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Situational_Unawareness

Getting the hang of it

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Had a phenomenal match compared to how I usually do, even managed to break 50k damage and didn't die but since we didn't win, I didn't complete my combat mission so that stings a little but I think I'm kinda improving, or just hit a nice vein of luck today. While I'm here, when I'm hunting Destroyers should I be using my HE or AP shells? the HE breaks a lot of their stuff which is nice but most of them have last stand so, just wondering.

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17 minutes ago, AspiringCodger said:

Generally speaking, HE is the way to go against DDs.

Thought so, just wanted to make sure I wasn't missing out on some potential insta-deletes if I used AP in certain scenarios.

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49 minutes ago, Situational_Unawareness said:

 While I'm here, when I'm hunting Destroyers should I be using my HE or AP shells? the HE breaks a lot of their stuff which is nice but most of them have last stand so, just wondering.

In general you want to shoot HE at other DDS.  DD are more vulnerable to HE blast effects cuz its modules are so close together.  You are forgiven for not switching to HE in a BB when shooting at DDs since the reload is so long and because BB gun caliber is big enough that you overmatch and not have to worry about shell angles. 

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Hey guys, thanks for answering the question. They are indeed correct. HE is the way to go against enemy destroyers. AP can be used and might do some damage but players will most likely experience an over penetration that will do less damage to an enemy DD. Good luck and well played battle even if your team was not victorious. 9 Citadels? Nice!

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55 minutes ago, Situational_Unawareness said:

Had a phenomenal match compared to how I usually do, even managed to break 50k damage and didn't die but since we didn't win, I didn't complete my combat mission so that stings a little but I think I'm kinda improving, or just hit a nice vein of luck today. While I'm here, when I'm hunting Destroyers should I be using my HE or AP shells? the HE breaks a lot of their stuff which is nice but most of them have last stand so, just wondering.

image.thumb.png.e70bb2d5dd33929891cad8f6d05f1c11.png

oh nice dude! yeah the konigs is great for punching with AP.

 

Well basically for HE/AP vs destroyers consider your circumstances.

if you can afford to, HE strips their ability to retaliate by causing lots of problems. AP doesn't really do that, and I think i would only fire AP at a destroyer if i saw a better citadel opportunity nearby. using AP on a destroyer only gives it a chance to survive, you don't want to do that, they are seriously instrumental to victory.

With using HE, if your first salvo knocks their engines out, many destroyers will choose to repair that, and if you set a fire on them 5 seconds later and knock out a torpedo tube, you've basically sentenced it to death+ decreased its chance to inflict heavy damage at close range, because if it survives, it'll have a sliver of health, and probably should have just tried ramming you instead of escaping.

If you're in a battleship and have a shot on a destroyer, you should be taking that shot and not waiting 30+ seconds for that shell change. there's no point. a battleship 14 inch gun will always go through a destroyer, despite its angle.

and if you don't have time to think it's always better to just shoot at them, and let the dice fall where they may. there's always a fun and engaging chance, if you don't see that detonation signal flag, after all.

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Fire HE at DDs unless you have no choice, or are in certain IJN DDs.

The insta delete you might have seen can be accomplished by battleships firing AP directly into the bow or stern of the DD, this gives the shells time to arm and so they deal roughly 3 times as much damage. This isn't worth it in cruisers most of the time, as your HE will deal more damage than your AP, and you need not worry about bouncing with HE.

DDs do not have citadels, so you will never deal the maximum AP damage to them, even with perfect aim.

An over-pen with AP does 10% of the shells damage, a regular pen does 33%, and a citadel does 100%. HE never over-pens but otherwise follows the same rules. It also does more module damage and can set fires.

Edited by X15

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2 hours ago, Situational_Unawareness said:

when I'm hunting Destroyers should I be using my HE or AP shells?

1st off I appreciate the fact you are asking about hunting DDs while in a BB...most would tell you to run away in a BB even after they've just dodged their torps & know there is a long time before a torp reload.

By hunting DDs I assume you mean actively chasing one down as opposed to 1 just happened to come into view at a distance...for the distance one just stick to the AP round or touch the 1 button once to switch to HE for the next volley because by the time you double tap the 1 button to switch to HE odds are the DD is going to be undetected again & the HE will still be a viable option to attempt to start a fire on another target before switching back to AP.

If actively hunting then you definitely want to switch to HE to hunt a DD...

I don't advise ever using the double tap to switch ammo unless you have zero targets available & you can see the next available target coming out from behind an island w/plenty of time for the complete reload before engagement. Either BB ammo is viable against all targets & although obviously some is better against certain targets wasting the rate of fire time switching for a double click when viable ammo is ready to fly is senseless to me...your results may vary.

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If you have AP loaded and can't wait 30 seconds to reload HE, wait  a few seconds to see if the DD is going to turn. Angled DDs seem more vulnerable to AP for some reason. Also, when faced with a DD up close, drive straight for it unless you can see its torpedoes. It's better to take a fish or two on the nose than a complete broadside, plus your secondaries will be shooting at it too. Finally when there is the threat of torpedoes, even if you are on fire, hold off on that damage repair. If you take a torpedo and start flooding you will need it. 

