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tank2tank

When will see the German Heavy Cruiser Blücher

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Her sisters; Prinz Eugen and Admiral Hipper are already ingame

See also how KMS Blücher sank;

 

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The T61 should be coming first as we've heard not even a rumor about a Blucher. Of course my track record for predicting actual WG moves isn't even close to 50%...

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Why is it that so damned many people keep asking for sister ships of a class' lead ship to be in the game?

Here's some information for these people...

It's already in the game in the form of the lead ship!!!!!

 

 

Jeez.  :Smile_facepalm:

 

 

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5 hours ago, tank2tank said:

I'm just wondering when or if we will see the German Heavy Cruiser Blücher in the game ?

Why? The first one, sunk at Dogger Bank, was a joke which was built with inferior guns because of a massive screw-up by German Intelligence; the second one was a Hipper class cruiser which got it's lunch taken away and sunk in Oslofjord during the Nazi conquest of Norway.

BOTH these ships are the textbook definition of LOSER.

(and honestly, if I had to pick one of the two, I'd opt for the WW1 version, which al least died fighting in a major battle instead of being ambushed in a port because of an world class incompetent move on the part of her captain.)

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10 minutes ago, Umikami said:

(and honestly, if I had to pick one of the two, I'd opt for the WW1 version, which al least died fighting in a major battle instead of being ambushed in a port because of an world class incompetent move on the part of her captain.)

And if we are going back to WW I a far better choice would be the battlecruiser Von der Tann:

5a6c8d23f012d_FFVonderTann.jpg.75a64ebfb73e060371ba31ce644a52b8.jpg

Notes

Spoiler

Is she a beautiful ship or what? Von der Tann was a well-armoured and fast battlecruiser that I would love to see included. She could appear anywhere from tier III to IV, depending on how heavily the WG nerf axe were to fall on her. She has built-in OPness and would be a challenge for them to balance.

"SMS von der Tann was the first German battlecruiser, and is widely accepted to have been a much more successful design than her British equivalents. She carried 50% more armour than the Indefatigable class battlecruisers (5,693 tons compared to 3,735 tons) without sacrificing speed [top speed 27.75 kts].

Contrary to popular believe, the von der Tann did not sacrifice firepower to gain her extra armour protection. Eight German 12in guns would have only added 80 tons to the weight of her guns. Partly because of her battery of 5.9in guns, the armaments of the von der Tann actually weighed more than those of the British Indefatigable class. The 1,958 tons for the extra armour on von der Tann came from a combination of a lighter hull (1,000 tons), lighter machinery (600t) and an overall increase of 350 tons in weight. Her design would suggest that the British did not need to sacrifice quite so much armour to achieve the desired combination of firepower and speed.

The real motivation for the choice of 11.1in guns for von der Tann would appear to have been cost. The Naval budget was already stretched close to the limit by the need to build a fleet of dreadnoughts and so plans to use 12in or 13.8in guns were abandoned. The 11.1in guns proved to be perfectly capable of taking on the more lightly armed British battlecruisers, but they gave the von der Tann a broadside weight of 5,238lbs, compared to the 6,800lbs of the Invincible and Indefatigable class battlecruisers or the 7,144lbs offered by the main German 12in guns.

The saving in machinery weight came from the use of 18 Schultz-Thornycroft double boilers, which provided almost the same level of power as the 32 Babcock and Wilcox used on the Indefatigable ships.

During the First World War the von der Tann took part in the Gorleston Raid of 3 November 1914 and the raid on the Yorkshire coast of 16 December. At Jutland the von der Tann became involved in a duel with the British battlecruiser Indefatigable. The duel began at 3:49pm, and at 4:03, after taking five 11.1in hits, the Indefatigable exploded. It is generally accepted that flash from one of the German hits reached her magazine. The von der Tann was hit four times herself.

After Jutland the von der Tann was involved in most of the remaining sorties of the High Seas Fleet. She was one of the German ships interned at Scapa Flow after the war, and was scuttled by her crew on 21 June 1919."

from http://www.historyofwar.org/articles/weapons_SMS_Von_der_Tann.html

 

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2 minutes ago, Stauffenberg44 said:

And if we are going back to WW I a far better choice would be the battlecruiser Von der Tann:

Who wouldn't? But OP's subject was Bluchers, so ...

Von der Tam would be a GREAT tier 2 premium, competing against the likes of Mikasa and the pre-dreadnaught designs of other nations. She was a One-Off, right; no other ships of her class but instead the next class being the Moltke's? (Which also sailed at Jutland.)

This would be a good ship for the pre-dreadnaughts many forum posters have asked for.

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14 minutes ago, Umikami said:

Who wouldn't? But OP's subject was Bluchers, so ...

