"Easing" into the strafe at tier V when matched against tier VI carriers...

[_ENO_]

I got wedged into another tier V / VI CV match today while I was in my Bogue and it got me wondering... If you allowed tier V CVs that get put into a tier VI CV battle (obviously during 4 CV battles) the ability to strafe (but not manual drop) it would really help to ease the pain of moving into tier VI carriers where you need to know how to do both or get slaughtered like a pint at happy hour. The reason I say "not manual drop" is because it's a step- one thing at a time. 

The way I've felt about low tier CVs is they exist to provide the new player with an opportunity to learn the new spacial / situational awareness- spending more time driving the minimap than the tactical map with point and click RNG murder / death / kill fighters and basic autodrop functions. If at tier V we had limited opportunities to use the strafe against an actual player (as opposed to bots that don't strafe) it would be a great step towards being able to gain competency so that by the time you've ended up in tier VI all you need to get used to is the manual drop (which you can actually practice a little more usefully in COOP if you've got the time to waste on that sort of nonsense.) Allowing the manual drop may really offset the difference in newer CV players... so I'm thinking that starting with the strafe option and then graduating to the manual drop in tier VI would be a beneficial option. 

Thoughts? 

[Lert]

While I agree with your reasoning and applaud your effort in posting this idea, I personally am going to have to vote against it. Reason being that IMO - and this is just that, my personal opinion - a ship and its weapons (including planes) should always behave the same, regardless of tiering / circumstances.

+1 for the idea though, and I am curious what other people say.

[_ENO_]

9 minutes ago, Lert said:

While I agree with your reasoning and applaud your effort in posting this idea, I personally am going to have to vote against it. Reason being that IMO - and this is just that, my personal opinion - a ship and its weapons (including planes) should always behave the same, regardless of tiering / circumstances.

+1 for the idea though, and I am curious what other people say.

YEAH?! Well... 

I liked your old signature better- So there. 

(victory is mine)

[Destroyer_KuroshioKai]

They never should have put the alt attack limitation on CVs in the first place.  Part of the reason is getting pulled into higher tier CV fights leaves the low tier CV crippled.

You have to learn it at some point to be successful, why not at right at the start?

[xalmgrey]

I'm still new to using a CV, could you guys break down what strafing is? How is it different than not having it for lower tiers?

[_ENO_]

There’s a lot to learn about the interface when you get into it at tier 4. And tier 5, to me, is a natural transitional tier to start introducing a skill that has less impact on the overall gameplay. Sure a Unicum seal clubbing in a 5 carrier in a tier 6 match will murder all your planes but s/he will still be somewhat limited in the impact that can have from the auto drop. 

Thats the idea anyway. 

[_ENO_]

Just now, xalmgrey said:

I'm still new to using a CV, could you guys break down what strafing is? How is it different than not having it for lower tiers?

Strafing is auto drop for fighters. You can basically set a lane for your fighters to follow, and when they enter it they all fire ridiculous amounts of ammo and murder everything if it doesn’t evade. 

Like manual drop allows tighter patterns dropped at closer range- only for fighters. Caveat is that sometimes you missdrop or overshoot a strafe. 

[Lert]

6 minutes ago, Gascan75 said:

Strafing is auto drop for fighters. You can basically set a lane for your fighters to follow, and when they enter it they all fire ridiculous amounts of ammo and murder everything if it doesn’t evade. 

Like manual drop allows tighter patterns dropped at closer range- only for fighters. Caveat is that sometimes you missdrop or overshoot a strafe. 

^

This.

If you've ever lost 2 strike squadrons in a single go from one pass from a fighter squadron, you got strafed.

[alexbond45]

7 minutes ago, xalmgrey said:

I'm still new to using a CV, could you guys break down what strafing is? How is it different than not having it for lower tiers?

Strafing is the alt attack for a fighter, instead of just tagging ("locking up") a fighter by clicking on them, you can have them go in a straight line and destroy everything in their path, this consumes much more ammo though.

This makes them much better at destroying enemy strike craft and also more effective at attacking enemy fighters in general. In addition, if your fighter is locked up you can destroy a plane in your fighter squadron and strafe out of the dogfight.

 

[_ENO_]

At the expense of a fighter unless you’re in a Saipan if memory serves. 

[alexbond45]

5 minutes ago, Gascan75 said:

At the expense of a fighter unless you’re in a Saipan if memory serves. 

Indeed, the Saipan does not lose a fighter for exit strafing and that actually *is* something for new Tier VI drivers to know since it's possible to face a Saipan in a double CV battle. 

[Lert]

7 minutes ago, Gascan75 said:

At the expense of a fighter unless you’re in a Saipan if memory serves. 

That's a different mechanic. You can use the strafe mechanic to get out of a locked dogfight, at the expense of one fighter unless you're Saipan.

[xalmgrey]

Thanks for the explanation.

[Edgecase]

I agree that they need to rethink the "no manual attacks" decision for strafing in particular. If they wanted to soften it somewhat, they could simply make low-tier strafes prohibitively expensive or lower the damage multiplier so they're less effective.

