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Desmios

T9/T10 Japanese DD Play

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Usually I am able to get atleast a cap point in my yugomo, but I just played a map that only had base caps.  It was brutal.  Jap DDs have basically become capture and spot ships.

Why does nearly everyone have radar?  And why does it go through islands?

And why does everyone seem to have such great reaction time against my torps?  When I play my gearing, players seem to get hit much more often by my torps. I feel like they can see my jap DD torps coming before my other DDs for some reason.  Anyone know why?  I am running the 12km torps with increased speed + torpedo reload booster (and 5.5km detection range)

Also, any advice on dealing with a CV that perma spots you?  My yugomo has crapAA, so he can basically leave one squadron above me the whole game before I am able to shoot it down, even with focused fire.

I don't know what it is, but japanese DDs don't feel the same as when I started 6 years ago; they feel gimped.  Power creep perhaps?

Edited by Desmios
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11 minutes ago, Desmios said:

Why does nearly everyone have radar?

Because nearly everyone had difficulty finding DD's BEFORE they got torped.

12 minutes ago, Desmios said:

And why does it go through islands?

Because WoW is too lazy to fix it.

13 minutes ago, Desmios said:

And why does everyone seem to have such great reaction time against my torps?

Because IJN torps are spotted at a greater range than any other torp in the game.

14 minutes ago, Desmios said:

My yugomo has crapAA, so he can basically leave one squadron above me the whole game before I am able to shoot it down, even with focused fire.

Get better AA or a better DD.

14 minutes ago, Desmios said:

Power creep perhaps?

More like power whining on behalf of the BB community, who found that turning was just too complicated.

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Desmios, I suggest that you replace your shortened word for Japanese with IJN before some obnoxious PC SJW complains about it, and calls you a racist.

 

Regarding having a carrier plane squadron parked over your DD, there are two ways for any DD to deal with it.

1.  Some DDs have excellent AA and can wipe out those planes.  Unfortunately, IJN DD's aren't among them.  DD's like the Kidd, Grozovoi, and Gearing have good AA and can set themselves up to have very, very good AA with defensive fire if they so wish.

2. Don't operate solo, far from your team where they can't offer any AA support for your IJN DD, particularly in battles with carriers.  Sadly, about the best way to deal with this problem is to always work between the enemy team and your team, so that you can run back to the friendly ships for better AA protection.  

 

 

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47 minutes ago, Crucis said:

Desmios, I suggest that you replace your shortened word for Japanese with IJN before some obnoxious PC SJW complains about it, and calls you a racist.

 

Regarding having a carrier plane squadron parked over your DD, there are two ways for any DD to deal with it.

1.  Some DDs have excellent AA and can wipe out those planes.  Unfortunately, IJN DD's aren't among them.  DD's like the Kidd, Grozovoi, and Gearing have good AA and can set themselves up to have very, very good AA with defensive fire if they so wish.

2. Don't operate solo, far from your team where they can't offer any AA support for your IJN DD, particularly in battles with carriers.  Sadly, about the best way to deal with this problem is to always work between the enemy team and your team, so that you can run back to the friendly ships for better AA protection.  

 

 

Sad this is the world we live in (regarding the PC police)

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6 hours ago, Desmios said:

Indeed.  I will not be changing Jap to Japanese as I am not pandering to these social justice nobs that are attempting to control language and are destroying western civilization (in many other ways).  It is very 1984.

Your call.  I agree with you on this. All I wanted to do is give you a heads up, because IMO the moderators are part of the PC police here from what I've seen and experienced.

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6 hours ago, MattttChris said:

Sad this is the world we live in (regarding the PC police)

Agreed.

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Came to witness inflexible use of racist terminology. Was not disappointed. Especially the snowflake's accusations that anyone who thinks so is "PC Police". :Smile_popcorn:

 

Meanwhile the rest of us are capable of adapting to a changing modern culture.

 

As for the destroyers, I'm sure someone who's only played Shinonome badly, and otherwise never played them past tier 5, will come in and tell you all about how to properly play Yuugumo and Shimakaze.

Edited by KiyoSenkan
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Yes hard to play, but just today.

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6.4km torps 81 knots for a laugh on these 2  ^ ^ vv , i kill 3 of those dds vvv

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Edited by Final8ty

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9 hours ago, Desmios said:

Usually I am able to get atleast a cap point in my yugomo, but I just played a map that only had base caps.  It was brutal.  Jap DDs have basically become capture and spot ships.