Von der Tam would be a GREAT tier 2 premium, competing against the likes of Mikasa and the pre-dreadnaught designs of other nations. She was a One-Off, right; no other ships of her class but instead the next class being the Moltke's? (Which also sailed at Jutland.)

This would be a good ship for the pre-dreadnaughts many forum posters have asked for.

No, the Von Der Tann would be a tier 3 battlecruiser.

Edited by Crucis

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31 minutes ago, Umikami said:

Why? The first one, sunk at Dogger Bank, was a joke which was built with inferior guns because of a massive screw-up by German Intelligence; the second one was a Hipper class cruiser which got it's lunch taken away and sunk in Oslofjord during the Nazi conquest of Norway.

BOTH these ships are the textbook definition of LOSER.

(and honestly, if I had to pick one of the two, I'd opt for the WW1 version, which al least died fighting in a major battle instead of being ambushed in a port because of an world class incompetent move on the part of her captain.)

The SMS Blucher that was sunk at Dogger Bank wasn't even a "heavy cruiser".  It was an "armored cruiser", essentially a concept from before the invention of the dreadnought concept.  I'm suspect that she could be a tier 3 cruiser, given that her max speed was a respectable 25.4 kts with 12 8.3" main guns in 6x2 turrets, along with 8 single 5.9" guns as well as lesser secondaries.  Jeez, when looking at those numbers, that's a pretty darned respectably armed ship.  I don't know how well armored she was, but the SMS Blucher does seem to have been very powerfully armed.

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22 minutes ago, Stauffenberg44 said:

And if we are going back to WW I a far better choice would be the battlecruiser Von der Tann:

5a6c8d23f012d_FFVonderTann.jpg.75a64ebfb73e060371ba31ce644a52b8.jpg

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  Reveal hidden contents

Is she a beautiful ship or what? Von der Tann was a well-armoured and fast battlecruiser that I would love to see included. She could appear anywhere from tier III to IV, depending on how heavily the WG nerf axe were to fall on her. She has built-in OPness and would be a challenge for them to balance.

"SMS von der Tann was the first German battlecruiser, and is widely accepted to have been a much more successful design than her British equivalents. She carried 50% more armour than the Indefatigable class battlecruisers (5,693 tons compared to 3,735 tons) without sacrificing speed [top speed 27.75 kts].

Contrary to popular believe, the von der Tann did not sacrifice firepower to gain her extra armour protection. Eight German 12in guns would have only added 80 tons to the weight of her guns. Partly because of her battery of 5.9in guns, the armaments of the von der Tann actually weighed more than those of the British Indefatigable class. The 1,958 tons for the extra armour on von der Tann came from a combination of a lighter hull (1,000 tons), lighter machinery (600t) and an overall increase of 350 tons in weight. Her design would suggest that the British did not need to sacrifice quite so much armour to achieve the desired combination of firepower and speed.

The real motivation for the choice of 11.1in guns for von der Tann would appear to have been cost. The Naval budget was already stretched close to the limit by the need to build a fleet of dreadnoughts and so plans to use 12in or 13.8in guns were abandoned. The 11.1in guns proved to be perfectly capable of taking on the more lightly armed British battlecruisers, but they gave the von der Tann a broadside weight of 5,238lbs, compared to the 6,800lbs of the Invincible and Indefatigable class battlecruisers or the 7,144lbs offered by the main German 12in guns.

The saving in machinery weight came from the use of 18 Schultz-Thornycroft double boilers, which provided almost the same level of power as the 32 Babcock and Wilcox used on the Indefatigable ships.

During the First World War the von der Tann took part in the Gorleston Raid of 3 November 1914 and the raid on the Yorkshire coast of 16 December. At Jutland the von der Tann became involved in a duel with the British battlecruiser Indefatigable. The duel began at 3:49pm, and at 4:03, after taking five 11.1in hits, the Indefatigable exploded. It is generally accepted that flash from one of the German hits reached her magazine. The von der Tann was hit four times herself.

After Jutland the von der Tann was involved in most of the remaining sorties of the High Seas Fleet. She was one of the German ships interned at Scapa Flow after the war, and was scuttled by her crew on 21 June 1919."

from http://www.historyofwar.org/articles/weapons_SMS_Von_der_Tann.html

 

I'd love to see the Von Der Tann in the game, but I also think that the SMS Blucher looks pretty appealing as well.

On the flip side, we are talking about low tier ships, which really aren't all that appealing from a game play standpoint.

Ya know, in some ways, it's almost a shame that there aren't two versions of WoWS, one for WW1 and another for WW2, because low tier stuff always gets treated poorly and is underplayed, etc.  And WW1 can actually be a very interesting period of naval warfare that's getting short shrift in WoWS as it's currently constituted.

