Have lost my MOJO with the Clemson

[AMajor]

Up to the Farragut with the USN dd line (fun ship but intense and challenging for me so far).  Been learning other dd lines in order to know how to kill them (LOVING the Derski's torps and the Phra Ruang's smoke).  I've also been trying (mostly unsuccessfully) to figure out how to play the IJN torp boat line.  In the Omaha in the USN Cruisers and loving her.

With all of this learning, I've seem to have lost my ability to drive my Clemson.  I love this little ship, but I don't seem to be able to drive her very well lately.  She has my most experienced Captain (14 pts) and yet I'm dying more than I should, missing more shots, and questioning where I should be on the map during battles.  I hate this.  The Clemson is a seal clubber and I'm driving her as a newbie.

1) What is your suggestion for a 14 pt Captain for the Clemson for skills?

'2) Should I go back down to Co-Op and play some games there?

3) How about the Training room?  Should I spend some time there?

The Clemson is (was) my comfort ship.  Now, she's just frustrating. 

[Admiral_Thrawn_1]

Preventive Maintenance, Last Stand, Torpedo Reload,  Concealment Expert, and Demolition Expert would be good for 14 point Captain, or course you will also want Expert Marksman skill as well as Superintendent.

[desmo_2]

It is very difficult to coach your playing with what little you provided, and without a replay.

I'll give some blanket advice, then.  If you are being sunk too often and too soon, you are likely pushing too aggressively.  You are a destroyer so you need to be in front spotting and pushing caps.  However, several DD's will have better concealment and will see you before you see them.  Clemson has a lot of offensive firepower, so this isn't too much of a problem unless there is more than one DD, or if they are supported by nearby big ships.  Before the game starts, know what red DD's you are up against and how many of them.  Plan your initial push accordingly.  Sometimes you can be a little bolder if there isn't much DD opposition.

Plan your engagements so you can have most of your guns ready and on target.  If I am attacking X spot from Y position, I know one side of my ship is probably going to be facing the initial engagement.  Get all of your guns on target ahead of time.

When in a gun battle with other DD's, don't stay broadside.  Turn to fire your guns, then point your nose at the target.  When you are reloaded, turn and fire as many guns as you can, and repeat.  Change your speed and turn to make it harder for them to hit you.  You might outlast another DD by slugging it out and trading shot for shot, but you won't have much health left for every other red ship.  DD's don't have a large health pool, so try to protect what you have.  If you have to smoke up when there is a red DD nearby, don't sit in the smoke while showing your side to the DD.  Once you smoke, you have to assume it will draw torpedoes.  Point your nose to where you think the DD was so if he does launch torps into your smoke, you are a much smaller target.

Clemson has torps on both sides.  During many attacks it is beneficial to fire torps from one side, then turn so you can fire torps from the other side at the same target.  That is a lot of fish, and should land you several hits (if not a Devastating Strike) on any battleship or cruiser.

If you have support and your spotting isn't crucial, get yourself in range of several targets, then pop smoke and blaze away with your guns.  You have to have the benefit of someone else's spotting for this to work.  If you have no support and you pop smoke, you will lose sight of all those targets.  Distant team mates will also lose that visibility and won't be happy that you just closed your eyes, taking away their targets, as well.

Good luck!

 

[AMajor]

My latest game in the Clemson.  It was a Coop battle so take it for what it's worth.  I'm looking for suggestions on tactics and strategy. 

20180128_172939_PASD019-Clemson-1920_13_OC_new_dawn.wowsreplay

[Harv72b]

17 hours ago, Admiral_Thrawn_1 said:

Preventive Maintenance, Last Stand, Torpedo Reload,  Concealment Expert, and Demolition Expert would be good for 14 point Captain, or course you will also want Expert Marksman skill as well as Superintendent.

This.  The Clemson already has a very fast reload, along with a torpedo reload booster (aka turning the ship around).

5 hours ago, AMajor said:

My latest game in the Clemson.  It was a Coop battle so take it for what it's worth.  I'm looking for suggestions on tactics and strategy.

