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IronMike11B4O

Cruiser play on Ocean Map

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Oh crap, oh crap detected by 3 oh crap, whew they targeted the guy behind me then blap there goes 2/3rds of your health. Oh DD smoke hydro up, thanks for the smoke DD! Pew pew, smokes almost out manuever to Kite away, more pew pew Battle ends 3 minutes later with me either sunk or having just done massive damage. People hate this map but I love it. Shoot, move or die as opposed to the snooze fest of shatter. Shatter like many of the high tier maps is a snooze fest, the oh look I'm in a DM let me go camp behind the island and Radar the entire cap, camping snooze fest. MORE OCEAN please.

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Last time I saw that map I was in Aoba in a Tier VIII match.  I am too aggressive for that. I ought to have sat and done nothing until late in the game, but I tried to participate.  Problem being that Aoba has to get closer than other ships to shoot, with the result being out in no mans land between the fleets and having the entire enemy team shooting at me.  Well, shooting at me for a short time.

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Played one today in division with Hindenburg, on the Ocean map.  Hindenburg got over 200k damage, high caliber, confederate, and bunch of others.  Top XP.

I remember myself doing pretty good on Ocean map in Zao and Moskva.

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Most high tier cruisers have the range and accuracy to contribute on Ocean.  You just have to fight the temptation to chase DDs into caps in front of the entire team.

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Worst day. Playing Atlanta, got Ocean 3 times in a row. I almost threw my keyboard through my monitor.

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Ocean map forces teamplay.

Smoking the teammates and scouting as a DD.

Giving fire support to help focus fire a target, protect the fleet with hydro and AA as a cruiser.

Tank and be an area denial as a BB.

Sure in random battles this never works. Because obvious reasons for experienced players.

But people are more worried during ocean matches to make a whine clash in the chat. That's when i get dev. strikes in that map. :fish_haloween:

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Kite and burn. Try and lure half of the opposing team your way while the rest of your team takes the first half out. You kite some more, burn some more, then you die and watch your team win because you and one other guy in a BB lured them.

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Last time I saw Ocean was before the Commander rework... 

While PT didn't exist, Stealth Firing did. So that help a tiny bit. Although just because a Cruiser could Stealth Fire at a BB, doesn't mean that you won't get spotted. A Red DD might start stealth firing in return because they're in your gun bloom spotting. 

Anyways, tips for Cruisers on Ocean?

1. Stay on the flanks. If you're mid-map you're going to have a bad time. 

2. PT gives you an incredible amount of Timing information. If the value jumps above 1 stop shooting and run. Hopefully it's not a DD Hunting and Tracking you, because unless you're pressing you might never find them. 

Depending how far on the flank you are, once that PT indicator jumps you have roughly 15s to 25s to disengage from the 'new' attackers depending on their class. 

Roughly 5-10s to rotate their Turrets, 10-15s for shell travel time to your ship. 

If timed properly, and there's no DDs spotting your ship, that should be enough time to either drop into stealth OR only have to dodge 1 salvo. Provided you stop guns and allow your ship to stealth up. 

3. If there's a DD spotting you, try to force the Red ship's shooting you to expose a Broadside to your teammates. 

Believe it or not, an isolated Cruiser can make the Red's forget their on Ocean with no islands for cover. If you're in a position where you're the "XP Piñata" make sure they're swinging and missing while stretching their lines. 

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Cruisers playing at long range constantly kiting and changing speed and direction are hard to hit. This is useful for your team, especially if it's a high value or easily killed target... everyone wants a piece and will waste shots into the ocean all day for the chance to delete you. I grew to love the Pensa (I know right?) for this reason. It's a floating citadel, but it's punchy and has an impressive rudder shift. Run out into view, watch your priority target jump up and start dancing. Watch ships you know are targeting you with big guns and specifically dodge them (turn as soon as you see smoke). Even if you aren't pumping out a huge amount of damage due to the range, you are lowering the dpm of the enemy team... and that's all wide-open maps are testing, who can punch out more damage as a team first. Not super engaging as a mechanic, but sometimes you can just hear the blood pressure of the BB captain who just missed their 3rd salvo on you shoot up... and that's super-entertaining.

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We need more Ocean.

The maps in this game could stand losing some of the land masses on it.  Every new map that comes out is more "World of Tank-ish" than the one before it.  People complain all the time about camping but fail to accept that islands in certain arrangements are the number one enabler of it.  Then, you get a map that suits a maneuvering naval fighting match, where you're forced to keep moving and no one can park and hide, and yet some people cry...

