Achievments for Co-op

[AdmiralThunder]

With all the recent discussions about PVE/Co-op it brought back to mind the various threads posted by PVE mains with ideas to improve/enhance the mode for those who play it. One of the things I always thought would be kind of cool is if they came up with some achievements for Co-op. Not mirrors of existing ones but rather some tailored to fit the mode. Every mode in the game BUT Co-op has them. While I know fully well this will not be seen in a good light by some is it really such a horrible thing to do? It would be something for the Co-op players to work for and achieve. 

Anyway I was bored today and felt like messing with it. Just threw a quick little list together with some samples and ideas. The awards can be made to look totally different so there is no confusion with other modes (why I used shields)and we don't need a ton of them. I actually came up with 12. 8  Standard and 4 Valiant (play off Heroic). Some are modifications of regular Random ones and a few are new/different. With over 5K Co-op games played in every tier I kind of have an idea by now what is hard/rare to do there. With that said feel free to offer changes or even your own ideas and I will try and incorporate them.

Again, just something extra for the Co-op crowd. They could be shown on the players profile page under Co-op with a new Achievments category added like there is for Random. That keeps them seperate from those and there is no confusion. WG has recently begun to improve on Co-op for us and I would like to see some kind of achievement system added like all the other modes have.  Not to brag or anything just for personal goals and fun like they are in PVP. No big rewards (ie; flags) need be given for getting them either. Heck no reward is fine. Just for S&G's I set it so Standard ones got you 2 flags and the Valiant ones got 5. Just a little something extra.

Now be nice...

Content Edited/Updated 01/29/2018

 

[pikohan]

I approve! The number of flags seems reasonable as well.

[Hiro804]

Well thought out and very reasonable recommendation!  Adds a little bonus to the players who do a lot of co-op.

[Jazzyblaster]

Great suggestions AdmiralThunder! Thanks for taking the time to share.

[dmckay]

I like the idea. Give co-op players something. I play it a lot for fun. I can only take the stress and frequent angst of Random for a few battles at a time.

[Doomlock]

Very well done, I like it. 

[lewellenfawr]

Excellent 

[Th3KrimzonDemon]

This makes entirely too much sense, so, obviously, it'll never happen.

 

It should, though.

[RipNuN2]

This makes good sense as they continue to improve the composition of coop battles and make bots more adaptive and intelligent.

[AdmiralThunder]

Thanks. Just messing around with it a bit but the premise is good I think. 

[clammboy]

Very well  thought out and a really good idea !!!

[surratus]

I'd have to consider the achievement parameters for a bit longer, but WOW, the medallions are beautifully designed! 

[AdmiralThunder]

Thanks to all again.

Just updated it with clarification on a couple of them and also the how many times it can be earned p/ battle which I forgot initially.

[YeOldeTraveller]

Great work on a quite reasonable proposal.

I hope WG gives this serious consideration.

[Kizarvexis]

I like it. Definitely hard to earn some of them, but doable with a great game and mostly higher tiers I think. I will certainly give you the feedback you asked for as I think overall, this is a very good plan. Is this like PvP where you only get flags once per 24 hours, but you can get the award multiple times in 24 hours?  I have a feeling some people will think that the flags are too many for the PvE achievements, but most of them are hard to get IMO. It might end up 1 and 3 flags if there is a huge uproar that flags are too easy to get in PvE.

 

I can see that you might want to adjust the following a bit IMO;  Bandits Down (Clear Sky), Titan (Dreadnought), Marksman (Confederate) and Leviathan (Kraken).

 

For Bandits Down, the Clear Sky achievement in PvP is the following (In a single battle, destroy more than 50% of enemy aircraft, including floatplanes launched by cruisers and battleships. You must destroy at least 30 aircraft. Can be obtained once per battle.). You have just shooting 40 planes down once per battle. Now PvE only allows ONE CV per battle instead of two that PvP allows. The T4 & T5 CVs and T6 Independence all have less than 40 planes, but the rest all do have more than 40 planes. And it looks like high tiers have double to triple the 40 amount. I would change it to shoot down 50% of the planes and make the minimum at least 40 planes as the bots are not good flyers and don't strafe at all at T6+ I understand. You might need to boost the plane amount, but I would not go above 50 as you only have one CV in PvE.

