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Herr_Reitz

BOT carriers in coop - what's your opinion?

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Admittedly I haven't played coop for a good while... I generally only go there with new ships for some shakedown cruises. Today was my first match in coop where green and red carriers matched up. It wasn't much of a good experience. They seemed to go at each other rather than ships close to their team mates. IOW, carrier strikes are a thing with them - at least in my match. 

Those who have encountered these bot carriers on both teams - what's been your experience? Is it beneficial to have a bot carrier on each team?

Do you think they may be analyzing the results for perhaps future random battles with bot carriers taking the place of humans, so carriers are a thing? 

tiafyc

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I use Co-op a lot to practice CV play... Especially improving my manual torp drops.. Still haven't got it quite down.

I found it irritating that the bot CV goes for the snipe right away.. Hard to practice when you are looking over your shoulder for the snipe.

 

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I had no problems with carriers in co-op.  They seem to prioritize ships differently than a player would, but then bots do that with regular ships as well.  I don't see the need for carriers in co-op if a player doesn't bring one.  There are only 8 ship slots, so populate it with regular combat ships.  We want to shoot things.  In the end, you end up chasing down a bot CV for a couple of minutes to finish the game.  Its a time waster.

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14 minutes ago, Herr_Reitz said:

Admittedly I haven't played coop for a good while... I generally only go there with new ships for some shakedown cruises. Today was my first match in coop where green and red carriers matched up. It wasn't much of a good experience. They seemed to go at each other rather than ships close to their team mates. IOW, carrier strikes are a thing with them - at least in my match. 

Those who have encountered these bot carriers on both teams - what's been your experience? Is it beneficial to have a bot carrier on each team?

Do you think they may be analyzing the results for perhaps future random battles with bot carriers taking the place of humans, so carriers are a thing? 

tiafyc

It was an idea put forth by PVE mains to not always use so many DD when filling out a team if there aren't enough humans to do so. We now canget CV and Bb instead of Cl/CA occasionally and 5-7 DD all the time. I am all for it.

So far what I have seen is average to below average play from them. The red CV will always be better just like all the other types of ships. Friendly bots are usually not very god compared to the reds. Probably done on purpose to let the humans do more. With that said I have seen worse CV play from some humans.

Overall I think it is an improvement.

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My biggest issue is that I always have to square off against the same CV I’m playing.  In Randoms I’ve struggled with the Saipan and I want to get practice against Kagas and Hiryus... but that’ll never happen.

Otherwise I can’t say I’ve thought too much about it.

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I have no problem with populating with extra BBs and CA/CLs, or even DDs if needed to even out the ship distribution in a game.  I'm not sure adding a CV is the way to do it.  But, it does give co-op players more of a chance to experience a more rounded game experience.  At least with bot CV players on both sides, you are getting even play unlike with PvP CV players where one might be a real potato while the other might be a master.

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1 minute ago, Murcc said:

I had no problems with carriers in co-op.  They seem to prioritize ships differently than a player would, but then bots do that with regular ships as well.  I don't see the need for carriers in co-op if a player doesn't bring one.  There are only 8 ship slots, so populate it with regular combat ships.  We want to shoot things.  In the end, you end up chasing down a bot CV for a couple of minutes to finish the game.  Its a time waster.

Better chance of making it to end of game with different ship types, including CV, as bots than always using so many DD's. Friendly DD bots suck and die right off usually leaving you down a ton of ships and at least high tier can lead to a lot of losses. If the red CV focuses you it can be tough if not AA spec'd or no friendly AA near you but there are still other ships to shoot and heck bot CV's can give you 30-50K+ extra damage when you finally chase them down. I actually enjoy having the last red be the CV so I can go sink it and pay it back for the torps and bombs.

I disagree it is a time waster. It adds some diversity to the mode and you can do AA build ships now and actually get to us them more than once every 20 games. 

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5 minutes ago, Murcc said:

I have no problem with populating with extra BBs and CA/CLs, or even DDs if needed to even out the ship distribution in a game.  I'm not sure adding a CV is the way to do it.  But, it does give co-op players more of a chance to experience a more rounded game experience.  At least with bot CV players on both sides, you are getting even play unlike with PvP CV players where one might be a real potato while the other might be a master.