I'll check out your replay in a bit, but some general advice (along with the excellent advice @desmo_2 provided above):

• Always use premium smoke.  You'll need the extra charge, and you'll need the shorter cooldown.
• Abuse the hell out of that smoke.  A very significant portion of the tier V & below crowd have no idea what to do about a destroyer spitting out HE at them, and so they'll generally either dump torps into the smoke and ignore you (if there are any ships nearby with torpedoes, expect them to come in and angle appropriately), ignore you outright, or charge right at you allowing your own torpedoes to come into play.
• Play cautiously in the beginning of games, particularly Domination matches.  A Clemson with a good commander & a captain who knows what they're doing (you) is going to be the strongest ship in the game (unless there's a Gremmy), but going for those early caps leaves you open to suffering too much damage when you get focused by multiple enemies (or torpedoed by your teammates).  Avoid the B cap, and whenever possible allow another DD from your team to lead the way in.  Then once they've discovered what you're up against & every red ship in the area is already targeting them, you start doing your work. 
• Never use your speed boost to try for an early cap; save it in case you need it to escape from an early cap.
• AP against broadside cruisers <8km away, and AP into the superstructure of battleships which are already burning nicely.  You can citadel pretty much every cruiser you'll see that isn't named "St. Louis".
• Your ideal smoke-firing scenario occurs when multiple enemy ships are pushing into you and 2-3 teammates.  If you're undetected, chop your speed down 1/4 and wait for them to get right up to your detection range, then pop your smoke.  Once the lead ship gets within 7km or so of you, launch your torpedoes on whichever side of your ship is facing them, and then start shuttling back and forth within the smoke screen to get your other two launchers into play.  Let them have it with those as soon you're lined up (even among the rare low-tier battleship players who understand the concept of dodging torpedoes, many forget that you have 4 sets in total).  An added benefit to doing this is that it should get your bow pointed away from the enemy so that you can sprint out of there when your smoke is about to dissipate.
• If you're already in smoke or are already detected by aircraft, turn your AA on.  It stinks, so you will very rarely actually shoot one down, but you will convince a lot of skittish new carrier players to pull their planes back.
• Do not bother with your torpedoes when you're in a knife fight with another DD, unless it's a last gasp effort when there's no way possible for you to survive.  In the time it takes you to switch to torps, line them up on where you think the other DD is heading, launch them, switch back to guns, and get your aiming point back, you could have fired at least 3-4 gun volleys.  The torpedoes are rarely going to hit the other DD anyway, so take the guaranteed damage.
• On the flip side, always expect an enemy DD involved in a close-range fight with you to launch torpedoes.  If his guns go silent and/or you see the torps launching when zoomed in, immediately chop your engines to full reverse and turn in, then back up to flank speed 2-3 seconds later...at those tiers, this maneuver will dodge short-range torp launches nearly every time.
• Make sure you have your minimap set up to show the last spotted location for enemy ships and ship names (both available in the minimap settings).  Having those two features on + paying attention to that minimap will help you avoid a lot of bad situations (i.e., closing on a helpless Isokaze only to discover too late the Kuma lurking just on the other side of that island, and/or the enemy Clemson just outside of detection range.
• I'm assuming you've figured this one out already, but don't try charging a battleship over open water for a torpedo run.  Even if it works, between his secondaries, his nearby teammates, and his main guns you're going to lose too much health getting it done.  Instead just pop your smoke and let him come to you (or brutalize him with guns as he tries to escape).
• If you ever do accidentally find yourself inside 4km against a battleship with his guns pointing the wrong way (at you) and no smoke available, pop your speed boost and wiggle your way around his bow or stern.  You're going to take some damage, but you're probably going to take far less damage than you would trying to turn to get torpedoes off.  Once you've crossed his tee, there's no way for him to get his guns lined back up on you before he's eaten the 6 torpedoes you can now pump into him with impunity (obviously this doesn't apply when there are enemy destroyers and/or cruisers nearby; in that scenario you're going to die regardless to just try to get your torps off as quickly as possible).
• Your torpedoes reload remarkably quickly.  Don't be afraid of letting them loose at where you think an enemy ship might be approaching from when you're skulking around between islands.

