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Villagernumber1

really need guidance on Destroyers...

Which DD to use  

17 members have voted

  1. 1. Which dd is good?

    • IJN
      6
    • USN
      11

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So I'm fairly new still and was liking the ideas of torpedo gameplay...but as I climb higher in the tiers for IJN destroyers, i noticed they change quite a bit in playstyle...

I also noticed that I struggle a bit against USN DD's and Cruisers... 

In general, do I just cap objectives and target BB's and Carriers?

Do I stick to IJN DD's for the late tier rewards? Or should I switch over to US DD's while I still can? I've got a T5 IJN and a T4 USN

 

AGHHH CANT DECIDE HELP ME!!!!

Edited by Villagernumber1
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USN are stronger at high tiers. Fletcher is widely regarded as one of, if not the best destroyers in the game, whereas Shimakaze has a reputation as a one-trick pony that relies on the enemy being dumb rather than captain skill. At least that's what I hear, I'm only up to Akatsuki on the IJN main line. (And as always, there are great captains that can make the high-tier IJN boats sing with impressive battle results.)

That said, the USN are not as good torpedo boats, given the reduction in damage and flooding chance compared to IJN, though from Mahan on up they're capable of comfortably stealth-torping like the IJN.

But let me present a third option: Pan-Asian destroyers. If you like torpedo gameplay but also want to fight destroyers, it may be worth looking into. It's an odd amalgamation of destroyer types from different nations, so going up the tiers results in some forced playstyle changes, but the Tier 7 Gadjah Mada is considered strong in its tier, and the Tier 8+ destroyers are USN hulls and guns with devastating torpedoes that don't suffer the IJN detection penalty. Just note that Pan-Asian destroyers cannot hit other destroyers with torpedoes.

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1 minute ago, PelicanHazard said:

USN are stronger at high tiers. Fletcher is widely regarded as one of, if not the best destroyers in the game, whereas Shimakaze has a reputation as a one-trick pony that relies on the enemy being dumb rather than captain skill. At least that's what I hear, I'm only up to Akatsuki on the IJN main line. (And as always, there are great captains that can make the high-tier IJN boats sing with impressive battle results.)

That said, the USN are not as good torpedo boats, given the reduction in damage and flooding chance compared to IJN, though from Mahan on up they're capable of comfortably stealth-torping like the IJN.

But let me present a third option: Pan-Asian destroyers. If you like torpedo gameplay but also want to fight destroyers, it may be worth looking into. It's an odd amalgamation of destroyer types from different nations, so going up the tiers results in some forced playstyle changes, but the Tier 7 Gadjah Mada is considered strong in its tier, and the Tier 8+ destroyers are USN hulls and guns with devastating torpedoes that don't suffer the IJN detection penalty. Just note that Pan-Asian destroyers cannot hit other destroyers with torpedoes.

So essentially, USN DD's are going to be better for me as a player if I invest my time in it now right?

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USN DDs have a simpler playstyle that will get you some decent results without having to develop the nuance of a few hundred battles.

My personal favorite is the German DDs. To me, they feel like IJN DDs but better equipped to deal with problems.

Edited by pewpewpew42

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7 minutes ago, Villagernumber1 said:

So essentially, USN DD's are going to be better for me as a player if I invest my time in it now right?

No.

It depends on what you like.

USN are gunboats with meh torpedoes until higher tiers (Fletcher). Exception is Clemson, a monster at T4.

IJN are stealthy and sneaky torpedo boats. Excellent torpedoes from T4 (Isokaze) all the way up. Guns are slow reload and slow turret rotation but powerful punch and fire chance. All of them are good from T4 on with a couple of exceptions at T6 and maybe T7

KM are decent until T7. At T8 they get very good. They are all balanced with decent guns and torpedoes. At T8+ they get sonar, a powerful tool for DDs

RU are strong fighters (gunboats). Torpedoes are not that good until high tiers. Guns are excellent if slow to rotate. They start being good at T4 with improvements along the line. Ognevoy is probably the weak point with too few guns. Kiev (T8),  Udaloi (T9), Khabarovsk (T10) are absolute monsters in the right hands, very fast, excellent guns, meh torpedoes, and the concealment of a cruiser (meaning none). Grozovoi at T10 is very decent but below its counterparts.