Actually not really. Friendly bots don't play as well as the red ones. That has carried over to CV's. I believe it is by design as said ^^^. Friendly CV will often just sail straight and not try and dodge torps or incoming rounds  while the red CV's dodge like Ninja masters. Red CV's will actually use their fighters to protect their planes and ships and a lot of times friendly CV's send them on a cruise around the map doing nothing and ignoring strike planes right near them. You can pretty much guarantee that if you have matching bot CV's in Co-op the red one will be a master and the green one will be a tater (comparably speaking of course). Same holds true for all the ships types. Red bots almost always better than friendly greens and by a pretty big margin.

Edited by AdmiralThunder

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You see green bot CVs more at night and early morning than during the day or evening I feel. I've only ran into a few bot CVs so far, but they are like any other bot ship on the human team. I like the idea as otherwise you might go awhile in a Cleveland in PvE, never seeing a CV. Most of my US ships have AA builds for when I play PvP. 

 

6 minutes ago, Murcc said:

I have no problem with populating with extra BBs and CA/CLs, or even DDs if needed to even out the ship distribution in a game.  I'm not sure adding a CV is the way to do it.  But, it does give co-op players more of a chance to experience a more rounded game experience.  At least with bot CV players on both sides, you are getting even play unlike with PvP CV players where one might be a real potato while the other might be a master.

 

1 minute ago, AdmiralThunder said:

Actually not really. Friendly bots don't play as well as the red ones. That has carried over to CV's. I believe it is by design as said ^^^. Friendly CV will often just sail straight and not try and dodge torps or incoming rounds  while the red CV's dodge like Ninja masters. Red CV's will actually use their fighters to protect their planes and ships and a lot of times friendly CV's send them on a cruise around the map doing nothing and ignoring strike planes right near them. You can pretty much guarantee that if you have matching bot CV's in Co-op the red one will be a master and the green one will be a tater (comparably speaking of course). Same holds tru for all the ships types. Red bots almost always better than friendly greens and by a pretty big margin.

 

I have not played as much high tier as AdmiralThunder, but at mid to lower tier, the green bots and red bots are fairly even overall. I have had some games where I had to race the green bots to sink red bots and have been on the other side where it's me and a bunch of bots as the other 7 green bots died quick.

 

I think adding green bot BBs and CVs was a good change. 

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I too have seen a drop off in green CV bot quality.  In ten games where we ended up with last two ships being red cv vs green cv, we always lost.  I know 10 games is too low a sampling but the green CV seemed to be more adrift than playing to win.

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Just played a random game in Iowa - there's no winning with her today - but our carrier TK''d a teammate... In this case a bot would have been far better. 

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9 minutes ago, galspanic said:

My biggest issue is that I always have to square off against the same CV I’m playing.  In Randoms I’ve struggled with the Saipan and I want to get practice against Kagas and Hiryus... but that’ll never happen.

Otherwise I can’t say I’ve thought too much about it.

One of the things PVE mains advocated for in the recent improve PVE threads that I think helped contribute to the recent changes to the mode was non matching ships all the time (ie; a NY vs a Kongo now and then vs always NY vs NY) so there was more variety. Keep it the same ship type (ie; a BB for a BB) and the same tier but vary which ship used for a few of the slots.That change did not happen as we kept mirror teams.

However, there were 2 exceptions we offered up. 1 was to keep the varying ships coming from the standard tech tree. No premiums. You wouldn't want the greens getting a Yorck and the reds a Belfast or an Izumo for the greens and a Missouri for the reds type of scenarios. The other was for CV's to always mirror as there is such a huge disparity between the good and bad ones. If the reds got the better CV, coupled with their better play, it would be a huge issue. But as said, mirror teams was kept so it didn't matter.

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I really only play co-op when I get a new CV and want to run it through its paces. Bot planes aren't exactly ellusive, so they get strafed down too quickly to know who they were going to attack. As far as what ships I attack, anything with torpedoes headed towards a player is first, so they don't get yolo torped. Then it's whatever isn't being slaughtered by a player.

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30 minutes ago, AdmiralThunder said:

Overall I think it is an improvement.

Yeah I have to agree with the Admiral, BUT I wish there would not always a mirror type for all ship types - i.e. if you bring a Kongo, you could face any Tier 5 BB.

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Bot cvs on green side is a bit of a problem.  See the bots don't mind shooting/dropping torps through you to get to the reds.  Kinda sucks having to watch 360 for torps all match while in with a bot cv.

 

Plus the fact that bot cvs don't seem to be able to kill each other.   I have had multiple draws the last couple of days with ships locked up in a match for 20min while the 2 cv proceed to NOT kill each other. 