I'll edit this post if I find any other noteworthy suggestions after watching your replay.

As always: win, lose, or draw, have fun!

 

EDIT: Okay, keeping in mind that a lot of "rules" change when you're playing Co-op because the bots just aren't very good (and are very predictable):

1. The only time you should be traveling at 1/2 speed in a Clemson is when you're setting up an ambush against an enemy ship about to clear an island.  Other than that, it's either flank speed or 1/4 speed & less (if you're inside smoke or firing undetected over an island).  Going B is perfectly okay in a Co-op match because that's where basically all the bots will go, but go there at full speed or don't go there at all.
2. You passed up a lot of good torpedo shots, and instead fired off a lot of bad ones.  When you pop your smoke already inside torpedo range of a battleship or cruiser, those torpedoes are the first thing you want to fire.  First because that's your hardest-hitting weapon, second because you want to knock his health down before your teammates take too much of it, and most importantly because that will allow you to reload the tubes and fire them again (if need be) before your smoke runs out.  When you finally did launch them at that cruiser (and since he was broadside you should have been firing AP instead of HE shells), his health was so low that there was no way he was going to survive long enough for the torpedoes to arrive--against a cruiser that's already being focused by your team & is losing health rapidly, just stick with your guns.
3. Once the cruiser died, there was no need to look in the direction of that red destroyer--once again, his health was already very low and there were multiple teammates firing on him, meaning that by the time you rounded that island he was already going to be dead.  Instead you should have been focusing on those battleships closing on your other side and setting up torpedo shots on them (preferably using the large island in the middle of B cap to mask their approach to the targets and shield you from their secondaries).
4. When you did swing your attention to the battleships, the first one was already close enough to launch torpedoes at.  Remember, your torps will travel 5.5km, but when a target is sailing directly at you he will close quite a bit of distance by the time your fish run out of gas...in scenarios like that, your torpedo "range" is more like 7km.
5. When you got sighted without smoke available and made your decision to run out of B cap & put the island between you and the enemy BBs, you should have been firing that whole time (besides launching your torpedoes).  You're not going to get undetected until you reach that island anyway, so get in some damage and hopefully light some fires while you run.
6. Speaking of lighting fires, you're aiming much too low with your HE rounds.  Against battleships and most cruisers, HE fired directly into the armor on the sides of their hulls is just going to shatter harmlessly (and will not start fires)--aim for their superstructure (the "buildings" above their decks) instead, where your HE will penetrate the much thinner armor and actually do damage, in addition to potentially starting fires.
7. When you did duck behind the island and circle back, you exposed yourself to far more potential damage than you needed to.  The battleships were still charging right at that gap and were still sighted by friendlies, so stay in cover behind the island and launch before they've detected you.  You can get away with what you did there against bots, but most human players will punish you severely for sailing right out in front of them before stopping & setting your smoke screen.
8. Again, you waited far too long to launch your torpedoes when you did get back out in front of the BBs--at close ranges like that against larger ships, torpedoes are your primary weapons...they should always be fired first.  You were literally doing the opposite of what one should do in those scenarios: firing your guns until the battleships were almost dead, and only then launching torpedoes.
9. Once those two battleships were sunk and there was only the one remaining (plus the carrier), you needed to pop your speed boost to get in range as quickly as possible.  And then, the instant that battleship got within gun range you need to be opening up--he's already engaged with two of your teammates so his guns are pointing away from you.  With everyone else on your team (including the carrier) already targeting that last BB, there is no way you are ever going to close to within torpedo range before he's sunk.  So get in what damage you can.

I'm not sure if you're just playing so timidly because of your recent stretch of poor results or if this is your typical playing style in gunboats, but yeah--there's a lot of things that need to be corrected if you're going to improve at this game.  Not to be harsh, because we all struggle from time to time and there is nobody in this community who doesn't have room for improvement, but there are some pretty basic things which need fixing here.  Which is not a major issue, because you're already here asking for ways to improve (and within the WoWs community, believe me--that's extremely rare compared to people who blame the game itself or their teammates or whatever).