PA are all decent, some very good. They are a mix of designs at different tiers, some Russian, some USN, some British/Dutch hybrids. Excellent smoke, very good guns, and some with good torpedoes, tough none of them can torpedo DDs as they all feature deep water torpedoes.

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14 minutes ago, Villagernumber1 said:

So essentially, USN DD's are going to be better for me as a player if I invest my time in it now right?

Possibly. Low tiers have a distinctly more chaotic and close-in playstyle than higher tiers, so which line you'll find better in the higher tiers depends on how you handle the change. At Tier X, the kind of so-close-you-can-reach-out-and-touch-them brawls that are regular in low tiers become much rarer and the various destroyer lines develop distinct roles.

To compare:

High tier USN are close quarters cap bullies. They're almost unmatched in their ability to take cap circles and hold them, and generally speaking are well-rounded jacks-of-all-trades, with torpedoes ranging from middle-of-the-road to good, and great close-range guns that suffer once the range opens up.

High tier IJN are fleet scouts. Few boats can outspot them, so they almost always see the enemy before the enemy sees them, which helps your team find danger. They have very damaging torpedoes, and a lot of them, but the torpedoes have punitive spotting penalties and the guns handicap your ability to push in close like you can with USN DDs. They require more thought than USN to get the most out of them, but if you succeed they can cause massive damage to any ship in short order, even the famously torpedo-resistant Yamato.

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16 minutes ago, alexf24 said:

No.

It depends on what you like.

USN are gunboats with meh torpedoes until higher tiers (Fletcher). Exception is Clemson, a monster at T4.

IJN are stealthy and sneaky torpedo boats. Excellent torpedoes from T4 (Isokaze) all the way up. Guns are slow reload and slow turret rotation but powerful punch and fire chance. All of them are good from T4 on with a couple of exceptions at T6 and maybe T7

KM are decent until T7. At T8 they get very good. They are all balanced with decent guns and torpedoes. At T8+ they get sonar, a powerful tool for DDs

RU are strong fighters (gunboats). Torpedoes are not that good until high tiers. Guns are excellent if slow to rotate. They start being good at T4 with improvements along the line. Ognevoy is probably the weak point with too few guns. Kiev (T8),  Udaloi (T9), Khabarovsk (T10) are absolute monsters in the right hands, very fast, excellent guns, meh torpedoes, and the concealment of a cruiser (meaning none). Grozovoi at T10 is very decent but below its counterparts.

PA are all decent, some very good. They are a mix of designs at different tiers, some Russian, some USN, some British/Dutch hybrids. Excellent smoke, very good guns, and some with good torpedoes, tough none of them can torpedo DDs as they all feature deep water torpedoes.

i might be doing something wrong then with my IJN playstyle... is it just cap points then torp from far, rinse repeat?

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Might want to take a look into the German DDs. From what I've seen their guns are decent and their Torpedoes are fairly quick to reload. 

Try looking for line breakdowns on YT if you have the time. Or watch reviews on T6-8 and T10. T10 because if you're going down a line you're probably dead set on going to the end; and if you don't like the end why push that focus? As for the T6-8 reviews those are the Teirs dedicated for Ranked play. Regardless of whether or not you decide to enter ranked, those ships are generally decent stopping points if you're not looking for a T10. And will have multiple different reviews for the ship. Sure a lot of YTs will suggest the same or similar builds. But because each plays slightly different their review on the ship will have slight variation. 

