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Coyote16

the team kill system..

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Most people are misunderstanding what he's getting at. Believe it or not, some people intentionally sail into torpedoes to make you pink. You might think that's some next level griefing since pink doesn't actually do anything, but I have seen this happen before. In addition, there are a lot of bots at mid tiers. One of the telltale signs of a bot is complete lack of awareness to the presence of teammates. I encountered this once in a match with Mutsu. There was a bot Nurnberg on my team that sailed somewhat close to me (~4km) because I was in the fight and bots go for the nearest reds. This Nurnberg fired two torp salvos at me as I was engaged in a BB brawl. I was confused at first and fortunately they missed, but I noticed that they were grey line torps aimed straight at the BB I was fighting. In a later engagement, this Nurnberg fired torps again, this time TKing me. That's when I realized that this was a bot. The torps were grey lined and only fired when that Nurnberg was actually in range of an enemy. An intentional TK would just be trying to kill me at the earliest convenience. Bots do not take into account anything other than the nearest red. The bot had no idea I was even there and because it was a bot, it could not fire torps in any other manner than grey lining. Logically, if bots can't adjust torps for the presence of teammates, then bots subsequently cannot alter their path to avoid friendly torpedoes because the bot is essentially playing a 1v12 match.

Obviously, this can't be the case because the Omaha got mad at OP, but it should change your perspective on the notion that it is always your fault if your torps hit friendlies.

That aside, we all know how suicidal human Omaha players tend to be.

Edited by awildseaking

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21 hours ago, Wowzery said:

When I run into friendly torps at that distance, yeah, sorry, my fault.  The whole guy who gets hit has no blame is to cover for ignorance and a lack of self awareness of where you are, and your allies are in the game.

I do think with friendly torps the game should give more advanced warning they are approaching.

The attitude of you should be aware, that to me means if any friendly is anywhere in front of you don't fire a torp.  That basically takes a weapon for your team out of the game because you're too dumb to maintain awareness around you.

Let me be clear about this.  

If you launch torpedoes and they hit another ship, IT IS YOUR FAULT ... Period.

It is not the responsibility of the player you sunk to be looking over their shoulder at the idiot who in launching their torpedoes from their rear, they have enough on their plate dealing with the red ships in front of them to be worrying about incoming fire from their own team.  If there is any doubt in your mind about whether a friendly ship could stray into your torpedoes, Don't Launch Them.  Switch to guns, go scout and observe, lay down a smoke screen, maneuver for a clearer shot,  but Don't Launch your Torpedoes until you have a clear shot!!

Sure, there will be times when you make a mistake.  I one time launched a spread of torps at a red cruiser, a couple of them hit my target but the rest kept on running and hit a friendly ship on the far side of my target that I hadn't been paying attention to. Anyway, you will occasionally be pink but it's not a huge deal like it used to be. 

Back in the bad old days, pink ships more often than not were real team killers.  They weren't doing anything by accident.  They'd usually be driving a dd or a torp firing cruiser and the first thing they'd do is make a bee line to the nearest friendly battleship or carrier and put a full spread of torpedoes into them. Stuff like that was happening all the time.  Anyway, back then, you really had to be wary about the pink ships as they could, and often did, turn on you in the blink of an eye.  Today pink ships are largely vessels of players who have been a bit careless with their torpedoes but weren't intending to sink whatever it is that they sunk.  

So anyway, the pink ship means something a bit different today than it did in the past. 

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Can anyone explain why we have friendly fire damage? Or, more specifically why am I, the player taking FF damage, penalized for someone's mistake / griefing? Why not just have all FF damage reflected from the beginning? It still requires you to be cautious with your shots / torps, but it doesn't penalize someone else.  BTW, getting TK status is not necessarily from TKing someone. The last 2 times I got TK status were from fires accidentally set on friendly ships.

