"BB, get in my smoke", "Stupid BB, why aren't you getting in my smoke"

[Lert]

I'm not sitting in your smoke because the moment I fire that cruiser at 10km spots me, and if I hold my fire I'm useless and dead weight. Thanks for laying smoke for me but since the smoke firing changes I've not seen a situation where that same smoke wouldn't have been more useful concealming smaller, more fragile ships instead of a BB that's trying to stove people's faces in and draw fire.

</rant>

<Edit> To clarify, I understand laying smoke for a BB to give him a breather, letting him repair. That wasn't the situation I was in, I was getting shot at but I wasn't at risk.

[Guest]

I wonder how many people still don't know about the smoke changes.

[Naviss]

I like when DD's do it when trying to cover a retreating or focused BB. Give them alittle time to get out of sight and deal with fires / repair. 

But that DD needs to learn how the current game works lol. It's been awhile for him.

[Botcha]

Smoke attracts torps, little DD's can maneuver and have a better chance of avoiding...large BB's not so much. 

[Ramsalot]

Funny thing is, secondaries don't count when it comes to making your ship visible.  Fully secondary specced GK in smoke can still troll people who get closer than 12 km.  It's pretty funny to watch.

[BiggieD61]

7 minutes ago, Elegant_Winter said:

I wonder how many people still don't know about the smoke changes.

Equivalent to the number of people that don't realize it takes a few days to get ranked battles reward ships, so they feel compelled to start multiple threads over it.

[IronWolfV]

6 minutes ago, Ramsalot said:

Funny thing is, secondaries don't count when it comes to making your ship visible.  Fully secondary specced GK in smoke can still troll people who get closer than 12 km.  It's pretty funny to watch.

Most of those secondaries are 150mm guns and they only become visible around 7-8km. So that's why you can get away with that.

[Dasha_Eyes]

I've noticed this happening a lot lately. DD's laying down smoke for a BB on the offensive.

I would normally just avoid smoke unless i'm retreating trying to get a breather.

Soo I slowed down and sat in the smoke not firing, hey maybe this is a new tactic we're gonna ambush us a big ole juicy..

Nevermind, red team fired every single available torp right into the smoke, and I just embarrassed myself in front of everyone.

Even the red team was calling me an idiot.

 

[ValkyrWarframe]

Battleships in smoke aren't exactly effective since if you want to remain hidden you have to hold fire, which eliminates most of your impact to the match.

[VonSmallHausenn]

..there are 2 sides of this topic too, you know. There is the (oh and how many)burning down,shelled to hell BB,,who could have been saved by the smoke screen,,but he just keeps charging,,keeps firing,blind to the outside world and smoke screen,only to die a bit later. And also,,smoke screen on the offensive for BBs can be helpful to get into better position without detection. 

[Lert]

1 minute ago, VonSmallHausenn said:

smoke screen on the offensive for BBs can be helpful to get into better position without detection. 

You know smoke screens don't move, right? So either the BB is already at the position he needs to be, or he's out of position.

[VonSmallHausenn]

1 minute ago, Lert said:

You know smoke screens don't move, right? So either the BB is already at the position he needs to be, or he's out of position.

?? Ships moves into position,,don't just "warp" there. Getting into position under a smoke screen ,is a tactic, and very useful. 

[Royeaux]

53 minutes ago, Lert said:

I'm not sitting in your smoke because the moment I fire that cruiser at 10km spots me, and if I hold my fire I'm useless and dead weight. Thanks for laying smoke for me but since the smoke firing changes I've not seen a situation where that same smoke wouldn't have been more useful concealming smaller, more fragile ships instead of a BB that's trying to stove people's faces in and draw fire.

</rant>

<Edit> To clarify, I understand laying smoke for a BB to give him a breather, letting him repair. That wasn't the situation I was in, I was getting shot at but I wasn't at risk.

Technically you can sit behind the smoke and stealth fire, but your just asking for a torpedo sandwich at that point.

[Brhinosaurus]

38 minutes ago, Elegant_Winter said:

I wonder how many people still don't know about the smoke changes.

Over the weekend I saw two Longjiangs square off in a furious, circling knife fight.  They each launched multiple torpedo volleys at each other.  The one on my team eventually lost, got in chat and said 

"WHY ARE MY TORPS GOING UNDERNEATH YOUR [censored]ING SHIP?"

Mind you, this person has played over 1,500 battles.

 

Soooo I'm thinking a lot of people don't know how smoke works now.

[Lert]

2 minutes ago, VonSmallHausenn said:

?? Ships moves into position,,don't just "warp" there. Getting into position under a smoke screen ,is a tactic, and very useful. 

So either the smoke screen is in the position the BB needs to go and my OP applies, or the smoke screen isn't where the BB needs to go and is useless.

2 minutes ago, Sventex said:

Technically you can sit behind the smoke and stealth fire, but your just asking for a torpedo sandwich at that point.

