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Ricky_Racer

DAMAGE FARMER VS UNICUM

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Ok, using a Unicum here might not be a good way to compare, what makes a player good. (Because some players are really good)

I've played less than 400 random battles & I see players with WR's less than 45% WR but their profile shows a somewhat higher than average, "average damage". Is it because of LUCK OF THE DRAW, or are there players who only care about farming XP?

Question:

1) How is it possible for players who have high average damage, high average XP, but low WR's?

2) What does it take to be TOPs in a battle, sink zero ships. Cap or defend a base? etc. (besides being on a really sucked team) & still come out on top?

"THIS IS NOT MEANT AS RANT THREAD, BUT A LEARNING, EDUCATIONAL POST"

Edited by Ricky_Racer

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The way I see it:

1) Winrate is a better measure of how well you play the game

2) WTR (or other hard stats) are a better measure of how well you play a ship

You can play the game well, but drive a ship poorly, and vice-versa. Typically they go hand in hand, but sometimes they don't.

 

 

EDIT: Full disclosure, coming from a typically better damage farmer than game player :Smile_hiding:

Edited by pikohan
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1.  The damage has to be useful, contribute to an objective.  

2. Play for on objective, put your ship on the map where it has the most effect.  Spread your xp out over different ways to earn.  Contribute solid meaningful percentage damage, cap/defend, take fire/distract, get vision , shoot down planes.  

Its a lot to keep track of especially positioning yourself to do it all but thats what alows you to become better.

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1) they are most likely targeting ships that aren't having a meaningful impact on the game, but it's possible that they favor ships that aren't as effective against ships that are influencing the game, and so it takes them longer to take those ships down.

2) topping the team with 0 kills isn't hard to do. Secure a cap, do a good % of damage to a few ships and you'll probably top the team.

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Higher average damage and to an extent exp often means the players in question generally play higher tiers. The type of ships they tend to play can also influence this as BBs can have an easier time dealing damage than CAs and DDs.

Low win rate therefore likely means that they aren't helping their teams enough with this damage. Their positioning could be poor or they aren't fighting near objectives. Classic example is the sniper BB player; they sit in the back dealing some damage, but do not tank for their team or help secure objectives. The game is lost and they pick up some more damage in the end either before their lonely destruction or points end the game.

 

For your second question, damage is still the easiest way to get exp, but instead of whatever number you put up it's more the percentage of enemy ships' hp you deal. 10k damage to a BB is worth much less than 10k to a DD purely because their health pools are so different. Further, damaging higher tier opponents generally gives you more exp. Beyond that capping, defending, and shooting down planes can be a decent source of exp. There are also very small bonuses to spotting and tanking that are slightly influenced by what type of ship you are playing. Pretty much do your ship's job and do it well and you should be fine.

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I used to be in Otter in WoT and, as a result, I've seen my fair share of damage farmers. 

Now, wait. Let's be clear here. The damage farmers were AWESOME players. Best on the server. 

One clan mate I remember would deliberately pass over easy kill shots on low health tanks to get big hits on other tanks (except if he could kill-shot a purple). For an average player, that's a good way to lose a lot of games. For this guy, this was just a way to maximize damage. He was literally farming damage. Every shot he'd be thinking: "Which target can I shoot to maximize the potential damage?". Kills meant nothing to him, just damage. Winning was just something that came along naturally as a by product of collecting all that damage. 

I was a good player and I only had a handful of 10k games. This guy would be miffed if he didn't get close to 10k damage (tier 10 matches). When you're a 65% player and you feel like you're holding your platoon mate back, well, you're in the presence of a top notch player. 

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1 hour ago, Ricky_Racer said:

I see players with WR's less than 45% WR but their profile shows a somewhat higher than average, "average damage". Is it because of LUCK OF THE DRAW, or are there players who only care about farming XP?

well, im not sure which "average damage" you're looking at

different ships have different "expected" damage, a player that average 60k in a wyoming would be really scary to face, while a player that average 60k in montana flat out sucks

the account overall damage means next to nothing, average damage per ship means more

Quote

Question:

1) How is it possible for players who have high average damage, high average XP, but low WR's?

high average damage + low WR -> totally possible. these are called damage farmers, they dont care about winning, they just want to pad a not-so-valuable part of their stats

high average XP + low WR -> impossible. winning gives you an automatic 150% base XP multiplier, which would greatly increase your average XP

what you might be seeing is the use of premium accounts. premium  account also multiply your XP by 150% on your stats page, but not on the post battle scoreboard

Spoiler

examples:

say i do the work that is worth 1000base XP

i win + no premium account = 1500base XP on scoreboard + 1500XP on my stats page

i win + yes premium account = 1500base XP on scoreboard + 2250XP on my stats page

i lose + no premium account = 1000base XP on scoreboard + 1000XP on my stats page 

i lose + yes premium account = 1000base XP on scoreboard + 1500XP on my stats page 

 

Quote

2) What does it take to be TOPs in a battle, sink zero ships. Cap or defend a base? etc. (besides being on a really sucked team) & still come out on top?

caps and defends do give a good amount of XP

sinking gives you the same XP as damage like 15% of the ship's XP (i am super unsure about this number, if someone knows please correct me)

but ultimately scores are based off % damage, the person that deals more % HP of damage gets higher XP

