Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
You need to play a total of 5 battles to post in this section.
dmckay

BoTs have acquired human intelligence!

30 comments in this topic

Recommended Posts

977
Members
4,564 posts
6,496 battles

Yes!  Dang things are getting smarter.  Last night was a 1 win out of 8 in drunken random so I have just played a few co-op today. I just get creamed too much on weekends for my liking and tend to go backwards.  Anyway just in a co-op game and I was running well behind a BB thinking the bots would target him first and I could try and help in tier 5 Murmansk. Wellllllllllll noooooooo!  Dang red BB targeted me first.  The easier cruiser target and I was pretty far behind my team mate.  It was just 1 BB we were engaging and he was laser accurate and blamo I was history. Ignored the BB and killed me first when our BB was much closer to him.  Then he turned his guns on that BB. Grrrrrrr.  Are they getting smarter? Co-op is not an auto win anymore. That's ok with me but seems bots are smarter these days. They soon will take over the world. It's coming.  Humans are history!:Smile_amazed:

Edited by dmckay

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Members
1,819 posts

Bots have a very specific kill order

DD's

Cruisers with torps

Cruisers without torps

and then whenever they get around to it, BB's

They will ignore closer, easier to hit targets to do their target priority. An experienced coop player would know he would be targeted first in a torp cruiser over anything other than a DD.

Edited by Kconvey_1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Members
1,819 posts

Try taking a DD into coop

Every gun on the map that can reach you will target you as soon as you are spotted, even if they have a BB literally right next to them.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2,264
[FOXEH]
Beta Testers
8,803 posts
15,265 battles
9 minutes ago, dmckay said:

Ignored the BB and killed me first when our BB was much closer to him.

Bots work on this principle: Kill the target which requires the least amount of damage and removes the most amount of guns from the enemy. You had less HP than the BB so he fired on you first. It's actually quite logical, get rid of the most guns for the least effort. It's also why they target damaged ships first.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
977
Members
4,564 posts
6,496 battles
9 minutes ago, Kconvey_1 said:

Try taking a DD into coop

Every gun on the map that can reach you will target you as soon as you are spotted, even if they have a BB literally right next to them.

 

O wow.  For some reason I did not realize they were that selective. Gee I am an idiot. I did know, I thought, they will go for closest ship first but they did not in that game I just played. 

Edited by dmckay

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
977
Members
4,564 posts
6,496 battles
2 minutes ago, Umikami said:

Bots work on this principle: Kill the target which requires the least amount of damage and removes the most amount of guns from the enemy. You had less HP than the BB so he fired on you first. It's actually quite logical, get rid of the most guns for the least effort. It's also why they target damaged ships first.

Very logical.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
711
[USCC2]
Members
3,584 posts

Co-OP is a great training ground for DDs (in general only a CV has more priority for bots and they're usually at the back). A gunship DD can learn a lot.

 

However, this isn't any different from before as far as I know - I have been chased through the middle of 3 friendly ships whilst in my DD by 4 enemy ships all taking no notice of the ships right next to them. I have noticed enemy ships adopting better zig-zag manoeuvers when first engaged. Personally I like this.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Members
1,819 posts
3 minutes ago, Umikami said:

Bots work on this principle: Kill the target which requires the least amount of damage and removes the most amount of guns from the enemy. You had less HP than the BB so he fired on you first. It's actually quite logical, get rid of the most guns for the least effort. It's also why they target damaged ships first.

Yes but they also target ships with torps on a much higher priority scale.

So DD's with low health are a hyper priority target.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1,728
[TBW]
Members
6,409 posts
12,057 battles

They concentrate on the weakest first principle in scenarios too.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
977
Members
4,564 posts
6,496 battles
1 minute ago, _WaveRider_ said:

Co-OP is a great training ground for DDs (in general only a CV has more priority for bots and they're usually at the back). A gunship DD can learn a lot.

 

However, this isn't any different from before as far as I know - I have been chased through the middle of 3 friendly ships whilst in my DD by 4 enemy ships all taking no notice of the ships right next to them. I have noticed enemy ships adopting better zig-zag manoeuvers when first engaged. Personally I like this.