 

For Titan, the Dreadnought achievement in PvP it is the following (Receive damage exceeding 120% of your ship's normal HP from 4 or more enemy ships and survive the battle. Can be obtained once per battle.) In PvE, it is 110%, survive and win the battle. Winning the battle is pretty easy, but you just have to survive in PvP. Is surviving and winning in PvE easier than losing and surviving in PvP? That could be an issue, but I think we would need some stats on that, although I would expect the PvE requirement to be easier. Now the battles end pretty quickly in PvE, so I rarely run though all my heals, so skipping the 4 enemy ships due to the shorter PvE battles works to me. I think if you made it 120% or so of the HP, then I think that would work better IMO.

 

For Marksman, the Confederate achievement in PvP is the following (Damage at least 6 enemy ships. Damage caused to each ship must exceed 20% of her normal HP. Can be obtained once per battle.)  You have it as damage 10% each at the minimum, but you have to do that to ALL 8 of the enemy bots, instead of half the PvP red team. I think that will work, but I can see some people wanting between 10-20%. As a SWAG, I would guess it would hit 12ish%, but I can see 10% being fair as the bots tend to melt pretty fast and you have to be on the ball to beat the other players to that as well as getting at least 10% on ALL the bots.

 

For Leviathan, the Kraken achievement in PvP is the following (In a single battle, destroy five or more enemy ships. Can be obtained once per battle.) That would be 42% of the reds. In PvE it would be 75% of the reds. Since bots are easier to kill, I think this is a good percentage and would not go lower than 6 of 8 to kill. Be prepared for howls of outrage tho. :)

 

Since Operations doesn't award flags at all, that will probably be the biggest sticking point. I think that these are hard enough to be worth flags, but I believe a lot of people will not agree with that assessment. Having Operations give 2 & 5 flags for similar achievements and PvE giving 1 and 3 flags would probably mollify that, but I would guess a certain portion of the player base will reject giving flags for OPs and PvE for anything.

 

If the mouse over text for PvE & OPs achievements and the wiki related these to what you would be doing in PvP, then players that are learning would get a heads up to what sort of things to do in PvP. I have proposed in the past that having notifications that if you did X in PvE, you would earn Y achievement in PvP. Your plan would be better than mine.

[Chaos_EN2]

23 hours ago, AdmiralThunder said:

Again, just something extra for the Co-op crowd.

Very nice Admiral

[delp5117]

Nice job on this, Thunder!  Very comprehensive.

[AdmiralThunder]

Thanks again all. Nice to see a positive reception to the idea. 

4 hours ago, Kizarvexis said:

I like it. Definitely hard to earn some of them, but doable with a great game and mostly higher tiers I think. I will certainly give you the feedback you asked for as I think overall, this is a very good plan. Is this like PvP where you only get flags once per 24 hours, but you can get the award multiple times in 24 hours?  I have a feeling some people will think that the flags are too many for the PvE achievements, but most of them are hard to get IMO. It might end up 1 and 3 flags if there is a huge uproar that flags are too easy to get in PvE.

 

I can see that you might want to adjust the following a bit IMO;  Bandits Down (Clear Sky), Titan (Dreadnought), Marksman (Confederate) and Leviathan (Kraken).

 

For Bandits Down, the Clear Sky achievement in PvP is the following (In a single battle, destroy more than 50% of enemy aircraft, including floatplanes launched by cruisers and battleships. You must destroy at least 30 aircraft. Can be obtained once per battle.). You have just shooting 40 planes down once per battle. Now PvE only allows ONE CV per battle instead of two that PvP allows. The T4 & T5 CVs and T6 Independence all have less than 40 planes, but the rest all do have more than 40 planes. And it looks like high tiers have double to triple the 40 amount. I would change it to shoot down 50% of the planes and make the minimum at least 40 planes as the bots are not good flyers and don't strafe at all at T6+ I understand. You might need to boost the plane amount, but I would not go above 50 as you only have one CV in PvE.