Why does nearly everyone have radar?  And why does it go through islands?

only chap and mino can stealth radar though...

so if you dont approach enemy at full speed, either you dont even go into their radar range, or they have to full speed toward you(and BBs behind you) to keep you in their radar range

as for mino......point your stern towards him and he will ricochet after ricochet

as for chap there really no solution......F3 him and pray for RNGesus to bless your BBs

Quote

And why does everyone seem to have such great reaction time against my torps?  When I play my gearing, players seem to get hit much more often by my torps. I feel like they can see my jap DD torps coming before my other DDs for some reason.  Anyone know why?  I am running the 12km torps with increased speed + torpedo reload booster (and 5.5km detection range)

eh 1.7km concealment....0.3km more reaction time than gearing

Quote

Also, any advice on dealing with a CV that perma spots you?  My yugomo has crapAA, so he can basically leave one squadron above me the whole game before I am able to shoot it down, even with focused fire.

seek cruiser AA bubble perhaps?

Quote

I don't know what it is, but japanese DDs don't feel the same as when I started 6 years ago; they feel gimped.  Power creep perhaps?

wait, this game been 6 years?

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7 hours ago, MattttChris said:

Sad this is the world we live in (regarding the PC police)

It's just like drinking and driving. Enough people take things too far, and everybody starts getting policed.

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5 minutes ago, Skpstr said:

It's just like drinking and driving. Enough people take things too far, and everybody starts getting policed.

Well, now I've seen everything. And yesterday someone was proudly saying he wanted all the female captains (the ARP ones) to stay in the kitchen and let the men do the fighting.

 

What kind of outdated dinosaurs am I hanging out with, here?

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10 hours ago, Desmios said:

Usually I am able to get atleast a cap point in my yugomo, but I just played a map that only had base caps.  It was brutal.  Jap DDs have basically become capture and spot ships.

Why does nearly everyone have radar?  And why does it go through islands?

And why does everyone seem to have such great reaction time against my torps?  When I play my gearing, players seem to get hit much more often by my torps. I feel like they can see my jap DD torps coming before my other DDs for some reason.  Anyone know why?  I am running the 12km torps with increased speed + torpedo reload booster (and 5.5km detection range)

Also, any advice on dealing with a CV that perma spots you?  My yugomo has crapAA, so he can basically leave one squadron above me the whole game before I am able to shoot it down, even with focused fire.

I don't know what it is, but japanese DDs don't feel the same as when I started 6 years ago; they feel gimped.  Power creep perhaps?

1.  Everyone has radar and it passes through islands as a direct result of losing the CV player base.  Prior to this CVs were the primary counter to DDs spotting them them for the team to deal with.

2.  IJN torps are spotted by sea and air further than any other nation.  This IMO was done to reduce the number of IJN DD players after WG killed CVs as they were easily the most played DDs at the time by a large margin.  The Devs made several statements about looking into ways to reduce the IJN DD spam during this time frame.  Read between the lines.

3.  Could be a number of things.  Basics like torping from bad angles gives the target a much better window to escape.  Could be a Priority Target issue, or you launch where planes or hydro are going to give early warning.  I dont run TA and I still do pretty good in Yugumo, so I believe its something you can improve.

4.  CVs as mentioned have always been your counter.  Your only option is to either get your CV to send fighters or return to a nearby AA heavy ship for help.  Yugumo is a screening DD, best played near your allies to spot DDs trying to harm  them.  Going for some flank into the enemy spawn in a CV match is a good way to die fast.

My best suggestion is to look into joining a clan that offers training.  They can teach you the way far better than I can in a forum post.  I hope this helps.

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It's not till T9 you start to realize the USN DDs are also good at torping, actually much better at it. Lawl IJN DDs.

 

"How do I build a torp focused Shimakze?"

 

"Gearing, Gearing is what you are looking for." 

Edited by NeutralState

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54 minutes ago, jason199506 said:

only chap and mino can stealth radar though...

Totally incorrect, and laughably so!

55 minutes ago, jason199506 said:

so if you dont approach enemy at full speed, either you dont even go into their radar range, or they have to full speed toward you(and BBs behind you) to keep you in their radar range

The issue isn't keeping you in range; the issue is being spotted, and focus fired by their team, in the first place. How many hits does it take to kill a DD?

57 minutes ago, jason199506 said:

as for mino......point your stern towards him and he will ricochet after ricochet

 Totally incorrect, and laughably so; even more laughably so than your first totally incorrect statement.

33 minutes ago, Destroyer_KuroshioKai said:

1.  Everyone has radar and it passes through islands as a direct result of losing the CV player base.  Prior to this CVs were the primary counter to DDs spotting them them for the team to deal with.