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1 hour ago, BB3_Oregon_Steel said:

If you launch torpedoes and they hit another ship, IT IS YOUR FAULT ... Period.

Sorry, if I turn and am not looking into a spread of friendly torps.  That's my fault for not being aware.  You can sugar coat it all you want, pass the buck, but in the end of the day you must also take some blame in certain situations.

Make no mistake, I'm not saying you launch torps and don't see that friendly ship sailing right in front of you.  Yeah, that's your fault for launching them.  But the guy who makes a u-turn well after you fire, nope.  Never bought it, he must share some responsibility for a lack of awareness as well.

The idea the person who gets hit is always completely innocent is illogical and is blame shifting.

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10 minutes ago, Wowzery said:

Sorry, if I turn and am not looking into a spread of friendly torps.  That's my fault for not being aware.  You can sugar coat it all you want, pass the buck, but in the end of the day you must also take some blame in certain situations.

Make no mistake, I'm not saying you launch torps and don't see that friendly ship sailing right in front of you.  Yeah, that's your fault for launching them.  But the guy who makes a u-turn well after you fire, nope.  Never bought it, he must share some responsibility for a lack of awareness as well.

The idea the person who gets hit is always completely innocent is illogical and is blame shifting.

Although I do see your point of shared guilt. If the player fires Torpedos behind a friendly That player is taking an unnecessary risk. Torpedos are a front line weapon. If your not front line don't fire,Simple.

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5 hours ago, BB3_Oregon_Steel said:

 

If you launch torpedoes and they hit another ship, IT IS YOUR FAULT ... Period.

 I still disagree and think it is not always the fault of the torp launcher.  As one who got another made pink last night I will say I am at partial fault as well.  Playing in co-op to unlock the upgrades on my Phoenix before taking it into Random's as I am finally working on the US cruiser line.  We were down to 2 enemies left and I popped out from behind the island I was hiding behind to to pump my torps into the enemy BB coming around the island.  All my torps did hit, but his secondaries took out my rudder causing me to turn right into the torps from our CV that missed the same BB before I could finish the repair.  

 

Yes maybe the CV should have been more careful knowing I was right in that area, but rushing out to get the kill and getting my rudder shot out in doing so was my own fault, had I stayed back I would not have killed the bot BB, but would not have cause my teams CV to get a TK too.  I think the greed for kills actually is the bigger factor in a lot of accidental torp TK's and that being the case there is equal fault on both side.   I fully believe a lot of these happen from greed of short range torp players trying to get their shots  off and ignoring incoming warnings at this point as we have all seen how salty some will get about being the one to get kills if someone else happens to get the finishing blow on a red.

The way many here want it people could never launch torps as even a miss on long range ones could hit a team mate who is no where near where they are heading by the time they run out at 10km, some torps just have such long ranges that a clear safe shot nearly cannot exist and not using them would take a key tool away from your team chance of winning risk or not.  Also as someone else stated there is the issue of situational awareness.  Yes perhaps only the one who fires toprs is responsible for those torps, but only you are responsible for where and what your ship is doing as well.  It is up to you to be aware of the bigger battle around you and not only tunnel vision on your current target.

 

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On 1/30/2018 at 4:52 PM, 56th_Karma said:

already lost pink status. so meh.

 

not saying that at all. An Omaha is pretty much useless at T5

I would if I thought it were my fault. I've had a few that were completely my fault that I would admit to. This guy just drove directly into them at a distance that Helen Keller could have heard and seen them coming. I really wish I had the replay of this. It was absurd.

Still your fault. Still.

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Does anyone really care about the idiot who diverts from his normal route to eat your torpedoes? A person can only assume that this is done to prove a point: give a team mate the opportunity to run into a torpedo and you probably shouldn't have fired it. 

It isn't their "fault" for choosing to let one of your torpedoes hit them or going out of their way to make that happen. It's your fault for giving them the opportunity. It. Just. Is.

