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CatWithBagOnHead

Ideas to Discourage "Static" Gameplay

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First off, I know that this is not a sim like Fighting Steel (those were the days).

That being said, the amount of World of TanksTM tactics that I see on a day-to-day basis is disappointing. Don't get me wrong, tanking, reverse tanking, HE spamming, stealth firing from smoke or behind islands are all valid tactics within the mechanics of this game. They work. Employed effectively, they win.

But are they fun?

Is it fun to have to switch to HE and burn down a BB who is tanking/reverse tanking in order to burn him down? Or watch your idiot teammate do it and get burnt down and/or torpedoed?

Is it fun that ships which have no direct line of sight to you can blind-fire with missile-like accuracy?

Is it fun that a ship can go 0-30 knots in 1.5 seconds? (Yeah, if it's your ship).

As a naval historian and researcher, I foolishly tried to play ships like they are known to be handled. Rule #1 is that speed is life; you stop, you die. And my stats showed. They were horrible.

To "git gud", I had to embrace all of the aforementioned mechanics. And my stats have improved remarkably. 

Winning is fun. Playing is a chore.

Are people happy with such static gameplay? Would we like to see mechanic changes to encourage more fluid/in motion game play?

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Personally I am not a fan of the current mechanics. I've all but stopped playing randoms because of it. Its stupid, boring, and unentertaining to the point where I play a single game and instantly want to go play something else instead.

 

Operations have mostly fixed that issue, because the way they're set up allow for more normal realistic naval tactics, so they've become a bit more fun... but randoms is just an unending drivel of stupidity and extremely boring gameplay that I have 0 interest in taking part of anymore unless I 100% have no choice to...

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I know... employ a flooding mechanic (like when torpedoed) that begins when your ship stops. You can't reset the count by starting up again, only stop the 'taking on water' count thingy. How's that? Will that satisfy all the "I wish all the ship played the way I want them to play" crowd?

From where comes this "if you ain't movin' you ain't playing" philosophy???

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Remove personal performance as the only way to get rewards in game.

 

Make reward base solely on match's outcome. 

 

Instant change in behavior guaranteed. 

 

But that's not going to happen, because of the business model, so WG did the next best thing in WoT after years, by increasing "assists". A thing that WG knows it makes the players behaves better and everyone feeling better, yet does not implement in WoWS. F you WG, F you.

Edited by NeutralState

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3 hours ago, NeutralState said:

Remove personal performance as the only way to get rewards in game.

 

Make reward base solely on match's outcome. 

 

Instant change in behavior guaranteed. 

 

But that's not going to happen, because of the business model, so WG did the next best thing in WoT after years, by increasing "assists". A thing that WG knows it makes the players behaves better and everyone feeling better, yet does not implement in WoWS. F you WG, F you.

For even more instant change remove all rewards for damage done and add rewards for potential damage. Quadruple rewards for capping.

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3 hours ago, NeutralState said:

Remove personal performance as the only way to get rewards in game.

 

Make reward base solely on the match's outcome.

I dunno, I think the compromise is needed. I don't want to feel like I can go make a sandwich, and then come back to a cornucopia of rewards, just because I had a uni div on my team.

I mean, ok, you get this if you win, that if you lose. Does everyone on the winning team get exactly the same reward?

If MM Monitor shows me we're a shoe-in, why shouldn't I just set my ship on autopilot for the nearest cap and go for a smoke?

I agree with your point though. One thing is, I'm under the impression that only XP gets a win bonus. Is this correct?

I think what would do the trick is tone down personal rewards, and then double the win bonus. That way, winning is important, but it doesn't do much for you if you don't do much.

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47 minutes ago, Skpstr said:

If MM Monitor shows me we're a shoe-in, why shouldn't I just set my ship on autopilot for the nearest cap and go for a smoke?

For this one its easy - smoking is bad for your health.

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Increased accuracy against targets moving at 1/4th or less of their top speed.