This was a DIRECT result of whining by BB players.

34 minutes ago, Destroyer_KuroshioKai said:

2.  IJN torps are spotted by sea and air further than any other nation.  This IMO was done to reduce the number of IJN DD players after WG killed CVs as they were easily the most played DDs at the time by a large margin.  The Devs made several statements about looking into ways to reduce the IJN DD spam during this time frame.  Read between the lines.

This was also a DIRECT result of whining by BB players.

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11 hours ago, Desmios said:

Usually I am able to get atleast a cap point in my yugomo, but I just played a map that only had base caps.  It was brutal.  Jap DDs have basically become capture and spot ships.

Why does nearly everyone have radar?  And why does it go through islands?

And why does everyone seem to have such great reaction time against my torps?  When I play my gearing, players seem to get hit much more often by my torps. I feel like they can see my jap DD torps coming before my other DDs for some reason.  Anyone know why?  I am running the 12km torps with increased speed + torpedo reload booster (and 5.5km detection range)

Also, any advice on dealing with a CV that perma spots you?  My yugomo has crapAA, so he can basically leave one squadron above me the whole game before I am able to shoot it down, even with focused fire.

I don't know what it is, but japanese DDs don't feel the same as when I started 6 years ago; they feel gimped.  Power creep perhaps?

It has gotten harder but I am usually a BB driver and I do enjoy playing my DDs. Try going back and play some tier 5 IJN DD. I enjoy that. When spotted be thin and run. 

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10 minutes ago, Umikami said:

Totally incorrect, and laughably so!

The issue isn't keeping you in range; the issue is being spotted, and focus fired by their team, in the first place. How many hits does it take to kill a DD?

 Totally incorrect, and laughably so; even more laughably so than your first totally incorrect statement.

This was a DIRECT result of whining by BB players.

This was also a DIRECT result of whining by BB players.

I was a BB driver and never whined about DD play unless they did not spot. All I ask as  a BB player is keep the enemy spotted which I try to do when playing my DDs. If you keep the enemy spotted and have a team of bad shots no amount of good play will help and you in the DD will always get blamed by those who do not know how to play the game. 

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37 minutes ago, KiyoSenkan said:

Well, now I've seen everything. And yesterday someone was proudly saying he wanted all the female captains (the ARP ones) to stay in the kitchen and let the men do the fighting.

 

What kind of outdated dinosaurs am I hanging out with, here?

 

38 minutes ago, KiyoSenkan said:

Well, now I've seen everything. And yesterday someone was proudly saying he wanted all the female captains (the ARP ones) to stay in the kitchen and let the men do the fighting.

 

What kind of outdated dinosaurs am I hanging out with, here?

Hey, sexism is something completely different.

The other is about not being a complete idiot. Nobody ever died because somebody had one beer on the way home from work, or had two or three while doing 10-15mph out on some backroad.

It used to only be illegal to drive drunk, but people weren't able to police themselves, so more restrictive laws had to be introduced, and more police resources allocated to enforcing them.

Same idea. SJWism didn't spring from nowhere, it's a reaction to too many people that couldn't keep their prejudices to themselves.

Many of us "dinosaurs" were brought up with ingrained morality. Nowadays it seems like, "well, it's not specifically against the rules, so no reason not to do it" is the order of the day.

 

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20 minutes ago, Buzzardsluck said:

I was a BB driver and never whined about DD play unless they did not spot.

And I have never understood why BB players say "Lets take A" at the beginning of a match when their DD's are going to B or C, and then complain about it when they get to (,or within 4 squares of, which is as close as BB drivers usually come to) A, and have no one to spot for them. If you need someone to spot for you, shouldn't you follow THEM to where THEY are going, instead of going where they are not and then whining about it? If you know how to play a DD so well that you can give one instructions, then park that tuna boat and play one, or be quiet and follow like a good little lemming

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17 minutes ago, Skpstr said:

 

Hey, sexism is something completely different.

The other is about not being a complete idiot. Nobody ever died because somebody had one beer on the way home from work, or had two or three while doing 10-15mph out on some backroad.

It used to only be illegal to drive drunk, but people weren't able to police themselves, so more restrictive laws had to be introduced, and more police resources allocated to enforcing them.

Same idea. SJWism didn't spring from nowhere, it's a reaction to too many people that couldn't keep their prejudices to themselves.

Many of us "dinosaurs" were brought up with ingrained morality. Nowadays it seems like, "well, it's not specifically against the rules, so no reason not to do it" is the order of the day.