Bots are indeed better than when I started.  YES they do zig-zag real good now.  I like it also.  More of a challenge.  Also I am playing higher tier bots now.  Low tier bots seem dumber.  Dunno...seems so.  Hardly ever lose a low tier bot match but in my tier 7 Scharnhorst it's NOT an easy win all the time. Nope.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
977
Members
4,564 posts
6,496 battles
2 minutes ago, Sovereigndawg said:

They concentrate on the weakest first principle in scenarios too.

Well if they want a weak link they are picking the right guy....me! :Smile_teethhappy:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
951
[BBICT]
Members
3,372 posts
3,561 battles

I'm pretty sure they cheat as far as torp dodging...I've taken to turning off the aim assist while dealing with bots... 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
311
[TF_34]
[TF_34]
Beta Testers
1,058 posts
3,928 battles
1 hour ago, Sir_Davos_Seaworth said:

I'm pretty sure they cheat as far as torp dodging...I've taken to turning off the aim assist while dealing with bots... 

Yeah..I think thats the only way to seriously land any torps on the bots. if they are targetd by you when you launch they dodge like cracked out ninjas.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
595
[PVE]
Members
1,607 posts
6,759 battles
16 minutes ago, BBsquid said:

Yeah..I think thats the only way to seriously land any torps on the bots. if they are targetd by you when you launch they dodge like cracked out ninjas.

I hear that! Sure wish my ships could stop on a dime and make right angle turns to miss torps like the Bots do. Whats even more entertaining is to watch the BOT BB's make those same turns, dang! :Smile_amazed::Smile_teethhappy:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4,804
[SALVO]
Members
17,085 posts
17,754 battles

One of the biggest problems I have with coop is that far too many players are complete idiots.  Doing well in coop is freaking easy.  Here's a couple of guidelines to help.

#1: Never get in torpedo range of any bot ship that has torpedoes, particularly cruisers.  It can be understandable that DD's might be able to get close, but there's no excuse for yolo charging enemy torp-equipped cruisers.  Stay outside of their torp range and kill them with guns.  Period.

#2: If you're in a BB and have the speed to do so, stay out of torpedo range of any battleship with torpedoes!!!  I get that brawling BBvBB can be fun for some people, but it's rank stupidity to get inside torp range of a bot Scharnhorst, Gneisenau, or Tirpitz.  All you're doing is giving them a free chance to nuke you.  This is particularly true when you're a lot more healthy than the bot BB.  Why give them a chance to trash your BB with torps when you're a lot healthier than they are????

OTOH, if you are the ship in one of those torp armed German BB's and you see a bot BB that doesn't have torpedoes, by all means charge right in there and torp his aft!

 

It's just annoying watching so many people in coop who are dumb as rotten stumps.  OTOH, sometimes it's amusing because all they're doing is ensuring that I get to do more damage and get more kills from the enemy bots, and hopefully win, as long as I didn't get saddled with too many morons.

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2,378
[PVE]
[PVE]
Members
5,881 posts
10,655 battles
1 hour ago, dmckay said:

Bots are indeed better than when I started.  YES they do zig-zag real good now.  I like it also.  More of a challenge.  Also I am playing higher tier bots now.  Low tier bots seem dumber.  Dunno...seems so.  Hardly ever lose a low tier bot match but in my tier 7 Scharnhorst it's NOT an easy win all the time. Nope.

The higher you go the better they are. Wait until you see T9 and T10 bots that just don't miss and every salvo does max damage. It seems to be scaled difficulty wise by tier. Low tier they are not very good but as you climb they get better and better. By the time you see T8-T10 they are pretty good. They also angle extremely well and as others said they dodge torps like a Ninja.

What you experienced with the BB targeting you vs the closest threat happens a lot. I have been 14-15km+ away in a Cruiser (not hiding!!! LOL) while our BB's are brawling the reds and all of a sudden the reds target me. That happens in PVP too though. You can angle to a close in BB and shoot at a distant Cruiser that is hurt to take it out.

