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dmckay

Tier 5 is weird. Yes.

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Tier 5 is weird. Why?  I have Murmansk...nice ship and very potent...but always looking UP at higher tier stuff....damn near always.  Ok!  Fun. But why is tier 5 weird?  If ya don't think it is weird no problem.  BUT I think it is the bast#ard child of all tiers I have played up thru 7.  Rant over.

 \Odd tier. Rant NOT over!  Ranting!  Odd. Have at it. 

Edited by dmckay

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Tier 5 is weird no question. This imo has happened because of the 1-4 tier safety zone imposed by WG. Until this changes the tier 5 MM will alway be weird.

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Tier 5 is weird because tier 4 never sees tier 6, and there are more players in tier 6 and 7 than tier 4, which means lots and lots and lots of bottom tier for tier 5

 

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I think the problem might be that at Tier 5, you can get up-tiered not once but twice. So instead of fighting ships that are a little better than yours, you end up fighting ships that are a lot better than yours. Here's a handy chart for those who don't know what either of us are talking about. :Smile-_tongue: 

Spoiler

dSvcneZ.png

I'm not saying T5 ships are bad... it's just because more people refer to play in the mid tiers than the low tiers, which means because of the change of MM at T5, they'll often times be bottom tiered because they just can't be top tier. Do I like it? No. Does it work? Yes. Though, I'd rather be in a T5 ship fighting a T7 ship than be in a prehistoric era T4 boat and have to fight a WW2 naval vessel from T6. So I have no complaints. :Smile_smile:

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5 minutes ago, cometguy said:

Tier 5 is weird because tier 4 never sees tier 6, and there are more players in tier 6 and 7 than tier 4, which means lots and lots and lots of bottom tier for tier 5

 

Gee.  You guys agree!  Tier 5 IS weird. Soooo because of tier 4....got it!  Tier 5 is weird. tks

 

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+/-1 MM across the board plox :Smile_hiding:

 

 

Also let's un-nerf T1 while we're at it plox 

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1 minute ago, AllysaRockz said:

I think the problem might be that at Tier 5, you can get up-tiered not once but twice. So instead of fighting ships that are a little better than yours, you end up fighting ships that are a lot better than yours. Here's a handy chart for those who don't know what either of us are talking about. :Smile-_tongue: 

  Reveal hidden contents

dSvcneZ.png

I'm not saying T5 ships are bad... it's just because more people refer to play in the mid tiers than the low tiers, which means because of the change of MM at T5, they'll often times be bottom tiered because they just can't be top tier. Do I like it? No. Does it work? Yes. Though, I'd rather be in a T5 ship fighting a T7 ship than be in a prehistoric era T4 boat and have to fight a WW2 naval vessel from T6. So I have no complaints. :Smile_smile:

Actually I kinda like trying to do good in tier 5 in Murmansk when I am fighting ships 2 tiers higher.  I am kinda like that.  THE CHALLENGE!!  But, of course, their are those in this game that want every battle perfectly even......want a perfect MM.  What is the challenge in that Pray tell??  Besides WG cannot make a perfect MM and that is not their fault.  But the crap bout MM goes on and on and on....and on. :Smile_honoring:

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Tier 5 being bottom tier literally 60% of the time, according to thousands of games gathered by dozens of players, is pretty much the #1 cause of churn in this game.

 

Players hit tier 5, start facing tier 7 ships that are substantially better than their stock Furutaka or New York, and quit.

 

Or they power through tier 5, hoping tier 6 will be better, only to start slamming into Alabamas and Amagis in their stock New Mexico or Aoba.

 

Experienced players can make it work, but even the best players on the server get tired of being bottom tier all the time.

Edited by AraAragami
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6 minutes ago, pikohan said:

+/-1 MM across the board plox :Smile_hiding:

 

 

Also let's un-nerf T1 while we're at it plox 

NO.  I did not ask for that. Maybe ok but ya need a great big pool of players to make that happen consistently.  Now, you know that!  Carry on.

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2 minutes ago, dmckay said:

NO.  I did not ask for that. Maybe ok but ya need a great big pool of players to make that happen consistently.  Now, you know that!  Carry on.

The playerbase is large enough to sustain it right now.

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2 minutes ago, AraAragami said:

Tier 5 being bottom tier literally 60% of the time, according to thousands of games gathered by dozens of players, is pretty much the #1 cause of churn in this game.

 

Players hit tier 5, start facing tier 7 ships that are substantially better than their stock Furutaka or New York, and quit.

 

Or they power through tier 5, hoping tier 6 will be better, only to start slamming into Alabamas and Amagis in their stock New Mexico or Aoba.

 

Experienced players can make it work, but even the best players on the server get tired of being bottom tier all the time.

Well ya.  I do not recall ever being top ship in Murmansk in tier 5...not once.  But I have not played her all that much. IF I could get better in her, which I am trying to do, she is a hell of a ship actually. Have had a few very good tier 5 matches in her.   In tier 4 she would be OP.  Totally IMO. Just blabbing tonight. Etc...

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3 minutes ago, AraAragami said:

The playerbase is large enough to sustain it right now.

I do not think so...at least not consistently. Dunno.  Maybe.

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15 minutes ago, pikohan said:

+/-1 MM across the board plox :Smile_hiding:

 

 

Also let's un-nerf T1 while we're at it plox 

 

7 minutes ago, dmckay said:

NO.  I did not ask for that. Maybe ok but ya need a great big pool of players to make that happen consistently.  Now, you know that!  Carry on.

 

4 minutes ago, AraAragami said:

The playerbase is large enough to sustain it right now.

