High average damage emblems promote bad gameplay

[Ramsalot]

I often find ships ignoring high priority targets just to farm more damage.  It especially hurts on close games.  Cruisers would ignore destroyers at close range just to spread fires to high health BBs at maximum range.  BBs would not want to waste salvo on nearly dead ship to hit full health ship for more damage.  DDs would go out of their way for a suicide torp run.  Couple players openly admitted they needed a “good game” to increase their average damage for elite emblem, win or loss.

The top 3 xp emblems promote good gameplay.  We need more of those.  

[TTK_Aegis]

I strongly doubt this is due to emblems, as this has been going on for years. Some people will always put high personal numbers over team success. 

[Lert]

This is nothing new. People like big numbers and think that big numbers mean they did well. While there's an element of truth to that, it's the good players that recognize when to go for the smaller targets.

[Nukelavee45]

On the other hand... a guy in a match last night got salty when he was sunk by one of my team.   His final shot..."That's the stupidest emblem ever, dude!"

[Ensign_Cthulhu]

Nothing is more frustrating or rage-inducing for me than fighting hard in the caps, failing to sink a single ship because of last-second kill-steals... and finding out afterwards that the BB driver on your team who got a Kraken is responsible for ALL of them.  Part of me would like to see Kraken require at least a 10% 'take' from the sunken ship's health pool.

25 minutes ago, Lert said:

it's the good players that recognize when to go for the smaller targets.

10K obliterating a destroyer is worth more XP than 10K wounding a battleship, IIRC, even leaving aside the tactical benefits... but I guess it depends on what you're grinding. As a neophyte battleship driver, I will cheerfully admit to prioritising what I know I can hit, and that's not always destroyers (or fast light cruisers). I know I've only got forty salvoes at most to spread out over the entire game and I want them to count, and a wounded enemy BB that's just put my fires out and which my cruisers and destroyers can finish off more easily or with fewer torpedoes is potentially more valuable to them than a fresh BB with its DCP unused.

[RedSeaBear]

Yes because emblems are the first thing to cause ships to play in odd ways. 

"Be the first to Spot enemy DDs in a BB"....BB captain, "YOLO". 

Or

"Sink a Carrier with a DD"...DD captain, "Hope you all can cap I'm going to be useless for the next 15 minutes."

[Umikami]

55 minutes ago, Ramsalot said:

I often find ships ignoring high priority targets just to farm more damage.  It especially hurts on close games.  Cruisers would ignore destroyers at close range just to spread fires to high health BBs at maximum range.  BBs would not want to waste salvo on nearly dead ship to hit full health ship for more damage.  DDs would go out of their way for a suicide torp run.  Couple players openly admitted they needed a “good game” to increase their average damage for elite emblem, win or loss.

The top 3 xp emblems promote good gameplay.  We need more of those.  

Different players have different motivations, which WoW encourages with various missions, contests, and events. In a Random Battle, not everyone is there for the win, but everyone does have a reason to be there. The game and the player base are both very self-centered.

[Ariokk]

5 minutes ago, Ensign_Cthulhu said:

Nothing is more frustrating or rage-inducing for me than fighting hard in the caps, failing to sink a single ship because of last-second kill-steals... and finding out afterwards that the BB driver on your team who got a Kraken is responsible for ALL of them.  Part of me would like to see Kraken require at least a 10% 'take' from the sunken ship's health pool.

10K obliterating a destroyer is worth more XP than 10K wounding a battleship, IIRC, even leaving aside the tactical benefits... but I guess it depends on what you're grinding. As a neophyte battleship driver, I will cheerfully admit to prioritising what I know I can hit, and that's not always destroyers (or fast light cruisers). I know I've only got forty salvoes at most to spread out over the entire game and I want them to count, and a wounded enemy BB that's just put my fires out and which my cruisers and destroyers can finish off more easily or with fewer torpedoes is potentially more valuable to them than a fresh BB with its DCP unused.