---

If you're dead set on IJN vs USN, and are interested in Torpedo gameplay then I'd suggest the IJN line. You're currently at IJN T5, you're at the junction of the IJN split, I highly suggest you grind out both Fubuki and Hatsuharu, at least until you've completed theit EXP requirements. By that point you probably would have decided on the heavy Torpedo Focus of the Mainline or the slightly less Torpedo focused alternative line. 

Within that time frame, playing the USN line on and off it would have caught up to your IJN line at least by Tier. Which going back to my earlier point "check out the DD reviews of T6-8 ranked ships" and see which late-tier style you prefer. 

Sure it's not a definite response to IJN or USN DDs. But you're not "wasting" time if your enjoying the ships your playing. Sure your not "grinding" as hard as you could be. But things don't get super-grind-y until T7+ so you have a little bit of time still to "mill around"

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To me (your mileage may vary), I prefer IJN DDs. 

First, DDs are pretty squishy. So showing yourself to everyone on the board when you fire your guns is not a good thing and USN DDs are primarily gunboats. I have managed to play entire matches without ever being spotted in IJN DDs. 

Second, While US DDs do have excellent smoke, it's become almost standard to fire a spread or two of torps into smoke. I've gotten dozens of "First Bloods" this way. And the USN DD depends on someone else being the spotter (IJN DD!!) while shooting from smoke. 

Third, USN DDs (and some cruisers) launch their projectiles into orbit and wait for them to come down. In the Mahan, I can get 3 volleys fired before the first one hits... at range. Of course, you really don't want to be shooting super close to anything. A BB will wreck and DD at close range. 

That's why I don't particularly like USN DDs. I play them and I'm advancing up the line and I do OK, but they just aren't my favorite. 

IJN boats have their problems (torpedoes that can be seen from space, boat can out turn its turrets, etc). And yes, you have to plan and think. IJN boats are not that great at contesting caps (unless it's empty) or the other player bumbles into your torps. Although, at higher tiers, their guns are pretty good. I chased a Midway that dodged all my torps, so I killed him with guns. How embarrassing, to be killed by cannon fire from an IJN DD. 

And, no, IJN torps are not spray and pray. If you're careful, you can actually cause ships to run into a spread of torps. Fire a spread, wait a few seconds, then fire another slightly behind the first. If the ship turns, the 2nd spread will hit. There's a lot of little tricks that will help like that. 

That all being said. There's not a rush to get to through the lines. Play them, learn them, and enjoy them. I have the Shimikaze, but still love my little T4 murder boat (Isokaze). I like the Clemson too and, so far, am enjoying the Mahan. Just find what you enjoy and then play it. 

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9 minutes ago, OgreMkV said:

To me (your mileage may vary), I prefer IJN DDs. 

First, DDs are pretty squishy. So showing yourself to everyone on the board when you fire your guns is not a good thing and USN DDs are primarily gunboats. I have managed to play entire matches without ever being spotted in IJN DDs. 

Second, While US DDs do have excellent smoke, it's become almost standard to fire a spread or two of torps into smoke. I've gotten dozens of "First Bloods" this way. And the USN DD depends on someone else being the spotter (IJN DD!!) while shooting from smoke. 

Third, USN DDs (and some cruisers) launch their projectiles into orbit and wait for them to come down. In the Mahan, I can get 3 volleys fired before the first one hits... at range. Of course, you really don't want to be shooting super close to anything. A BB will wreck and DD at close range. 

That's why I don't particularly like USN DDs. I play them and I'm advancing up the line and I do OK, but they just aren't my favorite. 

IJN boats have their problems (torpedoes that can be seen from space, boat can out turn its turrets, etc). And yes, you have to plan and think. IJN boats are not that great at contesting caps (unless it's empty) or the other player bumbles into your torps. Although, at higher tiers, their guns are pretty good. I chased a Midway that dodged all my torps, so I killed him with guns. How embarrassing, to be killed by cannon fire from an IJN DD. 