I've lost the leash on torps before and regrettably hit friendly ships. I apologize in game and will, if appropriate, follow up post game and try to smooth any ruffled feathers. 99% of the time the guy I killed / hit is receptive and we move on.

Actually I can't think of any time where someone was so salty about it they kept "giving me the business" after an apology.

I play my part by working on improving my situational awareness and doing whatever I can to eliminate friendly fire. I don't want to hit friendly ships and whether being pink means anything or not, my gaming pride insists that I do better next time.

Nobody is going to change anyone's mind tonight- but taking responsibility for your actions is one of few tangible life skills you can practice in game.

 

Edited by Gascan75

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On 1/31/2018 at 3:06 PM, Wowzery said:

Sorry, if I turn and am not looking into a spread of friendly torps.  That's my fault for not being aware.  You can sugar coat it all you want, pass the buck, but in the end of the day you must also take some blame in certain situations.

Make no mistake, I'm not saying you launch torps and don't see that friendly ship sailing right in front of you.  Yeah, that's your fault for launching them.  But the guy who makes a u-turn well after you fire, nope.  Never bought it, he must share some responsibility for a lack of awareness as well.

The idea the person who gets hit is always completely innocent is illogical and is blame shifting.

No, it is your fault ... period. 

In order to score a torp hit on a friendly vessel, it has to generally be closer to the enemy than you are.  It's attention is rightly focused on the enemy ships it is facing or any that may appear.  In order to check on you it has to shift it's focus from what it should be doing to checking that any friendlies aren't slinging torpedoes it's way. 

You, on the other hand, have both that friendly vessel and the enemy vessels generally in view, you can see what all of them are doing . You are the one who has the best situational awareness of what could happen if you launch your torpedoes. This makes you the responsible party because it is you who is making the decision to hazard other friendly vessels or not. 

Like I said, if you launch torpedoes and they hit a friendly vessel, it is your fault ... period. 

  

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23 hours ago, Amberwolfe said:

Yes maybe the CV should have been more careful knowing I was right in that area,

Exactly.  

There are instances where things to haywire or unexpected things happen but the player of a torpedo carrying ship needs to carefully weigh when and how they will deploy their torpedoes.  That CV knew where you were, knew where the enemy ship was and chose to put your ship in harm's way to polish off the battleship.  It certainly wasn't your fault that your rudderless ship ended up in a torp's path. 

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1 hour ago, BB3_Oregon_Steel said:

Like I said, if you launch torpedoes and they hit a friendly vessel, it is your fault ... period. 

Sorry, not buying it.  Again, sounds like an excuse so you don't have to be aware either.

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7 hours ago, Wowzery said:

Sorry, not buying it.  Again, sounds like an excuse so you don't have to be aware either.

Wasn’t aware the truth was for sale.

Only one person can prevent friendly fire, and that’s the person pulling the trigger. Does that mean there has to be zero risk of hitting a friendly to shoot? No. But if you judge incorrectly, the fault is yours. 

 

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7 hours ago, Thornir said:

Wasn’t aware the truth was for sale.

Only one person can prevent friendly fire, and that’s the person pulling the trigger. Does that mean there has to be zero risk of hitting a friendly to shoot? No. But if you judge incorrectly, the fault is yours. 

 

This

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14 hours ago, Wowzery said:

Sorry, not buying it.  Again, sounds like an excuse so you don't have to be aware either.

No, sounds like a player who's played enough DD's to know how to use torpedoes responsibly and who has played enough battleships and cruisers who have been on the receiving end of idiocy like yours.  Sounds like a player who knows where the responsibility lies rather than someone who wants to make others responsible for their own mistakes. 

 

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On 1/31/2018 at 3:56 PM, Kevs02Accord said:

Can anyone explain why we have friendly fire damage? Or, more specifically why am I, the player taking FF damage, penalized for someone's mistake / griefing? Why not just have all FF damage reflected from the beginning? It still requires you to be cautious with your shots / torps, but it doesn't penalize someone else.  BTW, getting TK status is not necessarily from TKing someone. The last 2 times I got TK status were from fires accidentally set on friendly ships.

