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NeoRussia

Carriers in Clan Battles

Should carriers be included in clan battles?   

154 members have voted

  1. 1. Should carriers be included in clan battles?

    • Yes
      91
    • No
      63

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Now that we have had the experience of one season of clan battles, do you think it is unfair that Wargaming has once again not included carriers in Clan battles? Whether you answer yes or no, please state your reasoning below. 

Personally, I think that not including carriers in Clan battles was a terrible decision. It is very unfair for all of the prominent clans since they all have dedicated carrier players, and having to build specific captains and strategies to deal with playing without a carrier has created a lot of unbalance in the meta and a divergence from the standard play that is seen in random battles and all competitive events most of which are tier 10 and include carriers and are much better for it. 

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If you propose to allow carriers in clan battles, do you propose the clan battle matchmaker only match teams that have brought a carrier against other teams that have one?  It's problematic either way.

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Only a fraction of the player base play CV enough to actually be CV players. For most of us they are a class we avoid and rarely play.

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15 minutes ago, Brhinosaurus said:

If you propose to allow carriers in clan battles, do you propose the clan battle matchmaker only match teams that have brought a carrier against other teams that have one?  It's problematic either way.

That is one option. It also makes sense to have it as a requirement, but below typhoon you can probably get away with not having a carrier at all vs a team with one. Since rental ships encompass all classes this would include carriers as well so no clan has an excuse not to field one if they want to unless Wargaming is not going to let us reskill our captains for free again. 

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i don't really like the idea of putting the win/loss of an entire team onto one player

last season the sole BB already felt like this, i felt like it should be limited to BB/CA/DD = 2/3/2 or 2/2/3 , instead of having people bring all sorts of crazy team into  CW (referring to shima*7 or moskva*6)

this make sure if someone on your team mess up/disconnect/whatever, theres still a chance to make up for it

Edited by jason199506

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Clan battles is the game mode where players can most easily neutralize a carrier, because you get to choose your entire team's ship composition.

Ok guys, how many AA cruisers do we want to bring?

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I tend to think a team that doesn't bring a carrier is going to get demolished by one that does, assuming the carrier is in any way competent.  Even if the non-carrier team brings heavy AA, they're going to have to cluster up or the roamers are going to get picked off.  No more sending one DD and one cruiser to capture a far zone.  The carrier team would have flexibility and near-total map awareness on their side.  That in turn makes it effectively a requirement to bring a carrier.  Since so few people play carriers and few of them play them well, the whole season would basically boil down to which clans have the best CV drivers.  Doesn't sound fun.

Alternately, if the game is set up so that only teams bringing a carrier may see a carrier (like Ranked battles), I would tend to think most clans will choose not to, and the ones that do will have long queue times and face the same few clans oer and over again.

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2 minutes ago, jason199506 said:

i don't really like the idea of putting the win/loss of an entire team onto one player

last season the sole BB already felt like this, i felt like it should be limited to BB/CA/DD = 2/3/2 or 2/2/3 , instead of having people bring all sorts of crazy team into  CW (referring to shima*7 or moskva*6)

A good CV does not make as much of an impact in clan battles as in random battles, especially when he's facing off against equally skilled opponents. Most typhoon clans last season chose to field very cruiser-heavy teams due to the maps not being very cap-heavy, which will also make carriers less impactful when they face off against one or no DD teams. 

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Matchmaking troubles aside, I still agree with WG reasoning the CVs would provide "unlimited spotting" ...  Basically, with Hakuryu's 8 squadrons, you could spot the whole map.

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5 minutes ago, NeoRussia said:

A good CV does not make as much of an impact in clan battles as in random battles, especially when he's facing off against equally skilled opponents. Most typhoon clans last season chose to field very cruiser-heavy teams due to the maps not being very cap-heavy, which will also make carriers less impactful when they face off against one or no DD teams. 

"equally skilled", thats the point, your clan NEED a skilled CV to do CW then.....if he have something in real life to deal with, your clan might as well be forbidden to CW until he is back , and i dont like this idea

last CW season my clan switch cruiser/DDs all the time without problem, but when our BB player is busy with work and cant play, we had a hard time with our substitute BB player, BB is unique in CW, thats why he is so important and irreplacible

again, i dont like the idea of limiting any class to 1 in CW, no 1CV, no 1BB, no 1CA, no 1 DD, id like to see at least 2 of every class in CW(well that pretty much rules out the possibility of CVs)

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6 minutes ago, OtterWolf said:

Matchmaking troubles aside, I still agree with WG reasoning the CVs would provide "unlimited spotting" ...  Basically, with Hakuryu's 8 squadrons, you could spot the whole map.