 

The funny part is I tend to see the "It's not specifically against the rules, so no reason not to do it" excuse being paired with "First amendment right of free speech!" as defenses by those same old folks who have that so-called "Ingrained morality". They use this because they're so insistent on justifying racism, sexism, and other cultural idiocy from the 1950s and 1960s that modern society has been trying to move away from since MLK Jr was assassinated by one of them.

 

Speaking as a Gen Xer, these cultural dinosaurs need to realize the world is changing and, at the very least, acknowledge that they're either incapable of unwilling to change with it rather than try to accuse the modern generations, which are adapting to the changes in our global culture, of being inferior just because they don't go out of their way to piss everyone else off.

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1 hour ago, Umikami said:

The issue isn't keeping you in range; the issue is being spotted, and focus fired by their team, in the first place.

how could you be spotted if you arent in their radar range?

and what do you know to say except "totally incorrect" without any sort of justification or counter-argument

 

on yugumo and shimakaze(the topic of this post) i have 16/19% higher win rate than you, and almost double your yugumo average damage while have more than double your yugumo average kill/shima average damage/shima average kill

you also have zero experience using radar, while i have over 1000 games in radar cruisers

maybe you should look at how i play my IJN DDs and try to see where you can improve, instead of "totally incorrect"-ing everything that differs from the way you play them

Edited by jason199506

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20 minutes ago, Umikami said:

 If you need someone to spot for you, shouldn't you follow THEM to where THEY are going, instead of going where they are not and then whining about it?

DDs are faster than BBs, DDs should work around BBs with slower speed

if BBs were to follow DDs to caps they didnt spawn near, it would result in them arriving late compared to enemy BBs that spawn near that cap

disadvantage in early stage fire support is exactly the way to lose a cap early on

so no, DDs should go to the cap near your BB spawn , and not go to a far cap you desire and expect your BBs to follow you

Edited by jason199506
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4 minutes ago, KiyoSenkan said:

The funny part is I tend to see the "It's not specifically against the rules, so no reason not to do it" excuse being paired with "First amendment right of free speech!" as defenses by those same old folks who have that so-called "Ingrained morality". They use this because they're so insistent on justifying racism, sexism, and other cultural idiocy from the 1950s and 1960s that modern society has been trying to move away from since MLK Jr was assassinated by one of them.

 

Speaking as a Gen Xer, these cultural dinosaurs need to realize the world is changing and, at the very least, acknowledge that they're either incapable of unwilling to change with it rather than try to accuse the modern generations, which are adapting to the changes in our global culture, of being inferior just because they don't go out of their way to piss everyone else off.

Agreed. Morality is not an absolute. It's a cultural construct, and thus changes with culture, which in turn changes as technology does. Too many people are stuck thinking that because something was done a certain way when they grew up, it should be the same now. Not necessarily, but whenever the argument is brought up with a comparison with them as the younger generation, the response is inevitably, "That's different!"

As a member of Gen Y, we're quite glad overall that the Baby Boomers are slowly closing up shop. The world has changed so drastically in the past few decades, and they refuse or are simply unable to change with it. They seem to have lost sight that there's a difference between authoritarian style speech control and not intentionally being provocative, especially with documented racial slurs that they continue to insist are just "not being PC."

Mind you, it's not exclusive to them (Gen X and Gen Y both have members like this, Gen Z isn't really quite old enough yet), but it's certainly more widespread among the Baby Boomers, and even worse on the last remaining hold-outs from the self-proclaimed "Greatest Generation."


As for the actual point of this rapidly derailing thread, I'm only up to Akatsuki, so I can't offer much there specifically. In general, only really the USN and alternate VMF lines have enough AA to deter a CV intent on perma-spotting you. All you can really do is either smoke up, and/or hope he'll need his planes elsewhere soon and has to pull them back. As for radar, this is a problem for all DD's except VMF gunboats, but I've heard somethings about how the game engine won't let them wrap its effect around islands. IJN got their torpedo detection nerfed way back when, and despite rampant power-creep and Pan-Asian ninja torps being even worse then IJN torps ever were, have never been buffed back.

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16 minutes ago, jason199506 said:

on yugumo and shimakaze(the topic of this post) i have 16/19% higher win rate than you, and almost double your yugumo average damage while have more than double your yugumo average kill/shima average damage/shima average kill

Any poster who starts quoting "win rates" is someone I know I can ignore; have a great day.

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Just now, Umikami said:

Any poster who starts quoting "win rates" is someone I know I can ignore; have a great day.

because i am trying to help OP win his games

have a great day, and make sure to not be on my team

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