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RadDisconnect

Detailed look at high tier BB citadels with new port camera

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Just reusing what I did for reddit. The new port camera lets your camera get much closer to the waterline so you can get a better idea of how high citadels are, so I did just that to compare what citadels of high tier BBs look like.

 

Japanese: moderate turtleback except for Yamato

u8ns80l.jpg

All IJN BBs except for Yamato have a moderate turtleback armor with citadel a little bit above waterline, though Amagi citadel is a bit lower than the rest. The turtleback is what makes IJN BBs being kinda trollish when it comes to citadeling them since the turtleback does weird bounces even mild angles. But still, the turtleback angle isn't as optimal as Germans so IJN BBs eat citadels about as much as USN BBs especially against shells that plunge. However, the citadel roof is all 38 mm or more on all high tier IJN BBs so they can't be overmatched. Apparently Izumo also has some bow armor not in the armor viewer so it's pretty trollish when trying to citadel it bow on with Yamato.

Also, unlike Yamato, Amagi and Izumo are covered by 25-32 mm outer hull plating, which explains how they feel so squishy especially against cruisers and also take a lot more normal pen damage. Also means that even without citadeling Yamato while rip 15-20k chunks out of Amagi and Izumo no matter the angle because lolpen overmatch.

The only exception to this is Yamato which has an above waterline citadel without a turtleback unlike other IJN BBs. But it also gets 2.1 sigma and lolpen overmatch to compensate. Overall though it still seems competitive, but maybe give it a slightly better heal since it is getting a bit power creeped.

Also, Musashi citadel doesn't seem to be higher than Yamato despite what u/flamuchz says. Still easy to citadel when broadside though.

 

American: right at the waterline

S2hoBkZ.jpg

All high tier USN BBs have citadels right at the waterline. No one ever thinks NC is tanky when broadside and everyone agrees it eats lots of citadels, but the corrected lower citadels on Alabama and Iowa/Missouri and Montana are no lower than NC citadel. So I don't get why people keep complaining about the new "underwater" USN BB citadels when they obviously aren't. I say it's confirmation bias that they don't get as many citadels on them as they used to with old citadels and then exaggerate how low the citadels are when in reality they are same height as NC's. So really, against BB guns the Alabama, Iowa/Missouri are just as weak when broadside as the NC which no one thinks is tanky when broadside. The Alabama and Iowa armor is also only a few millimeters thicker than NC's so if you're fine with NC's citadel then you can't complain about Alabama and Iowa, just aim better or have better RNG.

Only exception is Montana because it got such thick armor, so it can angle to prevent citadels much better so maybe the citadel doesn't need to be fully lowered for that. However all of the citadel roof can be overmatched, which is true for most or all of high tier USN BB citadels.

Against cruisers though the outside plate of the Alabama and Iowa/Missouri makes them harder to citadel though even with flat shooting guns like Moskva you can do it with good aim. Also since the middle decks are 37-38 mm it doesn't eat as much HE spam damage.

 

German: "made in German" turtleback

MuL5nJn.jpg

So this is pretty surprising but it turns out that German citadels aren't actually low, it's entirely the turtleback that makes them tanky and almost impossible to citadel. The angle is so shallow that you'll always autobounce except for long range and the armor deck is right on the roof of the citadel and can't be overmatched. So, while many ships have turtleback, if you want true protection, go Deutsch. Actually the GK and FDG citadels are actually a bit above water but again with turtleback that doesn't matter. The terrible gun angles and thick upper belt means it takes a lot of normal pen damage though and the turrets are pretty weak in terms of armor, so they can still somewhat be punished, but can't wreck them as hard as IJN and USN BBs usually.

Also, the FDG rear gun angle is still really bad for some reason and it makes the ship annoying to play. No reason why it's as bad as it is and you take huge chunks when using all guns.

German decks are amazing and make them totally protected against cruiser HE except for German cruisers. The superstructure is huge though and still eats HE damage like crazy.

 

British: submarines buried underwater citadels

lpcu1Q9.jpg

The RN citadels are probably the dumbest of them all, they are several meters underwater. If you want to see actual underwater citadel, then RN is where to look (unlike USN). From KGV to Lion the citadels are so deep underwater I can't get any citadels under 13 km in training room when using Yamato or Alabama with plunging shells. And further than that it's still rare to get citadels. What's the point of even having them? Also, the hull area above the citadel saturates pretty quickly so if you want to kill them with AP you have to actually aim at the bow or stern. Except that when you shoot there you will get more overpens because of thin plating while German BBs eat normal pen damage.

Also, Conqueror citadel is actually only a bit below waterline but it's almost impossible to hit because most of the citadel roof is 63 mm which can't be overmatch by any gun.

Don't know what else to say about RN citadels other than they're deep underwater and completely dumb. If I were to rebalance RN BBs, I would raise citadel over machinery (which is more accurate anyways), nerf HE, but improve the AP and accuracy to balance out. KGV machinery is a bit above water so it can be like a Baltimore citadel with different heights.

Also, 32 mm plating everywhere so they take lots of HE damage but with superheal on Lion and Conqueror they heal that right back.

Edited by RadDisconnect
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OMG I HEARD THE S WORD!!!!!!! HE SAID THE MAGIC WORD!!!!!!!!!

---------------------

Impressive work, would you mind doing one for Roma?

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3 minutes ago, Dr_Venture said:

OMG I HEARD THE S WORD!!!!!!! HE SAID THE MAGIC WORD!!!!!!!!!

---------------------

Impressive work, would you mind doing one for Roma?

Too expensive so didn't buy so I can't see the ship. But you can just see this yourself easily with new port camera by dragging the camera way down.

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Yeah had not taken the time to look in RN BBs Citadels, but figured they were really low since while I have no Pickens usually making them eat lots of shell damage I do not remember ever getting Citadel hits on them.

Lol talk about new player friendly BBs that are good using the HE and are as close as you can get to being Citadel proof.

 

I have not made much use of RN ships though since I don't own any of the premium ships which in my opinion seem to be best of that Tech tree.

RN CAs frustrate me since the low tier CAs AP feels very ineffective until you get mid to high tier and the armor is weak so been saving that line until much later. And they lack the HE shells which at least at tiers 1-4 is what most ships use down at those tiers.

RN BBs the armor is not that strong, AA is lacking, and AP is quite weak which is what I love using on other my other BBs since Citadel hits can bring down enemy ships so quickly. When I want to spam HE shells I use my CAs.

Still waiting to see how RN CAs and CVs will turn out to be like.

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I think the T-shape of the NC citadel makes it a bit easier to hit than the others.

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1 hour ago, Dr_Venture said:

OMG I HEARD THE S WORD!!!!!!! HE SAID THE MAGIC WORD!!!!!!!!!

---------------------

Impressive work, would you mind doing one for Roma?

Torre_eurosky.jpg

 

:Smile_teethhappy:

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More on citadels. So looking at armor viewer, IJN BB citadels (except for Yamato) sit at or slightly above waterline but their citadel roofs can't be overmatched. USN BB citadels sit at waterline but roof can be overmatched except for some sections on Alabama and NC. German BB citadel roofs can't be overmatched. RN BB citadel roofs can be overmatched but it doesn't matter because they're so low underwater you barely ever hit them anyways.

 

But Kii citadel roof can be overmatched which is why it feels a lot squishier than Amagi even though citadel height is about same.

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