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Kanzler_Bismarck

High tier gameplay atmosphere

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So, I have mostly been staying clear of playing my tier 9s and 10s as I have been having fun in tiers 6-8.  It since I recently picked up Musashi I have been playing up there a bit more. 

 

The atmosphere in high tier games seems to be...

Smoke, smoke, smoke, torp wall, smoke, torp wall, smoke smokeydy smokesmoke, torpwall torpwall, smoke. 

 

Is that basically it? Or am I missing some deeper strategy?

 

If that's it than the devs need to do something to make the higher tiers as enjoyable as the mid tier play.

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I don't see it. I see many ships trying to kill my team. My team coordinates its resources focus fires the enemy with pinpoint accuracy. Drive a Target away with precision maneuvers and tactics. All the while taking Caps and  striving for the mission objectives. Then I wake up.  

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Get your tier 10 then go back and play the fun ships. Repeat until you have all lines to tier 10. Then go back and play the fun ships. Tiers 5 and 6 would be fun if WG wasn't discouraging playing at those tiers. They should do something to encourage more tier 10 play though.

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14 minutes ago, Kanzler_Bismarck said:

So, I have mostly been staying clear of playing my tier 9s and 10s as I have been having fun in tiers 6-8.  It since I recently picked up Musashi I have been playing up there a bit more. 

 

The atmosphere in high tier games seems to be...

Smoke, smoke, smoke, torp wall, smoke, torp wall, smoke smokeydy smokesmoke, torpwall torpwall, smoke. 

 

Is that basically it? Or am I missing some deeper strategy?

 

If that's it than the devs need to do something to make the higher tiers as enjoyable as the mid tier play.

Yup that's about it except maybe radar , radar , radar , radar smoke, smoke , smoke torpwall , torpwall , torpwall .

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You couldn't pay me to play tier 8 and up honestly.   It's like watching paint dry while dying of a headache.

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19 minutes ago, clammboy said:

Yup that's about it except maybe radar , radar , radar , radar smoke, smoke , smoke torpwall , torpwall , torpwall .

Who needs smoke when the other team is all hiding behind islands.

Been in a few that first blood didn't happen until after the 10 minute mark, it' sad. 

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By tier 10 you have good players that position and know how to play their ships. It is different from lower tiers as so many vessels are glass cannons and no player wants to give up their advantage.

Smoke may be there, but with the amount of radar at those tiers it is also dangerous.

Torp walls, again position and know what your enemy can send your way. We all get the same team line-up information loading in, so seeing a torp wall if the enemy has 2 Shimakaze's shouldn't be a shock if you have no spotters.

I will only say T10 was more fun when prior to the dubloon camo's when a T10 game could cost you money even with a win and good damage. T8 was the high point with some 9 and 10 smattered in there.

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9 minutes ago, _greifer said:

By tier 10 you have good players that position and know how to play their ships. It is different from lower tiers as so many vessels are glass cannons and no player wants to give up their advantage.

Smoke may be there, but with the amount of radar at those tiers it is also dangerous.

Torp walls, again position and know what your enemy can send your way. We all get the same team line-up information loading in, so seeing a torp wall if the enemy has 2 Shimakaze's shouldn't be a shock if you have no spotters.

I will only say T10 was more fun when prior to the dubloon camo's when a T10 game could cost you money even with a win and good damage. T8 was the high point with some 9 and 10 smattered in there.

There is this and the ships are all so deadly that any mistake can be devastating. Between the overall better players and the deadly ships the play tends to be more tentative than the low and mid tiers.

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1 hour ago, Kanzler_Bismarck said:

I see. Seems very static.

The problem is that whether they realize it or not, whether they intend it or not, the devs do things that encourage static play. All this smoke.  All this radar, perhaps. 

All these island choked maps, IMO. Some may claim that open maps encourage campy play, and perhaps that true.  But campy isn't exactly the same thing as static.  Campy can be dynamic (i.e. keeping ships in motion, fire and maneuver), even if the players aren't exactly pushing into the enemy.  Island choked maps can often just encourage island camping.  Low islands encourage ships with lofty shell arcs to hide behind them to shoot from cover.  Other islands get used to limit the number of enemies that can get lines of sight or fire on you.  Just think of Tears of the Desert, Epicenter, and you'll know exactly what I mean.  Just park your ship on the corner of an island and bow tank, knowing that your sides are quite likely completely safe from any enemy fire.

