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Admiral_Thrawn_1

Scharnhorst vs Gneisenau Ranked?

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1 hour ago, Sovereigndawg said:

I am hoping for tier 1, 2, or 3 for Ranked, in that order.

THAT would be a hoot!  

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7 hours ago, Admiral_Thrawn_1 said:

Yeah despite the fact that Scharnhorst is said to have trouble penetrating BB armor you guys do have a point about there being a lot of CAs in tier VII Ranked...

Penetrating belt armor, yes.  Penetrating anywhere else?  Not so much.  Shoot like a cruiser and profit.

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7 hours ago, lron_Dog_of_Jutland said:

Pick Nagato :-)

In Ranked all you need as a BB is striking power and both German BBs lack in this department. Scharnhorst is great fun in random but for ranked clearly inferior to Nagato.

This first the first half of last t7 ranked Nagato was top BB. Then towards the end the easier to play BBs overtook her.

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To be fair, I disagree with Scharnhorst being bad at putting BBs down. Full Secondaries with Adrenaline Rush, you won't be losing to ANY BB in the DPM department that's not Musashi or Tier 9 BBs (Due to their reload modules.)

Last time Ranked was Tier 7, I exclusively used my Scharnhorst. She worked out very well. The thing with Scharnhorst is that she's a ship that literally hunt anything in Tier 7. People often under-estimate her when facing off against a Scharnhorst because her 280mm guns only hit for like 7800 damage per shell. The problem is, that's an average of 4-5k per hit per shell. At close range I wrack up damage numbers between 10 and 12k HP per salvo every 20s. With Adrenaline Rush at 50% HP I am slinging those shells out every 15s. No other BB in Tier 7 has this capacity, not to mention she's got extremely good secondaries (8.1km) now since the buff and her torpedoes are just as good.

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Thanks to Ranked always being the same tier, I have no qualms for what I hunt. If a Battleship or Cruiser shows broadside? Punish them, if a Destroyer is within secondary range and reasonable MB range, punish them. If you find a CV, punish them. There is no ship in Tier 7 that a decent Scharnhorst captain cannot sink.

So as I see it for popular ships in Tier 7:

Battleships: Scharnhorst, King George V and Nelson

Cruisers: Bellfast, Fiji, Algerie and Schors (Probably Flint as well?)

Destroyers: Akatsuki, Leberecht Maass, Minsk, Lenningrad, Sims and Gadjah Madah.

Aircraft Carriers: Kaga, Saipan and Hiryu.

Note my list of ships are not in any particular order of popularity since I threw them in as I remembered their names.

 

Those are the listings I can think of. Nelson can work as an HP tank in Ranked due to her Super-Heals, not to mention, it might not be much, but 9x16inch guns are scary as all hell in Tier 7, regardless of whether they may have Bayern's Penetration or not. I would put Nagato and Colorado in, but I have no idea what the addition of British Battleships have done to make these popular choices like they once were. I didn't add Hood as I don't see her operating well in Ranked. But could be wrong.

~Hunter

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10 hours ago, Admiral_Thrawn_1 said:

Since we just had Ranked tier VI and Ranked tier VIII I am predicting next season will be tier VII so was looking over data from last time they did Ranked tier VII and am puzzled at how Scharnhorst could do a little better than Gneisenau when Gneisenau can hit harder with its guns, is slightly faster, and has the better AA?

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In that ranked season I played both Gneisenau and Scharnhorst. 

Both were effective, but carriers were relatively rare so the AA advantage wasn't as good. Plus, carriers tend to prioritise Belfasts and DDs rather than you. 

Min my opinion, the key difference between them is the guns - Scharnhorst's higher RoF and more guns means you were both more likely to hit and hit more often when shooting DDs. Killing DDs wins battles. DDs tended to risk challenging a gneis cos they had to get unlucky to die; not so the Scharnhorst where they would take damage every time. 

Otherwise Scharn and Gneis are effective against bbs if you know where to aim (upper half of hull), though gneis did generally do better against bbs and Scharnhorst got less over pens on cruisers. 

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Last T7 Ranked was a smoked BB-heavy meta. That meant BBs, Shiratsuyu (which had both smoke and TRB at the time), and Belfast (which had smoke and radar).

With the smoke firing changes to BBs, nerf to Shiratsuyu (smoke OR TRB now), and removal of Belfast from sale, a new S7 meta might be quite different. Although I still don't imagine many people at all would pick Pensacola, Shchors, or Yorck; it'll still probably be a BB+DD meta. And that in turn means that Gneisenau's ability to overmatch bow/stern armor will be valuable compared to Scharn.

Edited by Edgecase

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16 hours ago, lron_Dog_of_Jutland said:

Pick Nagato :-)

In Ranked all you need as a BB is striking power and both German BBs lack in this department. Scharnhorst is great fun in random but for ranked clearly inferior to Nagato.

Your 60 games played has taught you this? Where is your opinion coming from?

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17 hours ago, Dr_Venture said:

Smack the super structures, you can farm serious damage...if not just use HE. 

This works for the Spee too!   Same guns as the Scharn in the "pocket" BB.  I pen BBs all the time using Spee AP.  The difference isn't the inability to pen, but the fact 11 inch guns simply do less damage than the higher caliber brethren when they do pen.  

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Gneisenau can have a 96 AA rating and a lot of your DPM is in your long range AA which extends to 7.5km. It is a disgusting AA swatter when spec for it along with manual AA.

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Other interesting thought that just crossed my mind is the new French BB coming soon, the Lyon with its 5 quad turrets gving it a 16 main gun broadside capability...

That could possibly be a major wild card if Ranked is tier VII again. Since you can basically shot gun shell enemy DDs with that many main guns.

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16 hours ago, _Big_Lou_ said:

Your 60 games played has taught you this? Where is your opinion coming from?

Ah, a stats checker :-)

I have s second account and played Nagato during the last T7 ranked season for a bit. And as you know ranked games are slow and campy and on BBs mostly the sheer striking power counts. I tried both Gneisenau and Scharnhorst but in my humble opinion Nagato’s excellent alpha and good accuracy are MUCH more valuable than what the “Sisters” can do. Can’t judge on Lolorado though - didn’t try:

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scharnhorst is an absolute pleasure to play

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now that it's known rank 1 ranked battles will be t7 necro bumping thisss

both have currently run a very similar build, i have put more emphasis on main battery mods with main battery mod 1 and aiming sys mod 1, and near identical capatains each with 14 points and only difference being aft vs manual secondaries

my thoughts on this are based on random battles, and i feel that, based on my experience that the gneis holds up better against up tiers, t8 and t9 matches, than the sharn and ends up being more consistent because of it.

in the rare t7 only matches i get with the sharn i love it. up tiers i feel like graf spee pt2 

in both i shoot ap at dd's for the lolnumbers, and usually works out well for me in combination with secondaries, at least when i predict torps right x.x

nagato's guns haven't been reliable enough for me and isn't as tanky, but also haven't played it in a while. as for the lolorado is too slow for effective positioning imo.

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On 1/30/2018 at 8:59 AM, lron_Dog_of_Jutland said:

Pick Nagato :-)

In Ranked all you need as a BB is striking power and both German BBs lack in this department. Scharnhorst is great fun in random but for ranked clearly inferior to Nagato.

Thing is Nagato needs it's shell's to hit said ship :Smile_teethhappy:

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On Monday, January 29, 2018 at 4:30 PM, jason199506 said:

i am really not afraid of giving gnei my broadside

bow on gnei only has 4 guns, relatively harmless even to broadside cruisers

Only KGV/DoY/Nelson have more than 4 guns bow on, all other BBs have 4.

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