So what's the difference in ranked or clan battles ? both are the supposed end game , yet 1 class of ships is left out of the clan [edited] but not the other,,,, reasoning is flawed..

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CV is a ship that can carry every game.  Snipe the enemy CV, it all but over.

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3 minutes ago, khorender_1 said:

So what's the difference in ranked or clan battles ? both are the supposed end game , yet 1 class of ships is left out of the clan [edited] but not the other,,,, reasoning is flawed..

If you allow CV in CW, you basically forbid DDs to participate. 

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3 minutes ago, jason199506 said:

"equally skilled", thats the point, your clan NEED a skilled CV to do CW then.....if he have something in real life to deal with, your clan might as well be forbidden to CW until he is back , and i dont like this idea

As I've explained before, not really. Bad BB play will wreck your chances of winning just like bad CV play, or bad DD play if you rely on one. You're not seal clubbing as a CV when you're facing off against good players that know how to play against one and which ships to field. Sure, if you're facing a newbie clan your carrier will most likely have a high score, but you would have won regardless. If both teams are bad compared to the CV player then it just becomes like a random battle. 

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Just now, NeoRussia said:

As I've explained before, not really. Bad BB play will wreck your chances of winning just like bad CV play, or bad DD play if you rely on one. You're not seal clubbing as a CV when you're facing off against good players that know how to play against one and which ships to field. Sure, if you're facing a newbie clan your carrier will most likely have a high score, but you would have won regardless. If both teams are bad compared to the CV player then it just becomes like a random battle. 

thats exactly what i said in the last line of my reply you quoted....i dont like this idea, whether its cv or bb or ca or dd

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I cannot say I am unhappy about CV's being left out.  I like to run DD's so any game without a cv is a good deal for me.  How many decent tier 10 CV players are there in the game?  What would match wait times be if we do include them.  If a team has to use a rental CV with someone who is not a CV captain normally how lopsided does this make the match.  If it does make it so one sided does the MM then need to include CV captain skill/experience in the process.  A good CV captain can dominate an entire game.  A bad BB player, CA driver, or DD captain does not necessarily mean you will lose.  If you get a NOOB CV driver on your team and someone like ICHASE is driving the red team CV you are already toast.  I can understand why this might be in question on WG's part to look at this angle.  The being said this really sucks for those CV captains who put in the time to grind up to tier ten, rank out a 19 point captain, and outfit a CV to be told...yeah this is not for you......It is a dilemma that I am not sure how to fix.  Maybe require every clan who enters the clan battle to include on dedicated cv captain.  Who knows.  I am not as good at figuring this stuff out.  There are poepl more knowledgeable than me in this forum.

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20 minutes ago, Plaatduutsch said:

If you allow CV in CW, you basically forbid DDs to participate. 

And ? there's not a lot of [edited] when they are allowed into ranked, why is CB so freaking special, and I don't even play carriers yet it's beyond stupid to exclude them from one and NOT the other..

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51 minutes ago, Plaatduutsch said:

CV nullifies DDs. Plain and simple.

Not true. Radar cruisers make DD play far more conservative than what CVs bring. With no CVs, you can bring multiple Moskvas with their long range radar, and let EVERY cruiser bring Hydro to not be torped. If your team is any good and ship placement is also good, you could have unlimited hydro for groups of players for an entire game. 

Yes, a CV may be able to spot a DD, and spot their torps, but it is also the job of your CV to prevent him from spotting your DD, and to clear an area so that a DD can have torp lanes on enemy positions.

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Gonna have to agree with Swagger on this. Allowing CVs actually makes DDs stronger. 

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CVs might actually help DDs in CW.

Right now everyone just brings Moskva's and lights them up with Radar for huge spans of time. Ships like the Des Moines would also fair better by being good AA platforms to protect the fleet, instead of being asked to tank damage at times, which they're not good at.

This might also brings ships like Minotaur into play with it's God Tier AA range, and you'd actually see more strategy with ships being brought in as AA escorts and having actual choice with Skills since AA will actually matter.

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^this without CVs everything specs Anti DD makes for a more passive play-style. if you add cvs people have tp choose what to spec for. 

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