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Madwolf05

Limiting Ship Numbers: How Less is More

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We've seem many changes in meta across the games history, but is the solution to morw fluid and less passive metas due to too many ships of any one type?

Here's the theory: Destroyers exist proportionally to Battleships, and passiveness is directly related to passiveness. Cruisers are force multipliers that largely prevent damage from Destroyers, but do not largely discourage their numbers. CVs don't affect passiveness, like Cruisers, directly, but limit vision which causes passiveness.

So the theory would be, limit Battleships, Destroyers, and Cruisers to 4 ships a match, and CVs to 1.

In cases where CVs exist, Cruisers get the 4 ship preference over DDs since they counter CVs, and the free up DDs to actually do more as the game progresses. Since CVs hurt BBs more than DDs more reliably, BBs get the nod over DDs as well. This keeps BBs from being overwhelmed.

While DDs may face less CVs, it creates an overall less frustrating experience for them since they're more likely to be in games where they're less restricted by CVs aircraft.

This will help Cruiser survival as well, preventing them being pinched from so many targets that they cannot angle against nor kill quickly, while also making the game flow at a slightly quicker pace and present more tactical and strategic choices for each captain with the more dynamic gameplay.

In times of low population MM woukd revert to the current method.

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I don't seen any reason for this not to be implemented, other than queueueueue times. If there's a surplus of <insert ship type here> and a deficiency of <insert other ship type here> you'd get people insta-popping the moment they enter queueueue and other people waiting for 5 minutes and getting more MM flushes.

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I enjoy the variety that comes from ship makeup varying so much from one game to the next.  A 2 BB / 5 CA / 5 DD game is very different from a 1 CV / 7 BB / 3 CA / 1 DD game.  Is that a bad thing?  In my opinion, no.

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26 minutes ago, Madwolf05 said:

We've seem many changes in meta across the games history, but is the solution to morw fluid and less passive metas due to too many ships of any one type?

Here's the theory: Destroyers exist proportionally to Battleships, and passiveness is directly related to passiveness. Cruisers are force multipliers that largely prevent damage from Destroyers, but do not largely discourage their numbers. CVs don't affect passiveness, like Cruisers, directly, but limit vision which causes passiveness.

So the theory would be, limit Battleships, Destroyers, and Cruisers to 4 ships a match, and CVs to 1.

In cases where CVs exist, Cruisers get the 4 ship preference over DDs since they counter CVs, and the free up DDs to actually do more as the game progresses. Since CVs hurt BBs more than DDs more reliably, BBs get the nod over DDs as well. This keeps BBs from being overwhelmed.

While DDs may face less CVs, it creates an overall less frustrating experience for them since they're more likely to be in games where they're less restricted by CVs aircraft.

This will help Cruiser survival as well, preventing them being pinched from so many targets that they cannot angle against nor kill quickly, while also making the game flow at a slightly quicker pace and present more tactical and strategic choices for each captain with the more dynamic gameplay.

In times of low population MM woukd revert to the current method.

Some of the most entertaining games I've had have been "all battleship" or "all cruiser" games.

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I would like to be in my Kagero and see 10 BBs....:Smile_teethhappy:

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52 minutes ago, Madwolf05 said:

In cases where CVs exist, Cruisers get the 4 ship preference over DDs since they counter CVs

No class is a counter to other classes. All classes are capable of countering all other classes. And this myth that Cruisers all have great AA is just that. At most tiers, CA/CL AA aint any better than BB's AA and sometimes not even as good.

33 minutes ago, TheDreadnought said:

Some of the most entertaining games I've had have been "all battleship" or "all cruiser" games.

Same here. But unfortunately, those are very rare.

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Since WoT, the main philosophy of Battles in Wargaming titles was that of relatively quick battles that you easily jump in and get out of. The measure you suggest, while correct would worsen the queue times. That aside, you also have to consider what would happen when new lines would hit the live server. If everybody was playing lets say French BBs since they just released, you would have to limit them to 4, and then find even more of each class to fill the criteria,  which I believe would make the queue times even worse. Those are some issues  imo that need to be considered as well.

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The all BB, Cruise, or DD games would still occur as they do now, when MM doesn't have enough players for a balanced match as it does now. So when the French line releases and you have 200 BBs, 2 Cruisers, and 8 DDs in queue you'll see those massive BB games still.

I believe there would be a small adjustment period in certain MM groupings where certain ship types aren't as well liked, but overall it wouldn't be a largely noticable wait time change.

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1 hour ago, Madwolf05 said:

We've seem many changes in meta across the games history, but is the solution to morw fluid and less passive metas due to too many ships of any one type?

Here's the theory: Destroyers exist proportionally to Battleships, and passiveness is directly related to passiveness. Cruisers are force multipliers that largely prevent damage from Destroyers, but do not largely discourage their numbers. CVs don't affect passiveness, like Cruisers, directly, but limit vision which causes passiveness.

So the theory would be, limit Battleships, Destroyers, and Cruisers to 4 ships a match, and CVs to 1.

In cases where CVs exist, Cruisers get the 4 ship preference over DDs since they counter CVs, and the free up DDs to actually do more as the game progresses. Since CVs hurt BBs more than DDs more reliably, BBs get the nod over DDs as well. This keeps BBs from being overwhelmed.

While DDs may face less CVs, it creates an overall less frustrating experience for them since they're more likely to be in games where they're less restricted by CVs aircraft.

This will help Cruiser survival as well, preventing them being pinched from so many targets that they cannot angle against nor kill quickly, while also making the game flow at a slightly quicker pace and present more tactical and strategic choices for each captain with the more dynamic gameplay.

In times of low population MM woukd revert to the current method.

I've been suggesting this for a while too. I think the BBs should be capped at 3. Even 4 BBs would be more reasonable than the never-ending 5 BB matches I keep seeing though. 

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When I saw this thread's title, I thought that I was going to see a suggestion for smaller teams.  Sadly, it was an unoriginal suggestion to limit ships by type.

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I tend to agree with the OP for the most part.  There are times when the proportion of different ship types just isn't fun.  Take a 5 DD match.  No one really has fun.  DD's don't have fun because they can't really lurk and prowl around trying to get ambushes on enemy ships, BBs don't have fun because they can't go anywhere on the map without the risk a DD being there to ruin their day.  Cruisers don't have fun because they are getting spotted early and deleted by BBs.  CVs...well who cares about CVs.

In my opinion the ideal distribution of ship classes would be:

1 - CV

4 - BB

4 - CA

3 - DD

In the absence of a CV, either 1 extra BB or CA.

 

 

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