Bots still sail in a straight line a bit too long (they do change course though) and they will get grounded on an island and not be able to get off but overall they are a lot better than people give them credit for at least at high tier.  They also are goal programmed and will cap everything and go for the base unlike humans who just refuse to cap/defend for some reason. I wind up alone defending the base against a red hoarde almost every standard game because everyone runs for the border despite me asking they stay. Easily 60-70% of my Co-op losses are because people ignore caps or the base and the bots win on objectives. Can't count the times I have said "defend base" or "cap" in chat and been told bots don't do that just kill them only to end up in a loss as I couldn't do it all alone.

Humans are harder to hit no question. They are more unpredictable too. That is where their superiority ends IMO. I like the fact the bots are aggressive and are good shots and such though. Makes the games fun and they can get intense. Literally just came here from playing a T8-T10 match in Alabama. Was me, 2 Yamatos, and then 5 bots (1 CV 4 Cruisers). Came down to me, one of our Yamato's, and our CV vs the same for the reds. Our Yamato took out the enemy Bama near him with help from the CV and I was alone vs the Yamato (yeah - LOL). It angled in bow on to me and I couldn't do much but it was paddlin me with the overmatch. So I rammed it (damn thing lived but eventually died from flooding). Our Yamato finally got the enemy CV but not after it hit him over and over with planes. Was a FUN and INTENSE game.

Edited by AdmiralThunder
  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4,804
[SALVO]
Members
17,085 posts
17,754 battles
34 minutes ago, BBsquid said:

Yeah..I think thats the only way to seriously land any torps on the bots. if they are targetd by you when you launch they dodge like cracked out ninjas.

Actually, there's a trick that will increase the number of torp hits you can get.  Apparently, bot ships know that you've launched torps at then because you launch them while using the torp aiming guide.  So, before you launch, hit the "X" key to turn off target lock on the ship and use the last aim guide to aim your torps manually.  It can be very useful and effective.  Not 100%, but better than otherwise.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2,378
[PVE]
[PVE]
Members
5,881 posts
10,655 battles
33 minutes ago, BBsquid said:

Yeah..I think thats the only way to seriously land any torps on the bots. if they are targetd by you when you launch they dodge like cracked out ninjas.

I find they dodge really well too but if you can get inside 4km to torp you generally land most. That puts you at risk obviously but it is more effective. 8-10km torps vs bots is mostly luck for a hit.

I can live with that. What gets me with torps and bots is how they launch them after they are dead and/or from impossible angles.You can shoot a bot and kill it while it is bow on to you. You immediately slow down or speed up and angle out or in for a while. No way in heck they should hit. However, sure enough like 10-20 seconds later, depending on how far, here comes the bot torps PERFECTLY on line with you. Drives me nuts. LOL. I have even seen torps drop from a sinking DD as I was going past it LONG after it died.

They do it with the guns too. You can see a bot shoot at like 15km+ and immediately alter course and speed so it should miss but that salvo will fall perfectly on you. I swear sometimes you can see the shot string as it heads for you moves to follow you LOL.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4,804
[SALVO]
Members
17,085 posts
17,754 battles
5 minutes ago, AdmiralThunder said:

The higher you go the better they are. Wait until you see T9 and T10 bots that just don't miss and every salvo does max damage. It seems to be scaled difficulty wise by tier. Low tier they are not very good but as you climb they get better and better. By the time you see T8-T10 they are pretty good. They also angle extremely well and as others said they dodge torps like a Ninja.

What you experienced with the BB targeting you vs the closest threat happens a lot. I have been 14-15km+ away in a Cruiser while our BB's are brawling the reds and all of a sudden the reds target me. That happens in PVP too though. You can angle to a close in BB and shoot at a distant Cruiser that is hurt to take it out.

Bots still sail in a straight line a bit too long (they do change course though) and they will get grounded on an island and not be able to get off but overall they are a lot better than people give them credit for at least at high tier.  They also are goal programmed and will cap everything and go for the base unlike humans who just refuse to cap/defend for some reason. I wind up alone defending the base against a red hoarde almost every standard game because everyone runs for the border despite me asking they stay. Easily 60-70% of my Co-op losses are because people ignore caps or the base and the bots win on objectives. Can't count the times I have said "defend base" or "cap" in chat and been told bots don;t do that just kill them only to end up in a loss as I couldn't do it all alone.