Edited by Snargfargle
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I will only shoot AP in my BBs at DDs if I need to make a snapshot at one that I wasn't planning for.  Usually I am planning on raking a bigger ship and have AP loaded, but if a dd shows up and is close, you should almost always take the shot at it, even when your ammo choice is wrong!

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3 hours ago, Situational_Unawareness said:

Had a phenomenal match compared to how I usually do, even managed to break 50k damage and didn't die but since we didn't win, I didn't complete my combat mission so that stings a little but I think I'm kinda improving, or just hit a nice vein of luck today. While I'm here, when I'm hunting Destroyers should I be using my HE or AP shells? the HE breaks a lot of their stuff which is nice but most of them have last stand so, just wondering.

That was a nice game, hopefully they become common for you soon! :Smile_great:

To add to what others have already said...if you see a destroyer and you have AP loaded, take the shot while switching to HE for your next volley.  Most halfway decent destroyer players are going to have broken contact (by running or smoking) by the time you've switched ammo, and often-times that first salvo is going to be the easiest to land hits with (because the DD will generally be slowing down as he turns hard and/or smokes up after being detected close to a cruiser).  So never give up that first salvo just to fire more effective rounds...even a few overpens will take a noticeable chunk out of a DD's health pool.

In most battleships you're going to be best off going with AP at all times, unless you're in a scenario where HE is going to be better for several volleys (only destroyers left or in a lengthy bow-on standoff with another BB).

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3 hours ago, Snargfargle said:

Angled DDs seem more vulnerable to AP for some reason

with a broadside DD your shell would not have enough time to explode in the ship causing a overpen well the DD angles it increases the time the shell is in the ship meaning it will explode inside of it causing a normal pen. this is why the Roma's AP seems so bad it has such high muzzle velocity and pen that the shell doesnt stin in the ship for the .55? milliseconds it needs to explode

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It really depends since there is a lot of different factors involved.

For exsample:

Some BBs with low HE alpha damage (germans, Roma) usualy shouldnt bother switching to HE for DDs since the overpen damage is almost as high as (non saturated) HE normal pen damage... 

German DDs (at least with the 128mm guns) can get decent results with AP against larger (or actualy wider) DDs (Russians, Gearing/Yueyang, Germans, Aigle) for the same reason. Their HE is bad and if you get pens and not overpens your AP alpha is amazing. The same is true for Russian T9-10 DDs especially the amazing railguns of the Grozovoi (although your HE doesnt suck at least) fighting other giant DDs, especially Khabas with their 50mm belt armor. You can and WILL hurt a Khaba with DD AP or even Cruiser AP very hard. Just keep in mind that even regular DD plating will let any destroyer AP bounce of at even medium angle.

Most cruisers are better off switching to HE. Reload isnt terrible so it doesnt cost you as much DPM and especially the later 203 (or even more) shells tend to overpen only and have decent HE alpha. On top of that 203mm shells can only overmatch around 14mm of plating if at autobounce angles. That means a bow in DD can pretty much ignore your AP (aside from superstructure). This changes with the 280mm guns, that can actualy overmatch typical T10 DD bows (19mm). You can still get regular pens at some angle or on very fat DDs (or Khabas whos not only armored but also wide) but you need to find the sweetspot between autobounce and overpen so its not really a regular thing.

Generaly speaking, slower AP shells do better here US AP for exsample is often slower and heavier, thus having better bounce angles and more time to arm. German AP is normaly faster and lighter shells (with a very hard tip though). The Königsberg thus has very good shell trajectories and great penetration values at shorter range but the energy retention is a bit worse and angles make more of a difference. 

 

So here is my rules for anti DD warfare:

German BB: Literaly no reason to ever switch to HE on main guns... (not only vs dds lol). Also just manual secondary the heck outa them at 11km or so.
British BB: You are probably on HE already anways...
Roma: Dont bother switching to HE ever really...  
Everything else: Stick to what you got loaded. Only specificly switch to HE for early shots if you support capping DDs or if you know there will be only DDs to deal with it next few shots.

 

Cruisers: HE basicly. If the enemy DD isnt totaly angled I probably dont force a reload if I already got AP loaded or only have a few secs left on reload but queue up HE for the next reload.
British Cruisers are an obvious exception, since you have no HE but short fuses and better bounce angles on the AP. Note that those HE able cruisers Belfast, Perth have regular AP and thus should use HE vs DDs.

 

Harekaze with 100mm or Akizuki: AP unless you have IFHE, then HE (you do more damage vs flat broadside DDs with AP though but even 30° or so will make you bounce
German (128mm) DDs: Switch between AP and HE depending on target choice and angles. Mostly because HE is so bad...
Russian DDs: I like using AP vs selected targets on the higher tier ones (mostly Grozovoi) but only if you know what targets you can hurt and at what angle. Otherwise HE all the way.
Rest: HE basicly vs anything. It should be noted, that US DD 127mm AP does have pretty long fuses which is nice vs cruisers citadels but not so much vs superstructures or DDs.

Edited by RighteousFury42

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Post the second page of the score screen, the detailed break down.

 

I 'member, @Lert posted a 110k damage defeated game, turns out he wasted 10 min burning one single Yamato. Damage number is not what wins games, it's where the damage and when the damage lands.

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