 

For Titan, the Dreadnought achievement in PvP it is the following (Receive damage exceeding 120% of your ship's normal HP from 4 or more enemy ships and survive the battle. Can be obtained once per battle.) In PvE, it is 110%, survive and win the battle. Winning the battle is pretty easy, but you just have to survive in PvP. Is surviving and winning in PvE easier than losing and surviving in PvP? That could be an issue, but I think we would need some stats on that, although I would expect the PvE requirement to be easier. Now the battles end pretty quickly in PvE, so I rarely run though all my heals, so skipping the 4 enemy ships due to the shorter PvE battles works to me. I think if you made it 120% or so of the HP, then I think that would work better IMO.

 

For Marksman, the Confederate achievement in PvP is the following (Damage at least 6 enemy ships. Damage caused to each ship must exceed 20% of her normal HP. Can be obtained once per battle.)  You have it as damage 10% each at the minimum, but you have to do that to ALL 8 of the enemy bots, instead of half the PvP red team. I think that will work, but I can see some people wanting between 10-20%. As a SWAG, I would guess it would hit 12ish%, but I can see 10% being fair as the bots tend to melt pretty fast and you have to be on the ball to beat the other players to that as well as getting at least 10% on ALL the bots.

 

For Leviathan, the Kraken achievement in PvP is the following (In a single battle, destroy five or more enemy ships. Can be obtained once per battle.) That would be 42% of the reds. In PvE it would be 75% of the reds. Since bots are easier to kill, I think this is a good percentage and would not go lower than 6 of 8 to kill. Be prepared for howls of outrage tho. :)

 

Since Operations doesn't award flags at all, that will probably be the biggest sticking point. I think that these are hard enough to be worth flags, but I believe a lot of people will not agree with that assessment. Having Operations give 2 & 5 flags for similar achievements and PvE giving 1 and 3 flags would probably mollify that, but I would guess a certain portion of the player base will reject giving flags for OPs and PvE for anything.

 

If the mouse over text for PvE & OPs achievements and the wiki related these to what you would be doing in PvP, then players that are learning would get a heads up to what sort of things to do in PvP. I have proposed in the past that having notifications that if you did X in PvE, you would earn Y achievement in PvP. Your plan would be better than mine.

Kiz...

I tried to make them as doable as possible for all tiers. Really hard to balance them so they are (people who get on WG about this stuff should try it some time - it isn't easy).

RE: the 4 you specifically mention. I tried not to go exactly like the PVP achievements when I did sort of play off one of them. Tried to make it more relative to PVE. I don't think they should be the same as the PVP ones for 2 reasons. One because the modes are different and 2 so that there is no uproar about PVP awards in PVE. They need to be different even if similar. That can make balancing difficult though as I ran into.

Bear with me as this will be long.Want to explain how I came up with what I did...

____________________________________________________________

Bandits Down - I actually purposely went with a number vs a % of the planes shot down. I was trying to avoid % based achievements as much as possible for the simple reason of keeping it easier for WG to add these (or similar ones they come up with) if they decide to do it. Much easier to code (and people to know what to look for) shoot X# receive Y achievement. Having it be shoot at least X# and also must be ##% of all planes can be confusing. I wanted this as simple as possible for WG to implement and players to understand.  Also, with just 1 CV instead of the possibility of 2 I think a simple number makes more sense.

Making it 50% and a minimum of 40 doesn't change earning the achievement for those low tier ships. Minimum of 40 still puts it at a T5+ ship requirement which is basically what the current system would be if used for these with 50% and  30 minimum unless you shoot down the entire CV load out and a whole bunch of ship launched spotters/fighters in lower tiers.  Low tier ships that actually see a CV (T3 and T4) just don't have the AA for this type of thing even if it was just 50% or was just a low number (20).