 

1 hour ago, StoneRhino said:

Who needs smoke when the other team is all hiding behind islands.

Been in a few that first blood didn't happen until after the 10 minute mark, it' sad. 

 

Low islands, while great for certain ships, also happen to encourage static play.  After all, the epitome of static play are the ships that hide behind islands and lob shells over them unseen.

As for not seeing a first blood for 10 minutes, that can be a combination of smart play by decent players and/or an over abundance of extreme caution.  Smart players, IMO, tend to be a bit cautious.  So if there are plenty of smart players in a particular battle, it shouldn't be too big a surprise if they're cautious and unwilling to take too many risky chances.

Just look at clan battles.  About the only time I recall teams playing aggressively is when they're acting as a team, making a push around the corner of an island, etc.  They're acting as a team.  OTOH, in ranked, pushing a corner often ends up being done by your lonesome and can be an extreme  risk.  And most players would rather not take extreme risks that can ruin their games and result in poor XP and credit rewards.

 

 

 

 

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Tier 10 is definitely more static than a lot of other tiers, but it's got a lot more to do with the fact that mistakes are punished than anything innate about T10.  You can get away with a lot of foolishness at lower tiers, but you're quite unlikely to be able to last for more than a few seconds if you're sitting in a the open or if you get caught showing an unarmoured part of your ship to big guns.

There are still opportunities for mobile play, but they tend to rely on taking advantage of a moment in the game when a big ship is obscured by smoke or a mountain or knowing that you can quickly destroy an opponent who is out of position without overexposing yourself to return fire from them or their team.

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1 hour ago, _greifer said:

 

I will only say T10 was more fun when prior to the dubloon camo's when a T10 game could cost you money even with a win and good damage. T8 was the high point with some 9 and 10 smattered in there.

I have a problem with this. I think that T10 is more fun now that people realize that they do NOT have to worry so much about repair costs and so forth, whether that's due to the use of perma-camo and/or the change to the service cost rathe rthan a  repair cost.  It really stunk when people were so afraid to get their paint scratched back before the service cost concept was implemented.  Too many players refused to fight their ships.  It was to the point of wondering why they bothered to play their tier 10's at all if they weren't willing to actually do anything useful.  

 

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2 hours ago, _greifer said:

By tier 10 you have good players that position and know how to play their ships. It is different from lower tiers as so many vessels are glass cannons and no player wants to give up their advantage.

Smoke may be there, but with the amount of radar at those tiers it is also dangerous.

Torp walls, again position and know what your enemy can send your way. We all get the same team line-up information loading in, so seeing a torp wall if the enemy has 2 Shimakaze's shouldn't be a shock if you have no spotters.

I will only say T10 was more fun when prior to the dubloon camo's when a T10 game could cost you money even with a win and good damage. T8 was the high point with some 9 and 10 smattered in there.

I hear some of that, but when the entire map is either blocked off by islands or smoke you basically end up with DDs, blindly hurling spreads of 10 torps down corridors hoping someone actually moves. 

 

And while the players may be good... It's kinda the antithesis of good play. 

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3 hours ago, Kanzler_Bismarck said:

If that's it than the devs need to do something to make the higher tiers as enjoyable forgiving as the mid tier play.

get good dude

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3 hours ago, _greifer said:

I will only say T10 was more fun when prior to the dubloon camo's when a T10 game could cost you money even with a win and good damage. 

fun fact: i played 23 games today, 11minotaur and 12 hindenburg. i dont have perma camo on either of those 2, i am also not on premium account, i am running premium repair hydro smoke for mino, premium repair for hind

i ended up with ~1m net credit gain after 23 games

 

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3 hours ago, _greifer said:

By tier 10 you have good players that position and know how to play their ships. It is different from lower tiers as so many vessels are glass cannons and no player wants to give up their advantage.

Smoke may be there, but with the amount of radar at those tiers it is also dangerous.

Torp walls, again position and know what your enemy can send your way. We all get the same team line-up information loading in, so seeing a torp wall if the enemy has 2 Shimakaze's shouldn't be a shock if you have no spotters.

I will only say T10 was more fun when prior to the dubloon camo's when a T10 game could cost you money even with a win and good damage. T8 was the high point with some 9 and 10 smattered in there.

My limited high tier experience doesn't confirm to this, though it is limited. As Ron White says, stupid is forever. And I've encountered it in spades at every level.

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1 hour ago, Crucis said:

an over abundance of extreme caution

Do you work for the US Govt?

