version is a "what if, instead of turning her into an aircraft carrier, France finished her as a battleship and then rebuilt her to modern standards (like Giulio Cesare) sometime in the 1930s"

hmmm yeah but a whole 8 knots? kinda Extreme and Unrealistic,

the faster a Ship the More HP Required to go an extra knot. for example. it would take about 60,000HP to make a montana go 30 knots witch is why the end design was 28 at 175,000hp

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3 minutes ago, Admiral_Reeves said:

hmmm yeah but a whole 8 knots? kinda Extreme and Unrealistic,

the faster a Ship the More HP Required to go an extra knot. for example. it would take about 60,000HP to make a montana go 30 knots witch is why the end design was 28 at 175,000hp

 

Italy's Giulio Cesare went from 21.6kn pre-rebuild to 28.6kn post-rebuild... definitely not unrealistic for a hypothetical Normandie rebuild to put on 8kn.

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2 minutes ago, Admiral_Reeves said:

hmmm yeah but a whole 8 knots? kinda Extreme and Unrealistic,

the faster a Ship the More HP Required to go an extra knot. for example. it would take about 60,000HP to make a montana go 30 knots witch is why the end design was 28 at 175,000hp

It's ludicrously unrealistic. Look at Conte di Cavour - a 21 'standard' BB that was torn down to the deck level, had a whole turret REMOVED, completely new engines installed, new bow grafted on... how many knots did she pick up? 6. The Cavours and Duilios were the most comprehensive, costly battleship rebuilds ever done, and despite the Italians almost always favoring speed above other factors, it just bumped them to 27 knots. 

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1 minute ago, Cruiser_Fiume said:

But then we get...

3AJtCdx.png

This is a Fantasy Arcade Game. All the wishes by the community piled in one hand and all the unfulfilled Wishes in the other , Care to guess which hand is full?  

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1 minute ago, Cruiser_Fiume said:

It's ludicrously unrealistic. Look at Conte di Cavour - a 21 'standard' BB that was torn down to the deck level, had a whole turret REMOVED, completely new engines installed, new bow grafted on... how many knots did she pick up? 6. The Cavours and Duilios were the most comprehensive, costly battleship rebuilds ever done, and despite the Italians almost always favoring speed above other factors, it just bumped them to 27 knots. 

 

Closer to 29kn than 27kn as 28.6kn was achieved on trials.

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3 minutes ago, dseehafer said:

 

Italy's Giulio Cesare went from 21.6kn pre-rebuild to 28.6kn post-rebuild... definitely not unrealistic for a hypothetical Normandie rebuild to put on 8kn.

27 in service. She did not exceed that outside trials. 

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