It isn't just the player base size it is ships balanced for three tier matches. Any ship that is even slightly overpowered will become more overpowered which is not balanced by weaker ships performing better. We have that with the teir 3's & 4's now because of the MM change, do you want that to happen across the board.

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18 minutes ago, pikohan said:

+/-1 MM across the board plox :Smile_hiding:

 

 

Also let's un-nerf T1 while we're at it plox 

What is "plox".  Also, what is wrong with tier 1. Just asking. 

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24 minutes ago, AllysaRockz said:

I think the problem might be that at Tier 5, you can get up-tiered not once but twice. So instead of fighting ships that are a little better than yours, you end up fighting ships that are a lot better than yours. Here's a handy chart for those who don't know what either of us are talking about. :Smile-_tongue: 

  Hide contents

dSvcneZ.png

I'm not saying T5 ships are bad... it's just because more people refer to play in the mid tiers than the low tiers, which means because of the change of MM at T5, they'll often times be bottom tiered because they just can't be top tier. Do I like it? No. Does it work? Yes. Though, I'd rather be in a T5 ship fighting a T7 ship than be in a prehistoric era T4 boat and have to fight a WW2 naval vessel from T6. So I have no complaints. :Smile_smile:

Nice info! 

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4 minutes ago, BrushWolf said:

It isn't just the player base size it is ships balanced for three tier matches. Any ship that is even slightly overpowered will become more overpowered which is not balanced by weaker ships performing better. We have that with the teir 3's & 4's now because of the MM change, do you want that to happen across the board.

There actually are examples of ships that have moved to +1/-1 MM and have been buffed. Therefore, claiming that ships would be nerfed due to becoming overpowered in +1/-1 is just alarmism. There is nothing to support this claim and, in fact, the exact opposite has been true so far. Logic also dictates that mass nerfs will not be necessary.

 

Kongo does not magically become OP just because it no longer encounters Nagato. Because theoretically New York, Konig, and Iron Duke were also balanced to the same standard.

 

In fact, +1/-1 will make balancing easier. Especially for carriers. It also makes other ships, particularly cruisers, more appealing to play. +1/-1 actually stands to improve viability of current poor performers and the variety of ships encountered in any given match. Examples of ships helped by +1/-1: Emerald, Furutaka, Murmansk/Omaha/Marblehead, Kirov...

Edited by AraAragami
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Tier 5 would be good if the MM was really an MM instead of an experiment gone wrong.

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1 minute ago, Sovereigndawg said:

Tier 5 would be good if the MM was really an MM instead of an experiment gone wrong.

How is your weather up there?  Warmed up? 

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1 minute ago, AraAragami said:

There actually are examples of ships that have moved to +1/-1 MM and have been buffed. Therefore, claiming that ships would be nerfed due to becoming overpowered in +1/-1 is just alarmism. There is nothing to support this claim and, in fact, the exact opposite has been true so far. Logic also dictates that mass nerfs will not be necessary.

 

Kongo does not magically become OP just because it no longer encounters Nagato. Because theoretically New York, Konig, and Iron Duke were also balanced to the same standard.

 

In fact, +1/-1 will make balancing easier. Especially for carriers. It also makes other ships, particularly cruisers, more appealing to play. +1/-1 actually stands to improve ship viability and the variety of ships encountered in any given match.

That is what I am saying, the currently strong ships would become stronger and the weak ships would become stronger but they would gain less than the strong ships. You can see this in tiers 3 & 4 now.

 

Just now, dmckay said:

How is your weather up there?  Warmed up? 

They got slammed with snow while up in Northern MN in Duluth we got a dusting.

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Just now, dmckay said:

How is your weather up there?  Warmed up? 

Warmer but just got 8 inches of snow day before yesterday. The first real snow so far.

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12 minutes ago, dmckay said:

I do not think so...at least not consistently. Dunno.  Maybe.

If it's consistent enough for T3 and 4, it's consistent enough for T5 +

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Just now, BrushWolf said:

That is what I am saying, the currently strong ships would become stronger and the weak ships would become stronger but they would gain less than the strong ships. You can see this in tiers 3 & 4 now.

Negative. Strong ships won't really get stronger. Weak ships won't really get stronger, either. They'll just become a bit more appealing when they aren't outclassed quite as badly.

 

The main benefit of +1/-1 is that the game will feel more fair to those involved, anyway. I'd rather encounter Leanders and Aobas in my Emerald than Fijis and Myokos.

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1 minute ago, AraAragami said:

Negative. Strong ships won't really get stronger. Weak ships won't really get stronger, either. They'll just become a bit more appealing when they aren't outclassed quite as badly.

 

The main benefit of +1/-1 is that the game will feel more fair to those involved, anyway. I'd rather encounter Leanders and Aobas in my Emerald than Fijis and Myokos.

Really, look at the Nikolai which had an overall win rate around 56% and was considered to be overpowered and now has a 60% win rate. There are ships like the Emerald that really do struggle in three tier matches even with smart play but that can be handled by preferred MM for them or better yet buffing or replacement with a new ship.

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5 minutes ago, AraAragami said:

Negative. Strong ships won't really get stronger. Weak ships won't really get stronger, either. They'll just become a bit more appealing when they aren't outclassed quite as badly.

 

The main benefit of +1/-1 is that the game will feel more fair to those involved, anyway. I'd rather encounter Leanders and Aobas in my Emerald than Fijis and Myokos.

In before myoko and fiji players chime in that they are looking for a challenge.

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Going to bed with the calm satisfaction that I kinda kicked up a ruckus. I think.  Maybe. :Smile_izmena:

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