 

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Blucher doesn't have anything going for her over here sisters if we are talking about the Hipper class. If it is the armored cruiser Blucher, then we have an idea.

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6 minutes ago, Doomlock said:

Blucher doesn't have anything going for her over here sisters if we are talking about the Hipper class. If it is the armored cruiser Blucher, then we have an idea.

I would rather have SMS Seydlitz appear first.

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10 minutes ago, Crucis said:

Jeez, when looking at those numbers, that's a pretty darned respectably armed ship.

Not really. Blucher is a German Naval horror story. When the RN was building their first real battlecruisers, the Invincible class, German intelligence determined, incorrectly, that they were actually nothing more than larger cruisers using 23 cm guns (9.2 inch) according to the then standard cruiser design, when in fact they were an entirely new ship, carrying 12 inch guns, and eventually being designated Battlecruisers. So Bluchers main armament was based on these erroneous facts, and as a result was woefully undergunned, becoming a joke amongst navies everywhere and eventually getting the ship waffle-stomped at the battle of the Dogger Bank.

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17 minutes ago, Crucis said:

Ya know, in some ways, it's almost a shame that there aren't two versions of WoWS, one for WW1 and another for WW2, because low tier stuff always gets treated poorly and is underplayed, etc.  And WW1 can actually be a very interesting period of naval warfare that's getting short shrift in WoWS as it's currently constituted.

Ya, gotta agree with this, and it would be even more interesting with team play, like clan wars. Real Jutland style engagements.

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16 minutes ago, Umikami said:

Not really. Blucher is a German Naval horror story. When the RN was building their first real battlecruisers, the Invincible class, German intelligence determined, incorrectly, that they were actually nothing more than larger cruisers using 23 cm guns (9.2 inch) according to the then standard cruiser design, when in fact they were an entirely new ship, carrying 12 inch guns, and eventually being designated Battlecruisers. So Bluchers main armament was based on these erroneous facts, and as a result was woefully undergunned, becoming a joke amongst navies everywhere and eventually getting the ship waffle-stomped at the battle of the Dogger Bank.

You're speaking from a more historical perspective, which I agree is accurate.  However, I was thinking of it from more of a game play perspective where, assuming that the SMS Blucher was considered a cruiser, she'd be a rather nasty cruiser, presumably at either tier 3 or maybe even tier 4.  She looks much too powerfully armed for tier 2.

 

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6 minutes ago, Crucis said:

She looks much too powerfully armed for tier 2.

Actually, I said Von der Tam would be a great tier 2, to offset Mikasa. Tier 2 powercreep, LOL. Bring on the Pre-Dreds!

Blucher has Battlecruiser armor and Cruiser guns, and would fit at tier 3 nicely; look out St Louis.

Although Von der Tam has the better, or at least greater number, of main battery guns, her armor is very equal to Mikasa's, including both sporting a 9 inch belt. Mikasa even has a better armored conning tower. It would be an interesting battle, especially if WoW "fixed" Mikasa's horrid dispersion.

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2 minutes ago, Umikami said:

Actually, I said Von der Tam would be a great tier 2, to offset Mikasa. Tier 2 powercreep, LOL. Bring on the Pre-Dreds!

Blucher has Battlecruiser armor and Cruiser guns, and would fit at tier 3 nicely; look out St Louis.

The Von Der Tann (Tann, not Tam) is a battlecruiser and belongs at tier 3.  Period.  There are plenty of pre-dreadnoughts to stick at tier 2.  The VDT is not one of them.  She was Germany's first battlecruiser and belongs at tier 3 with the other first DN's and BC's.

 

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32 minutes ago, Fog_Repair_Ship_Akashi said:

I would rather have SMS Seydlitz appear first.

This^^^^    +1

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When I saw this the first thing I thought of was which one?  The one commissioned in 1909 or 1939.  Personally I'd rather have the 1909 one.

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2 minutes ago, Wowzery said:

When I saw this the first thing I thought of was which one?  The one commissioned in 1909 or 1939.  Personally I'd rather have the 1909 one.

One is a heavy cruiser, the other an armored cruiser.  That makes it really simple.

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Some cool ideas here guys. Though, I think calling any class of ships 'invincible' is tempting fate. Lets not forget that the Titanic was called 'unsinkable' before her voyage

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I'd say Blucher is pretty unlikely.  The WW2 version, at any rate.  She doesn't exactly have an illustrious history.

Cases can be made for Lutzow (with her original 12x155mm armament) and Seydlitz (in her proposed light CV conversion), but I doubt you'll ever see Blucher.

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I can't imagine why anyone would want to play this ship that got a massive butt-kicking by a Norwegian fortress.

 

Edited by Sventex

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