Tried to come up with a number that included as many tiers as possible but that wasn't too easy for the highest tiers. 40, to me, seems like a good balance between hard lower and easier higher.  And to be honest 40 may be too high for Co-op even for high tiers. I have 5K+ games in Co-op and actually build my ships and Capt's for AA when the ship can benefit from it (like USN BB), yet I have not broken 40 very often. Just doesn't happen a lot. 30 or 35 would be a more achievable figure overall. If it was a % + 40 minimum it might never be earned or be ever more rare than the Clear Sky from Random??

In my 5K+ games ships I have (includes BB, CL/CA, CV, and DD from T3+)  that have shot down...

• 60+ = 1
• 50+ = 2
• 40+ = 4 
• 30+ = 8
• 20+ = 18
• 10+ = 37
• 1-10 = 37

So 1-19 is common for all tiers. 20+ it starts to drop off.  At 30+ the number takes a major dive  and again this takes into account AA Builds on ships with good AA. So I saw that once I hit 40+ planes shot down I only had 4 ships that have done it in over 5K games and that includes all of the high tiers and ships with AA specific builds that are known for murderous AA. Only 2 ships broke 50 and 1 60 and those are the Montana (54) and Iowa (65) which are 2 of the best AA ships in game with AA builds and AA spec Capt's.

40 might be a tad high for T5 and T6 but 30 is way too low for T8-T10. I erred on the side of difficulty but 35 might be a good compromise between being in reach for T5-T7 and not too easy for T8+? 50% AND a minimum # of 30 or 40 in Co-op with 1 CV is too much IMHO.

Also, and while this might be an easier one for Co-op than PVP it is something that is hard to do in Co-op, is different, and can give people something to metaphorically shoot for with fewer overall achievements to earn.  I think it is ok if this is a little easier as it is hard for Co-op and different than Clear Sky.

____________________________________________________________

Titan - yes, this is molded after Dreadnought. I think that is a really good award for Co-op as the bots shoot so well, they always seem to set fires and do massive damage salvos, and you MUST fight to win or you lose. So you take a lot of damage. I do think adding the caveat that you must survive AND win is important. One way to make it different and adds difficulty to level things with it being PVE. Wins may be easier there but they are not 100% guaranteed so it should be part of it IMO. In other words if everyone thinks winning is so easy then make it part of the requirements to add another level even if an "easy" one.

Now, with that said, I can't count the times I might have got this one as I have written it except I didn't win the battle.  To be honest I lose more games like that then I win. I usually take that kind of damage (ie; exceeding ships normal HP) when I am left alone to defend the base, or I am trying desperately to cap because we are down points with time winding down, against the angry red hoard while the rest of my "team" is out for a Sunday cruise around the map border because "bots don't go for bases or caps". Either that or I am literally alone fighting off the hoard LOL.

Now, I felt 110% + survive AND win was good for Co-op. Maybe 120% is better? You brought up something I took into consideration though and that is the games go faster so being able to heal enough times to get to 120% might be impossible? Might be hard without premium consumables for an extra heal as well and most don't run premium consumables in Co-op even at T10 (I don't).

I looked back on my screenshots of big games where I took a lot of damage and where this achievement would be appropriate. I have broken 110% more than 120% for sure but it isn't a ton of times for either. Shorter games + no premium consumables + adding winning as a requirement I felt was a good set of requirements for PVE. l really feel winning should be part of it.  PVP is harder (we all agree) so winning shouldn't be required. However, if we all agree PVE is easier, and that winning is more common, does it not make sense to have winning be a part of it?  

This was my thinking.