 

Immediate punishment for bow-on campers, reverses, border sliders, and acts as incentive for focused fire on targets with disabled engines who lack Last Stand.

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Maybe Play the game for something unheard of like"FUN" Play your ship play your style and "Stop Dictating how others Play" What a Concept! There is no team play in randoms there is no team play in Co-Op. There is You and 11 strangers on one side and 12 on the other. Your exp is non existent to the other 23 players. Just stop expecting  23 others to play your way. There are 24 total ideas of how to play in one game what makes your way the best? I as a player think all others who play are the same as I, Playing for Fun, relaxation, a get away from the headaches and stress of living life. All I see is suggestions on how to make the game more of a JOB and less of the fun. I can't speak for the rest of the player base ,But I say  Go to He double hockey sticks. Play your game not mine.

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I like the idea of bot submarines put in on the opposing team's side. If everyone is moving it is forced to surface where you can kill it easily... if anyone is lurking behind islands it can stay submerged and sink with relative immunity unless someone has hydro to detect it. You could then ALT drop depth charges along a route that takes you over the sub's marking on the water from your DD.

I don't like the idea of submarines at all- but I don't like the camping even more. 

Edited by Gascan75

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Introduce a new match type called Bikini Atoll. Every second a ship is not damaged or cap not contested results in a secondary counter ticking off points. Once the points reach zero, the screen turns into a fireball, all ships sink, and XP/silver is awarded based on Co-op calculations.

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Alpha Tester, In AlfaTesters
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I too have noticed how much more fun the ops are because they require you to keep moving and not park/camp/bow tank.

Here are some thoughts I've had:

  • Make a targeted Ships' incoming ordinance dispersion related to speed, i.e. the slower that a ship goes, the more accurate enemy ordinance shot at it is, much like the opposite of how camo increases dispersion of enemy ordinance shot at you.
  • Ships shooting at targets that are spotted indirectly (i.e. not directly spotted visually or by sensors) suffer a MASSIVE dispersion penalty when they shoot. That would cut down on the smoke camping, and blind firing from behind island.
  • Rework H/E mechanic. Have H/E NOT act like NAPALM. Instead have HE cause some HP loss, but instead of causing fires, it stuns the Captain's skills. Fires should be caused by penetrating hits to the Citadel or turret stocks.
  • Ships' start in 2 rows of "Line ahead" formation, not like how World of Tanks looks like an airstrike formation.
  • Ships that hit the map edge bounce off it like a wall so that there will be no more border surfing.

BBs are meant to slug it out against other BBs in a Battle Line at medium to long ranges.

CA/CLs are meant to screen BBs and CVs against DDs and other cruisers.

DDs are meant to scout and deliver torpedo attacks against enemy battle lines from stealth, not go rootin' tootin' shootin' with their main guns.

CVs are meant to scout and attack other CVs as well as other surface ships.

The game does not at this time encourage play by type, it encourages maximize the mechanics, and that is why we get the static, stagnant, unimaginative game-play we've seen.

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am i the only one thinking....... 

why people want CV to constantly draw circles, and what's so bad about sitting still  while capping in my DD

 

some of the suggestions are just too "weird" I'm not sure if troll

 

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Reading posts like this make me feel like I'm playing an entirely different game. I don't feel like gameplay is campy at any tier, whether 4 or 10.

If you want a "speed to full, forward and shooting" type of gameplay coop and operations are basically that. But randoms have a massive amount of early positioning/strategy/pushing that happens. 

Just because 1/2 of the team isn't dead 5 minutes in doesn't mean its "campy."

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3 hours ago, Garrcia said:

For this one its easy - smoking is bad for your health.

I should have said a "smoke". :Smile_teethhappy:

That IS good for my health, better anyway than the pills I'm prescribed instead. The alternative is about 3-4 hrs. of sleep a night....

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51 minutes ago, jason199506 said:

am i the only one thinking....... 

why people want CV to constantly draw circles, and what's so bad about sitting still  while capping in my DD

 

some of the suggestions are just too "weird" I'm not sure if troll

Nobody said anything about carriers drawing circles-- but they should follow the fleet at a safe distance.