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56 minutes ago, galspanic said:

My biggest issue is that I always have to square off against the same CV I’m playing.  In Randoms I’ve struggled with the Saipan and I want to get practice against Kagas and Hiryus... but that’ll never happen.

Otherwise I can’t say I’ve thought too much about it.

This is where the training room comes in, give the bot team the CV of your choice.

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Not so bad I think. The more the merrier. Just need to be alot careful now when approaching enemy ships because the bot CV has a tendency to cause team kills (not to mention kill stealings).

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2 hours ago, Murbid said:

Plus the fact that bot cvs don't seem to be able to kill each other.   I have had multiple draws the last couple of days with ships locked up in a match for 20min while the 2 cv proceed to NOT kill each other. 

Yeah but I have had two Kolbergs do that last week, both where stuck behind the same island for the next 8 minutes one would pull forward then back up. Then the other one would due the same.

And guess it blocked LOS because they did not fire on each other, just back and forth, back and forth.:cap_haloween:

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I played a game in coop the other day, and the red cv slaughtered us. Came down to both cv's left alive, and the game ended in a draw! Never thought I'd see that!

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3 hours ago, OtterWolf said:

I use Co-op a lot to practice CV play... Especially improving my manual torp drops.. Still haven't got it quite down.

I found it irritating that the bot CV goes for the snipe right away.. Hard to practice when you are looking over your shoulder for the snipe.

If there's bot CV snipe coming towards you, you can see it coming from half way across the map because a bot CV makes zero attempts at hiding its intentions. If you don't see it coming, it just means you aren't using your planes properly to scout and gather information. 

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I love it, I play mostly co-op and drives US cruisers (currently a Baltimore).  Now that bots on both sides can show up with CVs, planes are everywhere for me to gun down.  :Smile_teethhappy:

With the Baltimore, I've found that sometimes I can blast through a flank protected only by DDs and CAs (usually no match for a Baltimore with its monstrous AP shells and high rate of fire) and quickly sink the red bot CV.  The red bot CV can't do much against a AA spec'd Baltimore, it'll try to send more and more planes at you which you gleefully gun down.  Once you have done that, your friendly bot CV will start to "wake up" and do well.

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6 minutes ago, bigbearbeear said:

I love it, I play mostly co-op and drives US cruisers (currently a Baltimore).  Now that bots on both sides can show up with CVs, planes are everywhere for me to gun down.  :Smile_teethhappy:

With the Baltimore, I've found that sometimes I can blast through a flank protected only by DDs and CAs (usually no match for a Baltimore with its monstrous AP shells and high rate of fire) and quickly sink the red bot CV.  The red bot CV can't do much against a AA spec'd Baltimore, it'll try to send more and more planes at you which you gleefully gun down.  Once you have done that, your friendly bot CV will start to "wake up" and do well.

 

I just got the Baltimore, so I have not played it much. But I noticed that bot CVs will sometimes avoid my AA Texas like the plague. Other times the bot CV will try it's best to sink me and it's a firework show. :)

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ALL my CV play is in Co-Op. I rather enjoy auto-drop, but I don't leave it full auto. I manage the drop with that little arrow thingy right up to the last minute. Some of these dang bots know to sail in a circle to avoid torps, especially Cruisers and BBs.
DDs ALWAYS put maximum effort at dodging torp drops, but 2 hits usually gets the job done. Back when there were multiple loadouts for CVs, bots ALWAYS used the maximum number of fighters available. Now, only the Saipan bots use a fighter-priority loadout. Anyone foolish enough to take an anti-ship loadout in a Saipan quickly learns how they can be down to zero planes rather quickly.

I haven't played with a lot of bot CVs on my team because i don't play late at night. But I am glad to see the DDs being reduced and CVs and BBs increased. Makes for a more interesting mix. 

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Fine with it, adds variety.  Pretty easy to avoid the AI auto-drops or at least draw it out so more planes get shot down by one's AA and less torps / bombs hit you.

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Finally had a bot CV during daytime play yesterday. Get ready for NO air cover whatsoever. I don't think the bot CV even knows how to use fighters. They seemed to just fly around the map nowhere near enemy planes or our shops. Meantime, the opposing red bot CV was decimating our ships with torps and dive bombers that never seemed to miss. A couple of times I had to stop myself from screaming at our bot CV in chat. If he was a human CV, the team would have quickly sent some rounds into him. But that is a waste of ammo in a bot. I would rather have suicidal bot DDs than any of these bot CVs. 

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