That sounds pretty reasonable to me.  If WG keeps friendly fire damage, why not program it to reflect upon the issuer?   Torp a friendly, you get the damage.  Set fire to a friendly?   Now that'd be fun - the recipient lets it burn, while the issuer sees his HP dwindle.

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I've intentionally let a fire/flood cause by a pinky to run its full course.  It's one less area of my ship that can catch on fire from enemy fire, AND I don't have to waste a damage control cooldown.

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15 hours ago, Wowzery said:

Sorry, not buying it.  Again, sounds like an excuse so you don't have to be aware either.

It's not totally binary.    

There are some expectations, however, from both sides.

  • There is an expectation that if you fire torps or rounds, there's no friendly in front of you or ranged where they MIGHT be hit.
  • There is an expectation for friendlies to keep an eye out for friendly rounds.
  • There is an expectation to call out a bad firing.   "TORPS RIGHT, PLAYER X"
  • There is an expectation to own up if a round/torp hits.    In all my matches where I've inflicted friendly fire, I've always immediately apologized (yes, even if warning in chat three or four times).    Number of times I've received salt?  ZERO.

Ultimately, it is my fault.  If I had never fired, that friendly fire wouldn't have occurred.    Granted, there may be circumstances that I cannot control, or chat might be ignored.  But, once I fire, those are my rounds.    I try to play with those four expectations in play, and haven't had any problems with the TK program.

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3 minutes ago, DiddleDum said:

It's not totally binary.    

There are some expectations, however, from both sides.

  • There is an expectation that if you fire torps or rounds, there's no friendly in front of you or ranged where they MIGHT be hit.
  • There is an expectation for friendlies to keep an eye out for friendly rounds.
  • There is an expectation to call out a bad firing.   "TORPS RIGHT, PLAYER X"
  • There is an expectation to own up if a round/torp hits.    In all my matches where I've inflicted friendly fire, I've always immediately apologized (yes, even if warning in chat three or four times).    Number of times I've received salt?  ZERO.

Ultimately, it is my fault.  If I had never fired, that friendly fire wouldn't have occurred.    Granted, there may be circumstances that I cannot control, or chat might be ignored.  But, once I fire, those are my rounds.    I try to play with those four expectations in play, and haven't had any problems with the TK program.

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On ‎2‎/‎2‎/‎2018 at 1:10 PM, BB3_Oregon_Steel said:

No, sounds like a player who's played enough DD's to know how to use torpedoes responsibly and who has played enough battleships and cruisers who have been on the receiving end of idiocy like yours.  Sounds like a player who knows where the responsibility lies rather than someone who wants to make others responsible for their own mistakes. 

 

Actually I'm a BB main and part of what I do is make sure I know where my DDs and CAs are so they don't hit me with torps.  The last time I was hit, it was my fault, not the DD who fired them.  That's why I say, in some cases not all, shared responsibility must be taken.  I even owned up to my own stupidity in chat.

Edited by Wowzery

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54 minutes ago, Wowzery said:

 

Actually I'm a BB main and part of what I do is make sure I know where my DDs and CAs are so they don't hit me with torps.  The last time I was hit, it was my fault, not the DD who fired them.  That's why I say, in some cases not all, shared responsibility must be taken.  I even owned up to my own stupidity in chat.

The worst is when it's accidental and DCP is down. Or the player you accidentally hit with HE from one of your turrets because the both of you were to close together, believes that you hit them on purpose and let's the fire you set burn them to death. 

If WG ever decides to tweak the Friendly Fire mechanics the ability to remove setting DoTs on friendlies would be nice. For the most part the accidental Alpha damage is big enough of an "oops" in some situations. 

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