What they do need to add regardless is a visual indicator that tells you when strafing is happening, like a less gaudy version of a boss attack indicator in some MMOs. The poor UI is to blame for a substantial amount of the confusion.

24 minutes ago, Lert said:

You can use the strafe mechanic to get out of a locked dogfight, at the expense of one fighter unless you're Saipan.

That mechanic is even worse. Strafe-outs are only good against low- and mid-skill players. Strafing out against a good player is a guaranteed loss of the whole squadron for free.

[HazeGrayUnderway]

Tier V CVs facing off against VI CVs is a lost cause for the lower tiered CV.  You're fighting with both of your hands tied behind your back.

[_ENO_]

I forgot one of the carriers I was up against a couple days ago was a 6 until one of my squadrons evaporated... Some aircraft are tier 6 while others are tier 4... if the tier 6 carrier hasn't updated his fighters then you might think it's the tier V carrier- but the tier V carrier is updated and has higher tier planes. 

I can't recall offhand which carriers have which tier of aircraft but I do know that seeing the tier of aircraft doesn't really help you figure out which one comes from which carrier. 

[cometguy]

They need to put manual attacks back in, and adjust aerial torpedo and bomb strength by tier, just like everyone else's torp/shell damage changes from tier to tier.

[Kevs02Accord]

10 hours ago, Edgecase said:

That mechanic is even worse. Strafe-outs are only good against low- and mid-skill players. Strafing out against a good player is a guaranteed loss of the whole squadron for free.

How so? In the sense the enemy CV will counter strafe wiping your fighters out? Don't you think this is a valid tactic, especially when IJN vs USN, where you will often have 2 IJN fighters to 1 USN, you strafe one squad in and another out at just the right time and his planes are frozen for a few seconds?

[APA_204]

they also need to put in checks so that the 700 game Essex captain at 32% can't keep wrecking high tier games.

[Edgecase]

3 minutes ago, Kevs02Accord said:

How so? In the sense the enemy CV will counter strafe wiping your fighters out? Don't you think this is a valid tactic, especially when IJN vs USN, where you will often have 2 IJN fighters to 1 USN, you strafe one squad in and another out at just the right time and his planes are frozen for a few seconds?

No, because CV players who know how will just follow-strafe you out using the group that most people think is frozen. It's not.

[GrimmeReaper]

1 hour ago, cometguy said:

They need to put manual attacks back in, and adjust aerial torpedo and bomb strength by tier, just like everyone else's torp/shell damage changes from tier to tier.

I agree to a point, T4 CVs (where you learn your map awareness and learn to understand how to do the auto drops to maximum benefit) should not see T5 CVs for starters, that way at T5 you add one of the Alt Commands preferably Strafe, which makes T5 CVs at least able to somewhat go up against a T6 CV when paired with a T6 CV.  Then at T6 Manual Drops are added for DBs and TBDs.

[_ENO_]

6 hours ago, gcangel82 said:

I agree to a point, T4 CVs (where you learn your map awareness and learn to understand how to do the auto drops to maximum benefit) should not see T5 CVs for starters, that way at T5 you add one of the Alt Commands preferably Strafe, which makes T5 CVs at least able to somewhat go up against a T6 CV when paired with a T6 CV.  Then at T6 Manual Drops are added for DBs and TBDs.

I'm reasonably okay with being in a T4 CV and seeing a T5- since we're similarly limited in terms of the auto attack / drop functions. It forces engagements over friendly ships which they don't always like at the beginning of a match but if it all works out then you get rid of the enemy fighters early and you can focus on defending your ships once they've spread out a bit more. 

The idea of the T5 would be that the manual strafe would be switched off when you were against a T4 or other T5s... but those few times you ended up against a T6 you would have that feature unlocked. That way it's unpredictable enough to discourage the seal clubbing that resulted in the auto drop only being implemented in low tiers in the first place. 

[Spartias]

Return strafe and manual drop to all tiers. Otherwise the population of CV's that are bad at those mechanics will continue to grow... they'll complain... and we'll end up with a gutted CV playstyle after a while.

[GrimmeReaper]

1 hour ago, Gascan75 said:

I'm reasonably okay with being in a T4 CV and seeing a T5- since we're similarly limited in terms of the auto attack / drop functions. It forces engagements over friendly ships which they don't always like at the beginning of a match but if it all works out then you get rid of the enemy fighters early and you can focus on defending your ships once they've spread out a bit more. 

The idea of the T5 would be that the manual strafe would be switched off when you were against a T4 or other T5s... but those few times you ended up against a T6 you would have that feature unlocked. That way it's unpredictable enough to discourage the seal clubbing that resulted in the auto drop only being implemented in low tiers in the first place. 

What about possibly just turning it off it is a mixed match with T4s and T5s.  Therefore letting T5 CVs learn the mechanic when just facing a T5 or 2 T5s.

[RogueShadow]

What WG needs to do, is remove the ability for a tier 5 CV to end up in a match with a tier 6 CV when double CV games happen.