Jump to content
You need to play a total of 5 battles to post in this section.
nhf

BB gun damage to everything non-BB is making game increasingly less enjoyable

280 comments in this topic

Recommended Posts

105
[PWH]
Members
242 posts

Start rant.  The power creep in BB guns has made playing CAs unfun more than not, and the BB power creep has now effected DDs too.  You can't WASD, you can't angle, you can't kite- any BB shell from any angle can often hit you for 50-80% HP loss in a single salvo from the range of most CA guns, and all DD guns.  Regardless what WOW or others (i.e. BB players) may acknowledge, BB guns do more damage per salvo more and more to CAs and DDs.  I know WOW needs to keep BBs happy because they are the most expensive ships to play (i.e. WOW's "cash cows"), but a game that devolves to only having BBs will be the end of the game for all.  End rant.

 

Update: It’s been a real issue for quite a while, longer than I realized actually, that IMO WOW has minimal incentive to fix because it keeps BBs happy.

 

Edited by nhf
  • Cool 6
  • Funny 2
  • Boring 2
  • Bad 21
  • Angry 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4,591
[SALVO]
Members
16,632 posts
17,300 battles

Well, no (bleep) Sherlock!  Battleships have MUCH bigger guns than non-battleships!!!  You think that 8" gunned heavy cruisers are going to do the same damage as BATTLESHIPS????  :Smile_facepalm:

Of course, battleship guns do more damage than smaller ships' smaller guns!     DUH!!!!

 

 

  • Cool 3
  • Funny 4
  • Bad 4
  • Angry 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
406
[R-F]
Members
676 posts
6,188 battles

In a destroyer, I'm not afraid of any battleship that doesn't rhyme with "shissouri". 

In a cruiser, yeah, I feel your pain.

Kind of how it's supposed to be, isn't it? Rock Paper Scissors?

  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
666
[UDEAD]
[UDEAD]
Beta Testers
1,026 posts
10,214 battles

I was in a tier 10 match on Monday that was 22 BB's and 2 CV's - it was just fine, BB's were capping, doing long range and close quarter damage, the whole gamut.  No one missed the cruisers or DD's at all.  So nope, as much as an anomaly as it was ( the only time I have seen that ), it was just fine.  In fact, it was so much nicer than the 5 DD, 4 cruiser 3 BB matches I normally see, because at least the bad players in BB's didn't die in the first 4 minutes by yoloing into an ambush and leaving the team down by 4 ships and a near impossible fight for the win.

Bad DD players die early to every kind of ship, even from BB's fire.  Good DD players are rarely seen until it's too late, and when they are seen, it's only briefly before they disappear behind cover or smoke.  If you can read between the lines, I think we can discount BB fire as the source of your survivability problems.

  • Cool 6
  • Bad 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Members
1,666 posts
9,743 battles
1 minute ago, Crucis said:

Well, no (bleep) Sherlock!  Battleships have MUCH bigger guns than non-battleships!!!  You think that 8" gunned heavy cruisers are going to do the same damage as BATTLESHIPS????  :Smile_facepalm:

Of course, battleship guns do more damage than smaller ships' smaller guns!     DUH!!!!

 

 

There are known issues with BB AP.  Specifically against DDs where it is common to blap a DD from ranges from over 12km.  Just took such a hit for 18k in my Shima from 13km away from a Missouri tonight in fact.  Obviously I was overconfident from outside my Shima's torp range.  Personally I think that needs to be looked at, because it leaves little chance for a DD to mitigate damage from a class they supposedly counter.  Go broadside eat several over pens (which I dont have an issue with) or angle and risk one or two shells doing full pen or pen and an over pens worth of damage.

At the very least there is a long known issue of shells penning multiple compartments of ships and giving odd damage figures like an overpen and a pens worth of damage on a single shell.

 

  • Cool 4
  • Bad 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
666
[UDEAD]
[UDEAD]
Beta Testers
1,026 posts
10,214 battles
1 minute ago, Destroyer_KuroshioKai said:

There are known issues with BB AP.  Specifically against DDs where it is common to blap a DD from ranges from over 12km.  Just took such a hit for 18k in my Shima from 13km away from a Missouri tonight in fact.  Obviously I was overconfident from outside my Shima's torp range.  Personally I think that needs to be looked at, because it leaves little chance for a DD to mitigate damage from a class they supposedly counter.  Go broadside eat several over pens (which I dont have an issue with) or angle and risk one or two shells doing full pen or pen and an over pens worth of damage.

