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Italian Tier X Cruiser

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Privateers, In AlfaTesters
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39 minutes ago, Aetreus said:

The drag value will unfortunately not be that good. Zara will have almost certainly a drag of 0.334, which aligns both the 900 m/s and 940 m/s maximum range to their correct values.

Interesting. What about the other values (960mps)?

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Beta Testers
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Your both missing a key point here. Well a few.


 How you can angle against cruiser fire is largely irrelevant when BB's mean that anything your doing that lets a cruiser, (even Zara isn't going to seriously beat BB shell flight times if she even matches them), get your cit will automatically mean a BB can get it. And if you allow that to happen you have seriouslly godammed screwed up. Big time. So weather a given cruiser can or cannot get through another given cruisers main belt at any given angle is kinda irrelevant because your number one priority in a cruiser is to never let anything hit you in the first place. That's why Effective range vs Maneuvering ability is one of the two key dichotomies of cruiser effectiveness. Because the number one defence of a cruiser is to simply not get hit in the first place


On top of that a good cruiser player who has to deal with a mixture of BB and cruiser AP fire he can manage his angles, positioning so that he can still duck and weave whilst allways presenting the best angle to the enemy cruiser fire when it lands whilst presenting the best firing angle in between. I do this routinely in my Tirpitz vs BB fire at typical cruisers level combat ranges, (usually on approach or if i'm pulling a fighting retreat), and possibly Moskva aside i don't think there's any cruisers that maneuvers as badly. So unless the range is very close or they have a particularly brutal RoF, (DM i'm looking at you here), in cruiser terms having insufficient armour to handle a given AP hit at a given angle isn't a major issue, you can arrange to be at that angle when the hits land if you must take the hits without having to keep that angle  But once again if your in a position where you have to take hits you have generally speaking made some form of mistake.


The one time all of your talk of armour vs pen actually becomes really important, (in particular the highlighted USN values), is if two cruisers are engaging in a mutual brawl. But thats generally an awful idea because if any other cruiser has a better angle, if the CV comes to drop on you, if a DD can get a drop off, if a BB can get a shot off, your going to get nuked by the enemy cruisers teammates because you have no options vs them. And if by some miracle that dosen;t happen, well unless it's a US cruiser get ready to eat a face full of torps in your Zara. Don;t get me wrong, the Zara will still perform well here IMO. But it's such a niche situation that you normally attempt to avoid at all costs if your any good in a cruiser unless really, really, really favorable circumstances happen that it's not going to have a big net effect on the ships performance.


The ships performance is going to be decided my it's mid to long range duck and weave HE spamming capabilities, (though with such good AP she's likely to be somthing of a dual ammo type ship like Baltimore, but either way DPM is the key measure). HP is only important because it's more a measure of how many mistakes you can allow. Range vs Maneuvering determines how easy it is to make a mistake and thus how long on average will go between them, and That plus HP gives you a rough estimate of how long you can survive in various situations under various levels of focus. Your DPM then measures how much damage you can do within each of those timeframes. Most everything else in ship capability terms is dressing around the edges that enhances one thing or another or adds tertiary capabilities. 


As some extra notes to that last paragraph:


Smoke cruisers basically substitute smoke firing for duck and weave though some can do both, but smoke is generally more powerful in terms of letting you deal damage. Though tanking damage via duck and weave cna take needed pressure off your team at times.

Torpedoes whilst they have obvious ambush offensive uses are also first and foremost a mistake recovery tool as they can allow you if you ended up too close to either take ship with you making the loss of your ship more of a net neutral effect, or under the right circumstances survive a mistake whilst taking another ship out and dealing massive damage.


And thats how i view Zara's 150mm belt, a tertiary capability, nice to have if you need it but you really shouldn't be getting into situations where you do need it on any kind of routine basis. Most of the time if i get citted in a pepsi by cruiser AP, i would get citted by it in a Zara because it involves a moment where i'm caught flat footed by an enemy cruiser in some fashion at exactly theinstant my duck and weave has given them a broadside and they've managed to line up the perfect shot, (usually involving a cruiser that i only find out is in a surprising position when it opens up). Even then it's rarely unsurvivable.It just hurts to lose the HP margin. Of course yes somtimes i take cruiser calibre AP cits at very severe angles and Zara's armour would help there, but they're a vanishingly small % of my total damage intake.


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you would either have to buff it slightly to fit tier VIII for nerf it heavily to fit tier VII because having the same armor as the DM at tier VII is a bit hard to balance. if you say it is more similar to the Algeri then you are wrong besides having the same amount of 8in guns the Algeri is most like the Trento. if you expect a cruiser to have the same survivability as a battleship then you have to high of expectations and even then if you angle right(not bow in) you can still bounce yamato shells I have done to planty of times in my Hipper and the Zara has better armor

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