Doesn't change the smoke firing penalty, which is 14.8km for the BB I was driving. I would be spotted regardless where the smoke screen was between me and the red team.

[Royeaux]

Just now, Lert said:

So either the smoke screen is in the position the BB needs to go and my OP applies, or the smoke screen isn't where the BB needs to go and is useless.

Doesn't change the smoke firing penalty, which is 14.8km for the BB I was driving. I would be spotted regardless where the smoke screen was between me and the red team.

Was this changed again?  When the smoke chances were introduced, it was only for firing from within smoke, and not through it.

[Lert]

Just now, Sventex said:

Was this changed again?  When the smoke chances were introduced, it was only for firing from within smoke, and not through it.

It was always for through it as well, ever since the change.

[Parliament_Funkadelic]

Damned if you do.... I leave smoke back for cruisers they roll right through it, leave smoke for low health BB's to escape...they keep firing. Unless playing in voice and/or division the dd should always keep his smoke, it just isn't the tool it used to be.

[PelicanHazard]

5 minutes ago, Lert said:

So either the smoke screen is in the position the BB needs to go and my OP applies, or the smoke screen isn't where the BB needs to go and is useless.

Option 3 that I rarely see: smokescreen laid for an outnumbered bow-on BB so they can turn without getting heavily blapped and have a chance to reposition elsewhere.

[Lert]

Just now, PelicanHazard said:

Option 3 that I rarely see: smokescreen laid for an outnumbered bow-on BB so they can turn without getting heavily blapped and have a chance to reposition elsewhere.

And I'll always applaud when a DD does that. But 1) That wasn't what vonsmallhausen was referring to and 2) patently obviously not the case in the event I was talking about in my OP.

[VonSmallHausenn]

3 minutes ago, Lert said:

And I'll always applaud when a DD does that. But 1) That wasn't what vonsmallhausen was referring to and 2) patently obviously not the case in the event I was talking about in my OP.

yes,,it does go under the same tactic. Any movement,that concealed under smoke screen,falls to this. You just don't get it?

[Lert]

Just now, VonSmallHausenn said:

yes,,it does go under the same tactic. Any movement,that concealed under smoke screen,falls to this. You just don't get it?

Any concealment which only works when you're purposely being useless and not using your ship's primary function, or broken the moment you do, is useless and much better used elsewhere. You just don't get it?

[Seadog_Supreme]

I only lay smoke for battleships that are getting the crap beaten out of them, so they can retreat. Retreating under cover of smoke was the only real life use of smoke. Ships never sat motionless in smoke while shooting in real battles.

[VonSmallHausenn]

2 minutes ago, Lert said:

Any concealment which only works when you're purposely being useless and not using your ship's primary function, or broken the moment you do, is useless and much better used elsewhere. You just don't get it?

 You have problems, i do get that :-)  If all you do is,stay far from the caps,and sniping,than yes,smoke has no use to you. Some,who moves close to,or even in, to caps,find the smoke screen very useful..to get there. You don`t have to go firing any given moment of the game,right? Or maybe you do...so smoke is really useless..for you.... 

[Lert]

14 minutes ago, VonSmallHausenn said:

 You have problems, i do get that :-)  If all you do is,stay far from the caps,and sniping,than yes,smoke has no use to you. Some,who moves close to,or even in, to caps,find the smoke screen very useful..to get there. You don`t have to go firing any given moment of the game,right? Or maybe you do...so smoke is really useless..for you.... 

*twitch*

Ok ...

1) why the personal attack?

And

2) Smoke is even more useless to aggressive players that move in. Like me.

Follow me along here. Just - try to follow me. You might need to read it slowly and picture it in your mind ...

Are you seated? Yes?

Good.

Let us begin.

*breathes*

I'm a BB. Nelson in this case. I have a smoke firing penalty of 14.8 km. There's a red cruiser 10 km from me. Like I specified in my OP. I am not in direct danger. Like I specified in my OP.

Now here comes this DD and drops smoke for me, then calls me names for not getting in it.

Now here comes the hard part - try and use your imagination and follow along.

I had three options:

A) Go sit in the smoke and hold my fire.

Result: I'm stationary, concealed, but useless, dead weight, sitting in the middle of a 'shoot all torpedoes here please' beacon. Not doing damage, not drawing dire - what good is a BB that isn't doing either of those.

B) Go sit in the smoke and fire.

Result: I'm stationary, visible and doing damage, but still a magnet for torpedoes.

C) Ignore the smoke screen and do my freaking job.

Result: I'm mobile, drawing fire away from my teammates, able to dodge torpedoes and actively doing damage.

 

Can you wrap your brain around this situation? The smoke was completely useless and using it would've put me in danger of getting torpedoed.

Let me know if I need to explain this even slower or draw you up a diagram.