____________________________________________________________

Marksman - Pretty much what you said. I tried to take the Confederate achievement and scale it to better fit with what would be similar in PVE and also make it different. Bots are easier to hit than humans so it has to be more than the Confederate in random which is 6. Only 8 bots in total however on the red side so make it all 8 which is harder (more) and different (all enemy). I toyed with 7 but I have managed to damage 7 a lot while only doing 8 a few times so wanted to make sure it was scaled in difficulty/difference for PVE. Maybe 8 is too many and 7 is better? I might have erred on the difficulty side too much again? 

Doing 20% or more to all 8 enemy ships would be almost impossible though. The game goes too fast and most games you don't even see 1/2+ of the bots as they get sunk on the other side of the map. 10% however is doable with a good game where you are lucky enough to have a shot at all 8. 

____________________________________________________________

Leviathan - this is actually one that IMO could have come straight from PVP with no changes other than a name change from Kraken. IMO 5 PVE kills is equivalent to or even harder to do than 5 PVP kills simply based on total number of enemy ships available to shoot at plus how fast the games go. You seldom even get to shoot at 5 ships never mind sink 5. Also, and I am in no way trying to demean the achievement because it is special, I think it might be the most common one I have seen earned and talked about earning. It isn't so hard only the highest Unicum's ever get it. The average player can do it too and more than once. So I kept that in mind.

I thought of setting it at 4 which would be 50% of the enemy team which is more than what the 5 in PVP is (42%). However, 4 kills is pretty common in Co-op and I don't want it too easy and wanted to avoid any outrage so I decided to make it harder. So I then considered 5 which is the same as PVP, and as I said, I feel is a fair PVP vs PVE scale based on total ships and opportunities to shoot at enemy ships. Again I erred on the go harder side and to avoid uproar I made it harder yet. I then looked at the numbers and saw that 6 is doable but is not common and felt that was the winner.  

In PVP a Kraken is 42% of the red as said. If you went 5 in Co-op it would be 63% of the enemy team. So that right there is harder but not enough. 6 is 75% of the total enemy team. The most rabid anti PVE player out there can't possibly in good conscious say 6 kills is easy in Co-op.  If they do they are just being unreasonable. I looked at my own stats over 5k games to see how things shake out. I am not an amazing player nor the worst so I feel if I can do it that is a good baseline.  

This is the number of ships I show (all types = BB, CL/CA, CV, DD and all tiers T1-T10) having done X# of kills as my high. I may have done x# of kills in the same ship more than once but don't know exact count so just went with # of times my high kill for a ship is X#....

• 8 kills = 0 (never heard of or seen anyone get all 8 in Co-op)
• 7 kills = 0 (have only heard of or seen 1 maybe 2 in total )
• 6 kills = 9
• 5 kills = 22
• 4 kills = 32

I think 6 kills is reasonable. Doable but not too easy.

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Actually some of the Op's award flags and/or camo for receiving stars. You don't get them for the achievements but the achievements are a one time only thing anyway. The Co-op ones I suggest are more like the PVP ones that can be earned multiple times even if only once p/ game. Scenario/Op's achievements are a one and done it says. You can get flags/camo in Op's though by getting stars (or you could).

I considered the 1/3 vs 2/5 but felt 2/5 was reasonable. 1/3 would be ok but I don't think the 2/5 is too much. Aren't the flags given in Random 10?

____________________________________________________________

Thanks for your well thought out feedback. I hope my long winded, rambling, explanations explain my thought process. 

[Kizarvexis]

56 minutes ago, AdmiralThunder said:

Thanks again all. Nice to see a positive reception to the idea. 

Kiz...

I tried to make them as doable as possible for all tiers. Really hard to balance them so they are (people who get on WG about this stuff should try it some time - it isn't easy).

RE: the 4 you specifically mention. I tried not to go exactly like the PVP achievements when I did sort of play off one of them. Tried to make it more relative to PVE. I don't think they should be the same as the PVP ones for 2 reasons. One because the modes are different and 2 so that there is no uproar about PVP awards in PVE. They need to be different even if similar. That can make balancing difficult though as I ran into.