 

Not trolling. The logic is that stationary targets are easier to hit.

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4 minutes ago, AraAragami said:

Nobody said anything about carriers drawing circles-- but they should follow the fleet at a safe distance.

 

Not trolling. The logic is that stationary targets are easier to hit.

referring to that "if you stop you flood" post.....

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I still like my idea for how to deal with passive gameplay: XP/Credits are effected by a 'range' modifier, that is to say, based on range to target, XP/Credits earned per action are multiplied by a modifier that increases with decreasing range (inversely proportional).

For example, hypothetically, let's say right now, landing a citadel translates into 100 XP and 10000 Credits. Under my idea, let's say the modifiers scale every 2 km by 10% after 6 km. So 0-6 km, actions are worth 100% so landing a cit at 6km gives you 100 XP and 10000 credits. At 8km they are worth 90%, at 10km they are worth 80%, at 16km they are worth 50% and so on and so forth to say, maybe, a minimum of 20% multiplier at 22km+. So that means a BB sniping at 20 km only earns 30% of the XP/Credits they would normally or 30 XP and 3000 credits instead of the 'normal' 100/10000. So if they want, BB's and indeed DD's who spam at max range, can do so, nothing in the game STOPS them from doing it (so you can still play the game the way you want, as I am loath to outright hinder a particular play-style), but it's FAR less rewarding and at higher tiers, may not be economically sustainable for long. You want to sit at 18km and snipe? Go for it. But will you at T8+ almost 100% of the time earn negative credits, even in a 200k+ Damaging game with HC + KU + CF? Yep. If you can live with that, fine, but many people will not be happy with that outcome.

Edited by _RC1138

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7 minutes ago, jason199506 said:

referring to that "if you stop you flood" post.....

Oh I must have missed that one.

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Alternatively, I also still think my idea of making everyone on the losing team blow up, regardless of health, and having the XP/Credits associated with their death evenly distributed to the surviving enemy players,

This way 'hiding' to live, or even, and I admit *I* do this a lot, hiding to simply DENY the enemy team XP/Credits, doesn't work anymore. Go ahead, hide in the back and avoid combat, well, you're going to blow up AND give the enemy team free XP/Credits ANYWAY, so there is *0* motivation to hide and avoid damage. AND it still encourages sussing out and finding final, hiding enemy because if *you* get the kill/damage, you get a greater proportion of the XP/Credits than just sitting back and letting them blow up at the end.

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1 minute ago, _RC1138 said:

Alternatively, I also still think my idea of making everyone on the losing team blow up, regardless of health, and having the XP/Credits associated with their death evenly distributed to the surviving enemy players,

This way 'hiding' to live, or even, and I admit *I* do this a lot, hiding to simply DENY the enemy team XP/Credits, doesn't work anymore. Go ahead, hide in the back and avoid combat, well, you're going to blow up AND give the enemy team free XP/Credits ANYWAY, so there is *0* motivation to hide and avoid damage. AND it still encourages sussing out and finding final, hiding enemy because if *you* get the kill/damage, you get a greater proportion of the XP/Credits than just sitting back and letting them blow up at the end.

And yet, you know people will still do it all the time.

 

I'm not terribly fond of your "range-based" rewards either, as this unnecessarily punishes ships that are bad at close ranges (IE Yamato, Khabarovsk, Shimakaze) and similarly unnecessarily props up brawlers/ships that are poor at long range but excel at close range (IE: Kurfurst, Gearing).

Edited by AraAragami

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Just now, AraAragami said:

And yet, you know people will still do it all the time.