Spoiler

again i am super not sure about that percentage, but the whole idea is the same

let there be 2 players, A and B, A do damage B do the kill

5 enemy ship, A took 90% HP from all of them, B get all the finishing blow

A -> 90*5 = 450% HP worth of XP

B -> (10[damage dealt]+15[sinking bonus])*5 = 125% HP worth of XP

A's XP >> B's XP, A will probably top scoreboard with 0 kill

 

then there's the concept of %damage vs damage number

damaging a DD gives you high% but low number, unfortunately all you see on stats page is raw number

Spoiler

T10 battleships average about 100k HP, T10 destroyers average about 20k (ignoring heal,  rough estimate)

cruiser player A average 40k per game, solely from DD (valuable damage)

cruiser player B average 60k per game, solely from BB (garbage damage)

A eats 2 whole DDs alive per game, this is an enormous contribution to his team, unfortunately "only" 40k average damage on his stats page

B does only 60% of 1 BB's HP per game, pretty much useless to his team, but "high" average damage on his stats page

 

 

Edited by jason199506
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36 minutes ago, pikohan said:

The way I see it:

1) Winrate is a better measure of how well you play the game

2) WTR (or other hard stats) are a better measure of how well you play a ship

You can play the game well, but drive a ship poorly, and vice-versa. Typically they go hand in hand, but sometimes they don't.

 

 

EDIT: Full disclosure, coming from a typically better damage farmer than game player :Smile_hiding:

^ This.

Higher than average damage can mean that you shoot more accurate. That you spread the hurt around, and that you make it easier for your teammates to finish off the leftovers. Strategic finesse is a different part of the game and can be accomplished sometimes without doing any damage at all. Ideally one figures out both. 

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Lack of uber stats can indicate selfless players that go in for the team win vs the padding of stats.

56 minutes ago, Ricky_Racer said:

Question:

1) How is it possible for players who have high average damage, high average XP, but low WR's?

2) What does it take to be TOPs in a battle, sink zero ships. Cap or defend a base? etc. (besides being on a really sucked team) & still come out on top?

the answer to this is for you to be worried about your Epeen. If you run and let your team take the damage....if you refuse to take a cap because the red team has 1 radar ship...

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19 hours ago, Ricky_Racer said:

1) How is it possible for players who have high average damage....but low WR's?

 

Fire damage counts as damage on a player's score...but it can be 100% repaired!!!!  Someone can do a LOT of fire damage, but if the opponent knows how to manage it, it's net effect on the win can be negligible.  I'm not saying HE is bad.  It has its uses...and those who know how to burn someone down...yeah...it can really be effective.  But it can also result in a lot of damage done to a ship that...in aggregate...doesn't do much for the win.  

Edited by Soshi_Sone
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Some ships are just impossible to win in, because they have no carrying capacity.

To come out on top, usually I will end up doing tons of damage, earning confederate and high caliber

2 or more caps will further cement that.

Edited by MrDeaf

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46 minutes ago, Apewar said:

Lack of uber stats can indicate selfless players that go in for the team win vs the padding of stats.

the answer to this is for you to be worried about your Epeen. If you run and let your team take the damage....if you refuse to take a cap because the red team has 1 radar ship...

A selfless player that isn't "selfish" shouldnt have a 50% wr ratio like most who like to think they are do

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1 hour ago, DingBat said:

I used to be in Otter in WoT and, as a result, I've seen my fair share of damage farmers. 

Now, wait. Let's be clear here. The damage farmers were AWESOME players. Best on the server. 

One clan mate I remember would deliberately pass over easy kill shots on low health tanks to get big hits on other tanks (except if he could kill-shot a purple). For an average player, that's a good way to lose a lot of games. For this guy, this was just a way to maximize damage. He was literally farming damage. Every shot he'd be thinking: "Which target can I shoot to maximize the potential damage?". Kills meant nothing to him, just damage. Winning was just something that came along naturally as a by product of collecting all that damage. 

I was a good player and I only had a handful of 10k games. This guy would be miffed if he didn't get close to 10k damage (tier 10 matches). When you're a 65% player and you feel like you're holding your platoon mate back, well, you're in the presence of a top notch player. 

A lot of this attitude can come while you're driving a ultra high alpha vehicle in WoT, like a TD or, before the latest arty nerf, an arty.  It's understandable for a vehicle that could do like 1k or even 2k alpha damage (which is huge in WoT) to hate wasting a shot on a low damage target, particularly since the higher the alpha damage for the vehicle, the longer the reload.  Of course, understandable doesn't always equal the smart thing to do.  Sometimes the kills are important, not from a stat padding perspective but from an enhance your team's chances of winning perspective.  Sometimes a certain tank NEEDS to get dead ASAP, even if it has only a single HP.  (Do you really want to leave that 70% WR super-unicum alive in his top tier, 1 HP remaining tank?  I'd hope not.)

Of course, OTOH, sometimes you can read a map and see that the gravely wounded vehicle will be dying within a second or two, simply because there are enough of your team mates around to get the job done, and they don't need you to do it for them.  The same is true in WoWS.

 

 

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