Bear with me as this will be long.Want to explain how I came up with what I did...

____________________________________________________________

Bandits Down - I actually purposely went with a number vs a % of the planes shot down. I was trying to avoid % based achievements as much as possible for the simple reason of keeping it easier for WG to add these (or similar ones they come up with) if they decide to do it. Much easier to code (and people to know what to look for) shoot X# receive Y achievement. Having it be shoot at least X# and also must be ##% of all planes can be confusing. I wanted this as simple as possible for WG to implement and players to understand.  Also, with just 1 CV instead of the possibility of 2 I think a simple number makes more sense.

Making it 50% and a minimum of 40 doesn't change earning the achievement for those low tier ships. Minimum of 40 still puts it at a T5+ ship requirement which is basically what the current system would be if used for these with 50% and  30 minimum unless you shoot down the entire CV load out and a whole bunch of ship launched spotters/fighters in lower tiers.  Low tier ships that actually see a CV (T3 and T4) just don't have the AA for this type of thing even if it was just 50% or was just a low number (20).

Tried to come up with a number that included as many tiers as possible but that wasn't too easy for the highest tiers. 40, to me, seems like a good balance between hard lower and easier higher.  And to be honest 40 may be too high for Co-op even for high tiers. I have 5K+ games in Co-op and actually build my ships and Capt's for AA when the ship can benefit from it (like USN BB), yet I have not broken 40 very often. Just doesn't happen a lot. 30 or 35 would be a more achievable figure overall. If it was a % + 40 minimum it might never be earned or be ever more rare than the Clear Sky from Random??

In my 5K+ games ships I have (includes BB, CL/CA, CV, and DD from T3+)  that have shot down...

• 60+ = 1
• 50+ = 2
• 40+ = 4 
• 30+ = 8
• 20+ = 18
• 10+ = 37
• 1-10 = 37

So 1-19 is common for all tiers. 20+ it starts to drop off.  At 30+ the number takes a major dive  and again this takes into account AA Builds on ships with good AA. So I saw that once I hit 40+ planes shot down I only had 4 ships that have done it in over 5K games and that includes all of the high tiers and ships with AA specific builds that are known for murderous AA. Only 2 ships broke 50 and 1 60 and those are the Montana (54) and Iowa (65) which are 2 of the best AA ships in game with AA builds and AA spec Capt's.

40 might be a tad high for T5 and T6 but 30 is way too low for T8-T10. I erred on the side of difficulty but 35 might be a good compromise between being in reach for T5-T7 and not too easy for T8+? 50% AND a minimum # of 30 or 40 in Co-op with 1 CV is too much IMHO.

Also, and while this might be an easier one for Co-op than PVP it is something that is hard to do in Co-op, is different, and can give people something to metaphorically shoot for with fewer overall achievements to earn.  I think it is ok if this is a little easier as it is hard for Co-op and different than Clear Sky.

____________________________________________________________

 

 

Oh no, I agree you put a lot of thought into this and I can see where you are being fair.

For Bandits down, I think that the 50% requirement is there in PvP so that at the higher tiers, multiple players can not get the reward in the same battle. I would just suggest doing the same for PvE so you don't have multiple players getting the reward in the same battle. I agree that 40 planes is probably fine, but with some T10's having around 100 or more planes, I can see people pushing for 50, which puts it at T6+. Also the bots don't strafe I understand and at higher tiers the player can so that may be a reason to bump the planes to 50.

[Kizarvexis]

1 hour ago, AdmiralThunder said:

I'm going to break these replies up so it won't be a wall of text on my part. :)

____________________________________________________________

Titan - yes, this is molded after Dreadnought. I think that is a really good award for Co-op as the bots shoot so well, they always seem to set fires and do massive damage salvos, and you MUST fight to win or you lose. So you take a lot of damage. I do think adding the caveat that you must survive AND win is important. One way to make it different and adds difficulty to level things with it being PVE. Wins may be easier there but they are not 100% guaranteed so it should be part of it IMO. In other words if everyone thinks winning is so easy then make it part of the requirements to add another level even if an "easy" one.