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1 hour ago, Kuckoo said:

We need more Ocean.

The maps in this game could stand losing some of the land masses on it.  Every new map that comes out is more "World of Tank-ish" than the one before it.  People complain all the time about camping but fail to accept that islands in certain arrangements are the number one enabler of it.  Then, you get a map that suits a maneuvering naval fighting match, where you're forced to keep moving and no one can park and hide, and yet some people cry...

I feel it's moreso the height of the Islands. Sure some ships can exploit islands better than others, Atlanta comes to mind, but they're very important for generating Torpedo and Citadel protection. 

The height of islands on some maps create to large of a detection shadow. If they were low enough for moderate protection but less of a detection shadow "parking" near one wouldn't be as problematic as it is for some matches. 

On some of the older maps they are so tall and wide only the old Mogamis and Clevelands were able to lob over them when ATF affected their Main Batteries. Sure having a massive detection shadow is great on smaller maps to conceal movements, but a fair number of larger maps have small islands that are also incredibly tall. It's great when you need to get out of Dodge, but assistance from friendlies is near impossible to provide return fire in most cases. 

An "Ocean" map with "shallow reefs" might be an interesting map if created. Minimal cover that everyone can lob over at ranges BUT upclose tall enough to shield some citadels. 

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42 minutes ago, Ivlerlin said:

An "Ocean" map with "shallow reefs" might be an interesting map if created. Minimal cover that everyone can lob over at ranges BUT upclose tall enough to shield some citadels. 

I love Ocean. It's after all the most realistic map in the game. :cap_like:

I would like to see more wide-open maps with small, low islands. Kind of like the ones in the SE corner of Solomons, the west side of Estuary, or the east side of Hotspot.

 

160510_vod_orig_solomonislands_lej_16x9_992.jpg

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I used to HATE Ocean...until I learned to play better. I've had great game in ships as different as the Clemson, and the Martel. I'd be okay with seeing it more. 

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I miss Ocean as a regular map to play but the whinny player base that cried that it was to hard on them. Learn your ships and it wasn't an issue. We need places to hide so we dont get our paint scratched cry cry cry and then cry some more the map is so unfair. I say bring it back for T 5 and up as it should be.

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23 hours ago, Cpt_JM_Nascimento said:

Ocean map forces teamplay.

Which is why it is a total failure in a PUG setting.  Because almost none of what you mentioned being needed to succeed, will happen 8 out of 10 games.

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I hate it, when I'm in a cruiser, so I just auto map up the middle until i'm sunk then off to another match.  Will not play it in my CA.

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Last time I saw that map I was in a Mino....a man mode radar Mino. That did not end well.....

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This is pretty much why BB are top dogs in the real world. BB thrive on ocean. 

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8 minutes ago, alex08060 said:

This is pretty much why BB are top dogs in the real world. BB thrive on ocean. 

BBs haven't been top dog in the navy since the start of world war two Alex.  In fact they are so obsolete that no navy has one in active service any more.  Still have carriers? 

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Battleships rarely fought other battleships.  Oddly (too me), in many cases they were considered too valuable and vulnerable to be placed in harm's way.These are all of the recorded BB vs BB battles of WWI and WWII:

Date Battles Conflict Combatants A Combatants B Result
8–9 February 1904 Battle of Port Arthur Russo-Japanese War Imperial Japanese Navy Imperial Russian Navy Indecisive
10 August 1904 Battle of the Yellow Sea Russo-Japanese War Imperial Japanese Navy Imperial Russian Navy Japanese victory
27–28 May 1905 Battle of Tsushima Russo-Japanese War Imperial Japanese Navy Imperial Russian Navy Japanese victory
16 December 1912 Battle of Elli First Balkan War Royal Hellenic Navy Ottoman Navy Greek victory
18 January 1913 Battle of Lemnos First Balkan War Royal Hellenic Navy Ottoman Navy Greek victory
29 October 1914 Black Sea Raid World War I Ottoman Navy Imperial Russian Navy Ottoman Victory
18 November 1914 Battle of Cape Sarych World War I Ottoman Navy Imperial Russian Navy Indecisive
24 January 1915 Battle of Dogger Bank (1915) World War I Kaiserliche Marine Royal Navy British victory
10 May 1915 Action of 10 May 1915 World War I Ottoman Navy Imperial Russian Navy Indecisive
8–19 August 1915 Battle of the Gulf of Riga World War I Kaiserliche Marine Imperial Russian Navy Russian victory
8 January 1916 Action of 8 January 1916 World War I Ottoman Navy Imperial Russian Navy Indecisive
31 May – 1 June 1916 Battle of Jutland World War I Kaiserliche Marine Royal Navy Indecisive
16 October – 3 November 1917 Battle of Moon Sound World War I Kaiserliche Marine Imperial Russian Navy German victory
9 April 1940 Action off Lofoten World War II Royal Navy Kriegsmarine Indecisive
3 July 1940 Battle of Mers-el-Kébir World War II Royal Navy Vichy French Navy British victory
9 July 1940 Battle of Calabria World War II Royal Navy Regia Marina Indecisive
23–25 September 1940 Battle of Dakar World War II Royal Navy Vichy French Navy Vichy French victory
27 November 1940 Battle of Cape Spartivento World War II Royal Navy Regia Marina Indecisive
24 May 1941 Battle of the Denmark Strait World War II Royal Navy Kriegsmarine German victory
26–27 May 1941 Hunt for the Bismarck World War II Royal Navy Kriegsmarine British victory
8–16 November 1942 Battle of Casablanca World War II United States Navy Vichy French Navy American victory
14–15 November 1942 Second Battle of Guadalcanal World War II United States Navy Imperial Japanese Navy American victory
26 December 1943 Battle of North Cape World War II Royal Navy Kriegsmarine British victory
25 October 1944 Battle of Surigao Strait World War II United States Navy Imperial Japanese Navy American victory

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_naval_battles_between_battleships

 

"While air power was overwhelming in World War II naval battles, there were nine instances of battleship to battleship battles:

* North Sea (9 April 1940). The undergunned German battleships Gneisenau and Scharnhorst engaged the old British battlecruiser Renown in an indecisive action off southern Norway.

* Mers El Kébir (3 July 1940). The old British battleships Resolution and Valiant, with the battlecruiser Hood and some other ships, attacked the French fleet near Oran, Algeria, destroying the old battleship Bretagne, severely damaging her sister Provence, and less seriously damaging the new battleship Dunkerque, while the latter's sister Strasbourg managed to escape unscathed.

* Calabria (9 July 1940). An Italian squadron including the reconstructed old battleships Giulo Cesare and Conte di Cavour was intercepted by a British squadron including the older battleships Warspite, Royal Sovereign and Malaya, resulting in an indecisive but often intense action lasting about 50 minutes.

* Denmark Strait (24 May 1941). In a brief morning encounter in the Denmark Strait (between Iceland and Greenland), the new German battleship Bismarck took several hits while sinking the British battlecruiser Hood and damaging the very new (still had shipyard workers aboard) battleship Prince of Wales. Later that afternoon Bismarck and Prince of Wales briefly clashed again, without ill effects to either.

* North Atlantic (27 May 1941). After a wide-ranging chase across the Atlantic, Bismarck, slowed by several aerial-torpedo hits, was pounded to pieces by the new British battleship King George V and the older Rodney, reducing the German ship to a burning wreck which was finished off by several torpedoes.

* Casablanca (8 November 1942). The new USS Massachusetts exchanged several hundred rounds of heavy shells with the partially completed French Jean Bart, which was tied up to a dock. Jean Bart, which had only half her main guns mounted, was heavily damaged.

* The Second (Naval) Battle of Guadalcanal (14-15 November 1942). In a wild action which began shortly before midnight, a Japanese squadron including the battlecruiser Kirishima engaged the new Washington and South Dakota. The latter suffered considerable damage, while Washington pounded Kirishima so badly (nine 16" hits in the first few minutes) that she had to be scuttled the next day.

* North Cape (26 December 1943). Off the northernmost point of Europe, a British squadron including the new battleship Duke of York encountered the German Scharnhorst, resulting in the latter's sinking after a protracted slugfest.

* Surigao Strait (24-25 October 1944). The old U.S. battleships Mississippi, West Virginia, Maryland, Tennessee, California and Pennsylvania (all but the first veterans of Pearl Harbor), supported by numerous smaller warships, ambushed a Japanese force including the old battleships Fuso and Yamashiro, which were annihilated in an action so one-sided that Pennsylvania never got to fire. This was the last time battleships ever fired on each other."

https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/ww2-battleship-vs-battleship-battles.174587/

Edited by ExploratorOne

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