And, no, IJN torps are not spray and pray. If you're careful, you can actually cause ships to run into a spread of torps. Fire a spread, wait a few seconds, then fire another slightly behind the first. If the ship turns, the 2nd spread will hit. There's a lot of little tricks that will help like that. 

That all being said. There's not a rush to get to through the lines. Play them, learn them, and enjoy them. I have the Shimikaze, but still love my little T4 murder boat (Isokaze). I like the Clemson too and, so far, am enjoying the Mahan. Just find what you enjoy and then play it. 

don't get me wrong. I love the sight of sinking ships with torps. Problem being, I looked at the stats of all T10 DD's and see that IJN's tend to get outclassed in almost every way... yes they can shoot further and hurt more at 20km shooting range and 7km detection but Gearing isn't so bad with 16.5 km range and same detection range.... so it's really hard to see why I should pick IJN

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IJN DD is my choice.

FYI Gear and Shim have the same Detection with flags and Captain perks. 5.9.    Shim gets 3 options at torpedoes.  But its how you want to play them.

 

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14 minutes ago, Nachoo31 said:

IJN DD is my choice.

FYI Gear and Shim have the same Detection with flags and Captain perks. 5.9.    Shim gets 3 options at torpedoes.  But its how you want to play them.

 

I guess what I want is something that can torpedo as the main objective but if things get hairy, i would like to be able to use my guns to defend myself. As a T5  IJN DD (even upgraded guns for lower reload), sure I can torp carriers and bb's but moment a cruiser or dd sets eyes on me, I'm done... 

So I'm assuming, in T10 that goes just as much as in T5... but we'll see. I'll just do more research. I see no harm in playing both USN and IJN

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31 minutes ago, Villagernumber1 said:

I guess what I want is something that can torpedo as the main objective but if things get hairy, i would like to be able to use my guns to defend myself. As a T5  IJN DD (even upgraded guns for lower reload), sure I can torp carriers and bb's but moment a cruiser or dd sets eyes on me, I'm done... 

So I'm assuming, in T10 that goes just as much as in T5... but we'll see. I'll just do more research. I see no harm in playing both USN and IJN

IJN have trouble fighting back. But there are tactics you can do to survive cruiser attacks.  It a skill that most DD can't do right out of the gate.  The speedy cruiser will be harder to do.   This is where situational awareness is a must.  Don't get in those situations.  If you do, make sure you have a plan to get the kill.  A good tactic is if you can take someone with you.  Tier 6, 7, IJN have 2 sets of torpedoes, a good tactic is not to throw all of the torpedoes at once. Unless you got them coming around an island. Always keep a set on hand.  Guns should only be used to assist someone to hope to draw fire at you or the target is low health.  Confirm that kill.

Here is the challenge, save your smoke.  DD on DD battle.  Change speeds, stop instantly increase speed again. Make them burn that smoke (if they have it, and expect torpedoes). Head on a Swivel.  

Caps, you don't have to rush right in.  Skirt the outside, toss a torp towards smoke or those hiding spots.  You will figure the sneaky spots DD hang out when you play the maps over and over.  If you get spanked note the tactics those used against you.

Remember have fun.

 

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1 hour ago, Villagernumber1 said:

don't get me wrong. I love the sight of sinking ships with torps. Problem being, I looked at the stats of all T10 DD's and see that IJN's tend to get outclassed in almost every way... yes they can shoot further and hurt more at 20km shooting range and 7km detection but Gearing isn't so bad with 16.5 km range and same detection range.... so it's really hard to see why I should pick IJN

I don't totally disagree. But getting to Gearing is a PITA. And it's still a gunboat. Shima's guns are actually pretty good. I can chase off most other DDs if I play it smart. 

I just prefer the sneaky snake torp ninja to orbital fire. 

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3 hours ago, Villagernumber1 said:

So I'm fairly new still and was liking the ideas of torpedo gameplay...but as I climb higher in the tiers for IJN destroyers, i noticed they change quite a bit in playstyle...

I also noticed that I struggle a bit against USN DD's and Cruisers... 