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39 minutes ago, jason199506 said:

fun fact: i played 23 games today, 11minotaur and 12 hindenburg. i dont have perma camo on either of those 2, i am also not on premium account, i am running premium repair hydro smoke for mino, premium repair for hind

i ended up with ~1m net credit gain after 23 games

 

Not denying that you cant make money now, but it became easier with the flat fee for ship repairs regardless of damage. I'm sure you recall how some players would hide pristine at the games end as they didn't want to pay the economy in repairs.

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1 hour ago, Kanzler_Bismarck said:

I hear some of that, but when the entire map is either blocked off by islands or smoke you basically end up with DDs, blindly hurling spreads of 10 torps down corridors hoping someone actually moves. 

 

And while the players may be good... It's kinda the antithesis of good play. 

I'm not sure that I'd say that it's the antithesis of good play.  Maybe the antithesis of fun play though.

I will say though that I never blindly fire torps in tier 10 battles.  I'm not going to waste 2 minutes of reload time on blind torp launches.  I want some chance of getting hits.

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3 hours ago, Crucis said:

The problem is that whether they realize it or not, whether they intend it or not, the devs do things that encourage static play. All this smoke.  All this radar, perhaps. 

All these island choked maps, IMO. Some may claim that open maps encourage campy play, and perhaps that true.  But campy isn't exactly the same thing as static.  Campy can be dynamic (i.e. keeping ships in motion, fire and maneuver), even if the players aren't exactly pushing into the enemy.  Island choked maps can often just encourage island camping.  Low islands encourage ships with lofty shell arcs to hide behind them to shoot from cover.  Other islands get used to limit the number of enemies that can get lines of sight or fire on you.  Just think of Tears of the Desert, Epicenter, and you'll know exactly what I mean.  Just park your ship on the corner of an island and bow tank, knowing that your sides are quite likely completely safe from any enemy fire.

 

 

Low islands, while great for certain ships, also happen to encourage static play.  After all, the epitome of static play are the ships that hide behind islands and lob shells over them unseen.

As for not seeing a first blood for 10 minutes, that can be a combination of smart play by decent players and/or an over abundance of extreme caution.  Smart players, IMO, tend to be a bit cautious.  So if there are plenty of smart players in a particular battle, it shouldn't be too big a surprise if they're cautious and unwilling to take too many risky chances.

Just look at clan battles.  About the only time I recall teams playing aggressively is when they're acting as a team, making a push around the corner of an island, etc.  They're acting as a team.  OTOH, in ranked, pushing a corner often ends up being done by your lonesome and can be an extreme  risk.  And most players would rather not take extreme risks that can ruin their games and result in poor XP and credit rewards.

 

 

 

 

If this was just a case of positioning I would agree. However I'm talking about the disproportionate number of players that move behind islands and don't do anything or worse just remove themselves from the fight. Think about how often you see 2 groups of ships square off and both fleets "kite" away. And disappear into fog banks or behind islands for a Mexican stand off. 

You can claim "smart play" all you want but it makes for excessively boring games. 

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21 minutes ago, StoneRhino said:

If this was just a case of positioning I would agree. However I'm talking about the disproportionate number of players that move behind islands and don't do anything or worse just remove themselves from the fight. Think about how often you see 2 groups of ships square off and both fleets "kite" away. And disappear into fog banks or behind islands for a Mexican stand off. 

You can claim "smart play" all you want but it makes for excessively boring games. 

I didn't say that it didn't make for boring games.  It does. The thing is that neither side wants to give in and be the first to push into the enemy, particularly when they have good positions.  This is what you get when you play World of SeaTanks.  Corner hugging and lots of smoke.

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6 hours ago, Kanzler_Bismarck said:

So, I have mostly been staying clear of playing my tier 9s and 10s as I have been having fun in tiers 6-8.  It since I recently picked up Musashi I have been playing up there a bit more. 

 

The atmosphere in high tier games seems to be...

Smoke, smoke, smoke, torp wall, smoke, torp wall, smoke smokeydy smokesmoke, torpwall torpwall, smoke. 

 

Is that basically it? Or am I missing some deeper strategy?

 

If that's it than the devs need to do something to make the higher tiers as enjoyable as the mid tier play.

Its because the only people with the patience to play that tier are the same people who are playing that way in the lower 9 tiers.

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It helps when rng doesn't poop on both of us as we both get broadside shots on each other

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