Now, with that said, I can't count the times I might have got this one as I have written it except I didn't win the battle.  To be honest I lose more games like that then I win. I usually take that kind of damage (ie; exceeding ships normal HP) when I am left alone to defend the base, or I am trying desperately to cap because we are down points with time winding down, against the angry red hoard while the rest of my "team" is out for a Sunday cruise around the map border because "bots don't go for bases or caps". Either that or I am literally alone fighting off the hoard LOL.

Now, I felt 110% + survive AND win was good for Co-op. Maybe 120% is better? You brought up something I took into consideration though and that is the games go faster so being able to heal enough times to get to 120% might be impossible? Might be hard without premium consumables for an extra heal as well and most don't run premium consumables in Co-op even at T10 (I don't).

I looked back on my screenshots of big games where I took a lot of damage and where this achievement would be appropriate. I have broken 110% more than 120% for sure but it isn't a ton of times for either. Shorter games + no premium consumables + adding winning as a requirement I felt was a good set of requirements for PVE. l really feel winning should be part of it.  PVP is harder (we all agree) so winning shouldn't be required. However, if we all agree PVE is easier, and that winning is more common, does it not make sense to have winning be a part of it?  

This was my thinking.

____________________________________________________________

 

 

I agree that survive and win is the best path for a reward of this type. Doing it any other way would be bad. I was saying that PvP you can lose and get the award if you survive. I think surviving in PvE with 110% damage is easier than doing 120% in PvP and surviving win or lose. So I would make the percentage the same at 120% and survive and win. PvE games are shorter so I think that offsets the have 4 ships shoot you as well as it is harder to get that far down in PvE and repair it all back before the game ends. So what if it was between 110% and 120%? Say 112% to 115%?

[Kizarvexis]

1 hour ago, AdmiralThunder said:

 

Marksman - Pretty much what you said. I tried to take the Confederate achievement and scale it to better fit with what would be similar in PVE and also make it different. Bots are easier to hit than humans so it has to be more than the Confederate in random which is 6. Only 8 bots in total however on the red side so make it all 8 which is harder (more) and different (all enemy). I toyed with 7 but I have managed to damage 7 a lot while only doing 8 a few times so wanted to make sure it was scaled in difficulty/difference for PVE. Maybe 8 is too many and 7 is better? I might have erred on the difficulty side too much again? 

Doing 20% or more to all 8 enemy ships would be almost impossible though. The game goes too fast and most games you don't even see 1/2+ of the bots as they get sunk on the other side of the map. 10% however is doable with a good game where you are lucky enough to have a shot at all 8. 

 

 

Naw, damaging all 8 is fair and 10% is a good figure I believe. I think that some will think it too low, which is why I said that it might need to go as high as 12ish%, possibly. There are people that will want 20% on all 8 bots and I agree that is too much.

[AdmiralThunder]

@Kizarvexis 

[Kizarvexis]

1 hour ago, AdmiralThunder said:

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Leviathan - this is actually one that IMO could have come straight from PVP with no changes other than a name change from Kraken. IMO 5 PVE kills is equivalent to or even harder to do than 5 PVP kills simply based on total number of enemy ships available to shoot at plus how fast the games go. You seldom even get to shoot at 5 ships never mind sink 5. Also, and I am in no way trying to demean the achievement because it is special, I think it might be the most common one I have seen earned and talked about earning. It isn't so hard only the highest Unicum's ever get it. The average player can do it too and more than once. So I kept that in mind.

I thought of setting it at 4 which would be 50% of the enemy team which is more than what the 5 in PVP is (42%). However, 4 kills is pretty common in Co-op and I don't want it too easy and wanted to avoid any outrage so I decided to make it harder. So I then considered 5 which is the same as PVP, and as I said, I feel is a fair PVP vs PVE scale based on total ships and opportunities to shoot at enemy ships. Again I erred on the go harder side and to avoid uproar I made it harder yet. I then looked at the numbers and saw that 6 is doable but is not common and felt that was the winner.  