I don't think so. Not once it happens for a few weeks. You'll get a lot of posts on the forums/redit "Hey, why did my ship randomly explode? No one was shooting at me?" but once it happens for a few weeks and it dawns on all players, "Well crap, my k/d ratio/vindictiveness towards not giving the enemy free XP/Credits/dumbly not being aware that repair costs are no longer tied (and haven't been for more than a year) to damage received/survival rate is buggered no matter what if we lose, so me hiding in the back so that I can run away if the going gets tough doesn't work, I may as well play a little more forward than normal." I'll take a SMALL victory over no victory. If we can get even a few more BB's the decrease their average engagement range by 2 km, that would be worth having my ship detonate at the end of every match.

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1 minute ago, _RC1138 said:

I don't think so. Not once it happens for a few weeks. You'll get a lot of posts on the forums/redit "Hey, why did my ship randomly explode? No one was shooting at me?" but once it happens for a few weeks and it dawns on all players, "Well crap, my k/d ratio/vindictiveness towards not giving the enemy free XP/Credits/dumbly not being aware that repair costs are no longer tied (and haven't been for more than a year) to damage received/survival rate is buggered no matter what if we lose, so me hiding in the back so that I can run away if the going gets tough doesn't work, I may as well play a little more forward than normal." I'll take a SMALL victory over no victory. If we can get even a few more BB's the decrease their average engagement range by 2 km, that would be worth having my ship detonate at the end of every match.

No. People will still do it specifically because spreading the reward for their death across 12 enemies is more successfully spiteful than letting one person kill them from full. Or they'll run because staying alive longer means a bit more XP for them. Or they'll run because they don't stand a chance and would rather avoid the fight entirely. Or they run so they don't give someone the satisfaction of a 'Destroyed' ribbon.

 

It'll still happen. And probably with the same frequency. If it reduces at all, I wouldn't expect it to reduce by much.

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1 minute ago, AraAragami said:

No. People will still do it specifically because spreading the reward for their death across 12 enemies is more successfully spiteful than letting one person kill them from full. Or they'll run because staying alive longer means a bit more XP for them. Or they'll run because they don't stand a chance and would rather avoid the fight entirely. Or they run so they don't give someone the satisfaction of a 'Destroyed' ribbon.

 

It'll still happen. And probably with the same frequency. If it reduces at all, I wouldn't expect it to reduce by much.

Well specifically I would only have your auto-death XP/Credits spread to the SURVIVING members of the Red team, so if it's 1 on 1, it goes all to the one guy left, so spitefulness, while still possible, is not AS useful. And simply staying alive does not net much XP, and I don't think people RUN for this reason. Most of the time, when I ask "Why are you guys hiding in the back," the answers I get are more often than not 3 things;

1. "I don't want large repair bills" (most angering), "

2. "I don't want to die," (either because of k/d, survivability% or thinking that dying is the worst thing that can happen in game)

3. "I don't want the enemy to get a kill"

Well my idea more or less addresses these completely: even if you're dumb enough to still think repair bills are related to damage taken, you blowing up on every loss pretty much ends THAT as a priority, your K/D Survive% is buggered no matter what, and the enemy is getting a kill credit if you run or not.

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10 minutes ago, _RC1138 said:

Well specifically I would only have your auto-death XP/Credits spread to the SURVIVING members of the Red team, so if it's 1 on 1, it goes all to the one guy left, so spitefulness, while still possible, is not AS useful. And simply staying alive does not net much XP, and I don't think people RUN for this reason. Most of the time, when I ask "Why are you guys hiding in the back," the answers I get are more often than not 3 things;

1. "I don't want large repair bills" (most angering), "

2. "I don't want to die," (either because of k/d, survivability% or thinking that dying is the worst thing that can happen in game)

3. "I don't want the enemy to get a kill"

Well my idea more or less addresses these completely: even if you're dumb enough to still think repair bills are related to damage taken, you blowing up on every loss pretty much ends THAT as a priority, your K/D Survive% is buggered no matter what, and the enemy is getting a kill credit if you run or not.

We're talking about a playerbase with a not-insignificant population that thinks it's okay to TK destroyers who don't do exactly what they want or carry the consumables they want.

 

Never underestimate the depravity of an online playerbase. If they can troll via denying a kill, they will, regardless of the XP/credits reward.

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