Humans are harder to hit no question. They are more unpredictable too. That is where their superiority ends IMO. I like the fact the bots are aggressive and are good shots and such though. Makes the games fun and they can get intense. Literally just came here from playing a T8-T10 match in Alabama. Was me, 2 Yamatos, and then 5 bots (1 CV 4 Cruisers). Came down to me, one of our Yamato's, and our CV vs the same for the reds. Our Yamato took out the enemy Bama near him with help from the CV and I was alone vs the Yamato (yeah - LOL). It angled in bow on to me and I couldn't do much but it was paddlin me with the overmatch. So I rammed it (damn thing lived but eventually died from flooding). Our Yamato finally got the enemy CV but not after it hit him over and over with planes. Was a FUN and INTENSE game.

Thunder, another problem with too many live players in coop is that they act like coop is just 7v7 randoms, and do stuff that might make  sense in randoms, but is just dumb in coop.  Things like heading for the A or D caps on the North map.  Or just strategic flanking in general.  Tactical flanking, i.e. maneuvering to get side shots on enemy ships, is fine.  Strategic flanking is stupid because the bots don't care.  They'll just drive up the middle and strategic flankers will be out of position.

My usual strategy in coop is to simply engage the enemy bots where I expect them to be, which is usually coming up the middle.  No need for fancy strategies.  Just kill'em where you find them.  

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4,804
[SALVO]
Members
17,085 posts
17,754 battles
2 minutes ago, AdmiralThunder said:

I find they dodge really well too but if you can get inside 4km to torp you generally land most. That puts you at risk obviously but it is more effective. 8-10km torps vs bots is mostly luck for a hit.

I can live with that. What gets me with torps and bots is how they launch them after they are dead and/or from impossible angles.You can shoot a bot and kill it while it is bow on to you. You immediately slow down or speed up and angle out or in for a while. No way in heck they should hit. However, sure enough like 10-20 seconds later, depending on how far, here comes the bot torps PERFECTLY on line with you. Drives me nuts. LOL. I have even seen torps drop from a sinking DD as I was going past it LONG after it died.

They do it with the guns too. You can see a bot shoot at like 15km+ and immediately alter course and speed so it should miss but that salvo will fall perfectly on you. I swear sometimes you can see the shot string as it heads for you moves to follow you LOL.

Thunder, IMO, unless you're in a torping DD, it's best to stay outside of torpedo range of the enemy if you can, not close on them.  Any decent player who can aim his guns reasonably well should always be able to beat a bot in a gun fight.  Getting into torpedo range only gives the bots a chance to do what he couldn't do with guns.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Members
1,819 posts
11 minutes ago, Crucis said:

Thunder, IMO, unless you're in a torping DD, it's best to stay outside of torpedo range of the enemy if you can, not close on them.  Any decent player who can aim his guns reasonably well should always be able to beat a bot in a gun fight.  Getting into torpedo range only gives the bots a chance to do what he couldn't do with guns.

 

Bots tend to speed boost directly at you if you are in a torp armed ship.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2,264
[FOXEH]
Beta Testers
8,803 posts
15,265 battles
2 hours ago, Kconvey_1 said:

Yes but they also target ships with torps on a much higher priority scale.

I don't think they use torps per se as a guideline; I believe it is based on overall damage potential VS HP required to delete. All DD's have torps, so that won't matter in their calculation as they all also have few HP, but cruisers do, and so the bots (or the program which controls each one) measures HP against potential damage per minute. As torps have a huge damage potential they would naturally boost that cruiser higher on the bot hit list.

17 minutes ago, Crucis said:

Strategic flanking is stupid because the bots don't care.  They'll just drive up the middle and strategic flankers will be out of position.

Boy, I know this is right; seen it happen way too many times.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
555
[CVA16]
Members
2,751 posts
6,411 battles

DmCkay, hate to tell you this. I am a robot also. I was pre programmed to respond from certain words from you. Watch out, you may be the only silicone based unit in the game ok. Watch Dr_Venture, obvious bot.

th?id=OIP.tnhyR-pnQT12DkS8P4QHwAHaFQ&pid

  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1,273
[RKLES]
Members
7,214 posts
9,006 battles

Just waiting for Wargaming to take advantage of some Ai from other games that actually does think creatively...

:Smile_popcorn:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Sign in to follow this  

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×