In general, do I just cap objectives and target BB's and Carriers?

Do I stick to IJN DD's for the late tier rewards? Or should I switch over to US DD's while I still can? I've got a T5 IJN and a T4 USN

 

AGHHH CANT DECIDE HELP ME!!!!

Buy the sims 3 ships in one package and the most fun you will ever have in a dd.

 

Long range mine layer.

Awesome in close killer and capper.

Amazing aa boat.

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55 minutes ago, Villagernumber1 said:

I guess what I want is something that can torpedo as the main objective but if things get hairy, i would like to be able to use my guns to defend myself. As a T5  IJN DD (even upgraded guns for lower reload), sure I can torp carriers and bb's but moment a cruiser or dd sets eyes on me, I'm done... 

So I'm assuming, in T10 that goes just as much as in T5... but we'll see. I'll just do more research. I see no harm in playing both USN and IJN

Highly advise you look into the German DDs based on the characteristics you're looking for. 

They're something inbetween IJN and USN. Their guns are decent, torps are decent, has access to Hydro starting T6. 

If you're going off the Wiki the KM DD at T6 is listed "slowest Torpedo reload at Tier" don't let those words fool you; its plenty quick enough at 90s reload. This reload value also does not change for the following tiers. 

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20 minutes ago, Ivlerlin said:

Highly advise you look into the German DDs based on the characteristics you're looking for. 

They're something inbetween IJN and USN. Their guns are decent, torps are decent, has access to Hydro starting T6. 

If you're going off the Wiki the KM DD at T6 is listed "slowest Torpedo reload at Tier" don't let those words fool you; its plenty quick enough at 90s reload. This reload value also does not change for the following tiers. 

Gaede is amazing.

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7 hours ago, Nachoo31 said:

IJN have trouble fighting back. But there are tactics you can do to survive cruiser attacks.  It a skill that most DD can't do right out of the gate.  The speedy cruiser will be harder to do.   This is where situational awareness is a must.  Don't get in those situations.  If you do, make sure you have a plan to get the kill.  A good tactic is if you can take someone with you.  Tier 6, 7, IJN have 2 sets of torpedoes, a good tactic is not to throw all of the torpedoes at once. Unless you got them coming around an island. Always keep a set on hand.  Guns should only be used to assist someone to hope to draw fire at you or the target is low health.  Confirm that kill.

Here is the challenge, save your smoke.  DD on DD battle.  Change speeds, stop instantly increase speed again. Make them burn that smoke (if they have it, and expect torpedoes). Head on a Swivel.  

Caps, you don't have to rush right in.  Skirt the outside, toss a torp towards smoke or those hiding spots.  You will figure the sneaky spots DD hang out when you play the maps over and over.  If you get spanked note the tactics those used against you.

Remember have fun.

 

I'm glad you mentioned those actually. I seem to have done exactly opposite of that... in my T5 IJN DD, I guess I played it like a brawler. I rushed into caps and get slammed by USN DD's and Cruisers out in the horizon... I guess I should loop around and just send torps in eh?

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7 hours ago, OgreMkV said:

I don't totally disagree. But getting to Gearing is a PITA. And it's still a gunboat. Shima's guns are actually pretty good. I can chase off most other DDs if I play it smart. 

I just prefer the sneaky snake torp ninja to orbital fire. 

Yeah I'll just grind both lines spending my fxp on IJN and grinding USN normal way...

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7 hours ago, abyssofthetriffid said:

Buy the sims 3 ships in one package and the most fun you will ever have in a dd.

 

Long range mine layer.

Awesome in close killer and capper.

Amazing aa boat.

I don't see this package.... it's in premium shop?

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Just now, Villagernumber1 said:

is that how it works for fxp and premium ships? Since they don't move down the tier lines and don't need research points it just all goes into fxp?

No it gains xp and you have to use doubloons to change it.

I could get the missouri and mushashi and nelson right now for cash.

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