A wounded enemy BB left alive by you and subsequently by your teammates might just end up being the ship that sinks you and/or wins the game for his team. Leaving them alive so you can pursue higher health targets might make your salvos "count" for more damage, but end up making them "count" less towards getting a win. 

[slokill_1]

I agree.  I've found myself in my T9 and 10 BB's shooting at larger targets when a DD is 10-12 km away, whereas I used to target DD anytime they were within 12 km and sometimes further away.   I don't do well at those tiers to begin with, but going after the emblem has changed the ships I prioritize and the damage I want from every salvo.

Those ship exclusive missions altered the way I played them in some campaigns, but these emblems are going to take me a long time to achieve, at least for me.

[jason199506]

lets be honest.....average damage requirements are low enough 

good players wont need to do anything special to get that average damage

as for the bad players..........you think they've been doing what they should be doing before the emblems are around? what difference does the emblems even make?

it's the "top 3 XP on a winning team" emblem that requires some serious grinding

[Ensign_Cthulhu]

@Ariokk True, but what I'm actually saying is that if I have to choose between engaging a nimble destroyer and MAYBE hitting him, vs. an enemy BB that's about to go out of range or field of fire (or I'm about to sink) and KNOWING I can hit him, I would rather hit the battleship and hopefully cut him down to size for whoever else has to take him on (particularly if he's heading in a direction that leads him straight into the welcoming arms of several of my friendlies).

For sure, if he comes back into range/field of view I'll pick him up again and keep firing, but if for whatever reason I have to leave him aside and deal with something more urgent, I'm going with the sure thing first. I'm sort of conflicted when it comes to kill-stealing - I've had it happen enough times to me that it infuriates me, but in the latter part of a game if things are critical, or if my ship is imminently in danger (enemy DD or torp-armed cruiser coming in fast, etc), I'm not so bothered by doing it.

[Ramsalot]

2 minutes ago, jason199506 said:

it's the "top 3 XP on a winning team" emblem that requires some serious grinding

Speaking of top 3 xp, I found it interesting that elite damage emblems requires damage in T10 exclusively, while elite top 3 xp still counts T8-T10.  It would be nice to have emblem for number of wins as top 1 xp in T10.

[Doomlock]

I haven't noticed anything out of the ordinary. Just players being players.

[yashma]

7 minutes ago, jason199506 said:

it's the "top 3 XP on a winning team" emblem that requires some serious grinding

And honestly the best way to get that emblem is by shooting DDs.  The other night I was having an absolutely below average miserable game in the Henri, then in the final minute I was lucky enough to surprise a Shima at close range and do 18k to him.  That Shima kill indourtabdly was what propelled me into 2nd place on the team and one tick closer to getting the French emblem.

[WolfmanJack99]

33 minutes ago, RedSeaBear said:

"Be the first to Spot enemy DDs in a BB"....BB captain, "YOLO". 

Yeah! I remember a mission like this for the Duke of York. "Be the first to spot a German BB in a British cruiser." Uh...nope...

Spoiler

 

[Wodyo]

Stupid play was around before emblems. It will be around long after, as well.

Good luck

[Admiral_Thrawn_1]

Personally I like these achievements, and my teams do not usually complain when I earn them either, although enemy not always all that happy though, but I can live with that lol.

 

[Ariokk]

On ‎1‎/‎26‎/‎2018 at 11:28 AM, Ensign_Cthulhu said:

@Ariokk True, but what I'm actually saying is that if I have to choose between engaging a nimble destroyer and MAYBE hitting him, vs. an enemy BB that's about to go out of range or field of fire (or I'm about to sink) and KNOWING I can hit him, I would rather hit the battleship and hopefully cut him down to size for whoever else has to take him on (particularly if he's heading in a direction that leads him straight into the welcoming arms of several of my friendlies).