In PVP a Kraken is 42% of the red as said. If you went 5 in Co-op it would be 63% of the enemy team. So that right there is harder but not enough. 6 is 75% of the total enemy team. The most rabid anti PVE player out there can't possibly in good conscious say 6 kills is easy in Co-op.  If they do they are just being unreasonable. I looked at my own stats over 5k games to see how things shake out. I am not an amazing player nor the worst so I feel if I can do it that is a good baseline.  

This is the number of ships I show (all types = BB, CL/CA, CV, DD and all tiers T1-T10) having done X# of kills as my high. I may have done x# of kills in the same ship more than once but don't know exact count so just went with # of times my high kill for a ship is X#....

• 8 kills = 0 (never heard of or seen anyone get all 8 in Co-op)
• 7 kills = 0 (have only heard of or seen 1 maybe 2 in total )
• 6 kills = 9
• 5 kills = 22
• 4 kills = 32

I think 6 kills is reasonable. Doable but not too easy.

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Actually some of the Op's award flags and/or camo for receiving stars. You don't get them for the achievements but the achievements are a one time only thing anyway. The Co-op ones I suggest are more like the PVP ones that can be earned multiple times even if only once p/ game. Scenario/Op's achievements are a one and done it says. You can get flags/camo in Op's though by getting stars (or you could).

I considered the 1/3 vs 2/5 but felt 2/5 was reasonable. 1/3 would be ok but I don't think the 2/5 is too much. Aren't the flags given in Random 10?

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Thanks for your well thought out feedback. I hope my long winded, rambling, explanations explain my thought process. 

 

Oh I agree that 6 is very fair for this task and for the same reasons you said. There will be that rabid PvP'r that will say killing 75% of the team is not enough, but they are not being realistic. Oh yeah, 6 is doable, but not easy, just what this task needs.

 

As I understand it, OPs only gives you the award when you first earn the stars. When the mission rolls around again, I don't think you get anything new.

 

Now PvP is limited to one set of flags per award in a 24 hour period, so I think OPs and PvE flag awards should be the same. You can earn the achievement multiple times in 24 hours, but only get one set of flags in PvP in 24 hours.

 

There is the idea that Ops is harder than PvE, so that is why I was thinking of changing the flag amounts for each. I don't find OPs that hard to get 5 stars on, so I think that the flags could be the same.

 

No, I enjoyed reading your posts and hope I was clearer in these posts than I was in the first one.

 

[AdmiralThunder]

2 minutes ago, Kizarvexis said:

 

Oh I agree that 6 is very fair for this task and for the same reasons you said. There will be that rabid PvP'r that will say killing 75% of the team is not enough, but they are not being realistic. Oh yeah, 6 is doable, but not easy, just what this task needs.

 

As I understand it, OPs only gives you the award when you first earn the stars. When the mission rolls around again, I don't think you get anything new.

 

Now PvP is limited to one set of flags per award in a 24 hour period, so I think OPs and PvE flag awards should be the same. You can earn the achievement multiple times in 24 hours, but only get one set of flags in PvP in 24 hours.

 

There is the idea that Ops is harder than PvE, so that is why I was thinking of changing the flag amounts for each. I don't find OPs that hard to get 5 stars on, so I think that the flags could be the same.

 

No, I enjoyed reading your posts and hope I was clearer in these posts than I was in the first one.

 

Nope you were very clear in all. Was just explaining how I came up with what I did and then compared it to what you said. 

Yup, the flags need to be limited the way they are in PVP. 

[Kizarvexis]

21 minutes ago, AdmiralThunder said:

Nope you were very clear in all. Was just explaining how I came up with what I did and then compared it to what you said. 

Yup, the flags need to be limited the way they are in PVP. 

Shiny. 

 

Sorry, couldn't resist.