I'm going to link one of my all-time favorite WoWs videos for you.  This was made quite some time ago and so some things no longer apply (such as the changes which have been made to commander skills), but most of the advice in it still remains true.  And as a bonus it's also absolutely hilarious.

 

 

[desmo_2]

@AMajor

I decided to provide you with an example of my Clemson game play in hopes it might help you somehow.  Disclaimer - I am no unicum expert.  This replay was my 2nd Clemson game today.  The first one I didn't post because I didn't have premium consumables (when I play Clemson it is frequently in Co-op) and our team absolutely steam-rolled the other team.  We lost no ships, killed half of theirs, and the game was too short since we hammered them to zero points.  Not much fun.  This game, however, lasts a bit longer. 

A few things to highlight from this replay:

1. I charge the C cap immediately, drop torps at an approaching Duguay-Trouin, and smoke up.  I also see the Isokaze, which is an important target.  I disregard the Duguay and focus-fire the DD.  My torps destroy the Duguay (First Blood, yay!).
2. The Isokaze is a real threat to our victory.  So, I focus my fire on him, even ignoring a broadside Omaha in the process.  I am hidden in smoke, but even though I am broadside to a dangerous torpedo DD, I am using the islands to block any incoming torps.  I kill him and we cap C.
3. I make a bit of a YOLO rush on the Kaiser.  When I torp him with my port side torps, notice how I launch one narrow spread, change my aim a bit, and launch a wide spread.  I don't care if I nuke him immediately, but I do want a few hits.  As it turns out, I didn't get either.  So, I rush in for a starboard side torp attack.  I keep my bow at him to try to reduce my target size, and fire one set of torps.  I hold the other set because if I launched them they would be directly on his bow, which reduces my hit chances.  I push around his nose, get a look at a nice, juicy broadside, and launch the killers.
4. The Omaha has derp'ed and is stuck on the border.  I launch one set of torps (the other set wasn't necessary), and since he is showing me some broadside, I shoot AP at his waterline.  I know my AP will penetrate Omaha's broadside, but I wouldn't have tried that on a battleship.  Torps hit him, he gone.
5. Now I check the mini-map.  We have B and C, but 3 of our ships are running off to chase a shiny CV, leaving B completely open to re-cap.  Even though the game appears to be decided, I chose to run to protect B (using engine boost).  Watch your mini-map, and use what it tells you.  As it turned out, the reds staged a bit of a resistance to our "sure win".
6. The red Clemson at A kills our BB and worries me a bit.  I try to close in to attack, but I see the Iron Duke will probably kill me if I keep pushing in.  So, when I get detected I pop smoke and fire at the Iron Duke.  I can't see the DD, and that concerns me.  I keep my nose pointed at his last known location in case he tries to torp me, and I try to convince the carrier to spot him with this planes.  We eventually locate him, I fire and miss, and lose my chance for a Kraken when a team mate finishes the job.
7. Now the outcome is certain.  To rake in more points, I move to cap A, pop smoke, and farm some damage on the Iron Duke by shooting HE at his superstructure.

I end up with 4 kills and finish #1 on my team.  A good game, but there are always things I could have done better.

https://replayswows.com/replay/15638#stats

 

[Shield380]

[WolfofWarship]

Sorry to hear that @AMajor! I hope that the others have given you good advice and that you'll get your mojo back very soon!

[AMajor]

Thanks to all for the help.  Attached is not a replay but my results.  I did not win a lot in Random play tonight but I got better because I recognized my mistakes and corrected them.

This game can get frustrating.  We all want to do well and be good team mates (at least I hope that most of us want to).

FYI - the fact that my team lost doesn't diminish what we did.  Two of us were attacking when we ran out of points.  Our team melted early and we rallied back.  Another 45 seconds and I would have wounded a BB and my team-mate would killed a cruiser.