For sure, if he comes back into range/field of view I'll pick him up again and keep firing, but if for whatever reason I have to leave him aside and deal with something more urgent, I'm going with the sure thing first. I'm sort of conflicted when it comes to kill-stealing - I've had it happen enough times to me that it infuriates me, but in the latter part of a game if things are critical, or if my ship is imminently in danger (enemy DD or torp-armed cruiser coming in fast, etc), I'm not so bothered by doing it.

@ensign_cthulhu I totally understand where you are coming from. I just have seen too many players refusing to even engage a dd citing various reasons for doing so and then subsequently dying to said dd or having that dd cost the team another player. The situation could obviously been avoided and if overpens do 10% damage... well 9 shells doing 1000 damage apiece minimum puts a serious hurt if not finishes off a wounded DD. The actual kill in this game is not rewarded in the same manner as it is in other games unless the actual kill is part of a specific mission requirement. So secure the kill... your team will thank you for it. :-)

[GUNSTAR_THE_LEGEND]

I have only really seen it once so far.  A Conq  player farmed me in my Kurfurst for i know at least 125k worth of damage.

Only issue was i was the only target he shot at the entire match and in the end I was still alive and he was sunk and his team lost.

[GuntherPrein]

On ‎1‎/‎26‎/‎2018 at 7:15 AM, Ramsalot said:

I often find ships ignoring high priority targets just to farm more damage.  It especially hurts on close games.  Cruisers would ignore destroyers at close range just to spread fires to high health BBs at maximum range.  BBs would not want to waste salvo on nearly dead ship to hit full health ship for more damage.  DDs would go out of their way for a suicide torp run.  Couple players openly admitted they needed a “good game” to increase their average damage for elite emblem, win or loss.

The top 3 xp emblems promote good gameplay.  We need more of those.  

meh its allways been this way doing what you should = less damage than doing what you want

[Ensign_Cthulhu]

1 hour ago, Ariokk said:

@ensign_cthulhu I totally understand where you are coming from. I just have seen too many players refusing to even engage a dd citing various reasons for doing so and then subsequently dying to said dd or having that dd cost the team another player. The situation could obviously been avoided and if overpens do 10% damage... well 9 shells doing 1000 damage apiece minimum puts a serious hurt if not finishes off a wounded DD. The actual kill in this game is not rewarded in the same manner as it is in other games unless the actual kill is part of a specific mission requirement. So secure the kill... your team will thank you for it. :-)

Given the choice between a BB 10km away heading away from my Orion behind a rock and a DD 10km away heading away from me behind a rock, I will go for the BB every time; right now I'm likely to waste every shell on the DD shot.

(In a cruiser, the decision is clearer; I reload so fast it doesn't matter, and if the DD is human, I've given him something to think about. Sometimes he elects to turn and run even if I miss with every shell, because being shot at by a determined Fiji is no joke, regardless of what tier you are; if those salvoes hit, you are going to hurt and possibly explode. If that clears him out of a cap or distracts him from torpedoing my battleships, all the better despite the misses.)

If that ship is coming towards me with a lead I can reliably estimate? Focus is purely on the DD; I'll take my chances with the battleship.

[TheDreadnought]

On 1/26/2018 at 9:15 AM, Ramsalot said:

I often find ships ignoring high priority targets just to farm more damage.  It especially hurts on close games.  Cruisers would ignore destroyers at close range just to spread fires to high health BBs at maximum range.  BBs would not want to waste salvo on nearly dead ship to hit full health ship for more damage.  DDs would go out of their way for a suicide torp run.  Couple players openly admitted they needed a “good game” to increase their average damage for elite emblem, win or loss.

The top 3 xp emblems promote good gameplay.  We need more of those.  

Yep.

[_Dracarys]

On 1/26/2018 at 7:33 AM, Lert said:

This is nothing new. People like big numbers and think that big numbers mean they did well. While there's an element of truth to that, it's the good players that recognize when to go for the smaller targets.

I went for bigger target until I was told exp and money are awarded based on percent damage done instead of total dmg. Maybe WG can make that abundantly clear.