At the very least there is a long known issue of shells penning multiple compartments of ships and giving odd damage figures like an overpen and a pens worth of damage on a single shell.

 

That being said, I think HE splash damage from 16"-18" shells is more of a recurring threat to high tier DD's than AP.  I am certainly not going to fire multiple volleys of AP at a DD when there are more logical targets available.  Obviously the Khab has issues with AP due to it's width, but most other AP issues come from bow on or stern on shots having enough time to arm while still inside the ship, something that seems reasonable.

  • Cool 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
105
[PWH]
Members
242 posts
6 minutes ago, BiggieD61 said:

...  If you can read between the lines, I think we can discount BB fire as the source of your survivability problems.

It's always the same song from BB players who benefit buff after buff to BBs, whether the buff is to the BB or via a nerf of another class.  Regardless, with a >60% win rate in this season of Ranked I'd say I'm getting by with my "skill" level.  I have however mostly stopped playing CAs because they're just not fun anymore more often than not.  And, that's annoying to have wasted all that time and money (training captains) to have WOW just crap on CAs again and again.  The smoke nerf the latest iteration, which crapped on the entire British CA line.  Do a single thing to nerf anything BB to any capacity and all heck breaks loose.  I digress.

  • Cool 1
  • Boring 2
  • Bad 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Members
1,666 posts
9,743 battles
7 minutes ago, BiggieD61 said:

I was in a tier 10 match on Monday that was 22 BB's and 2 CV's - it was just fine, BB's were capping, doing long range and close quarter damage, the whole gamut.  No one missed the cruisers or DD's at all.  So nope, as much as an anomaly as it was ( the only time I have seen that ), it was just fine.  In fact, it was so much nicer than the 5 DD, 4 cruiser 3 BB matches I normally see, because at least the bad players in BB's didn't die in the first 4 minutes by yoloing into an ambush and leaving the team down by 4 ships and a near impossible fight for the win.

Bad DD players die early to every kind of ship, even from BB's fire.  Good DD players are rarely seen until it's too late, and when they are seen, it's only briefly before they disappear behind cover or smoke.  If you can read between the lines, I think we can discount BB fire as the source of your survivability problems.

[edited].

I play DD competitively at the highest levels this server has.  BB AP far and away is the single largest threat a DD faces.  I have seen so many DDs smashed for more than half their HP from 15km plus I couldnt begin to count them.  Get radar detected at 10km and a DM or Moskva shoots you, you get chucked for 25-40% of your HP if you cant get safe.  A BB shoots you and you have the distinct possibility of losing more than half your HP in that volley.

Before some monkey breathing through their [edited] babbles on about big gunzzzz and other such non sense history is full of cases where lightly armored ships just had a hole blasted through them with little damage.  And then there is the fact this is a video game and not reality.

  • Cool 4
  • Bad 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
105
[PWH]
Members
242 posts
9 minutes ago, Destroyer_KuroshioKai said:

There are known issues with BB AP.  Specifically against DDs where it is common to blap a DD from ranges from over 12km.  Just took such a hit for 18k in my Shima from 13km away from a Missouri tonight in fact.  Obviously I was overconfident from outside my Shima's torp range.  Personally I think that needs to be looked at, because it leaves little chance for a DD to mitigate damage from a class they supposedly counter.  Go broadside eat several over pens (which I dont have an issue with) or angle and risk one or two shells doing full pen or pen and an over pens worth of damage.

At the very least there is a long known issue of shells penning multiple compartments of ships and giving odd damage figures like an overpen and a pens worth of damage on a single shell.

 

^This.

 

If it was an issue that negatively impacted BBs it would be fixed by now.  BBs benefit so it's not.

Edited by nhf
  • Cool 1
  • Bad 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
105
[PWH]
Members
242 posts
2 minutes ago, Destroyer_KuroshioKai said:

I play DD competitively at the highest levels this server has.  BB AP far and away is the single largest threat a DD faces.  I have seen so many DDs smashed for more than half their HP from 15km plus I couldnt begin to count them.  Get radar detected at 10km and a DM or Moskva shoots you, you get chucked for 25-40% of your HP if you cant get safe.  A BB shoots you and you have the distinct possibility of losing more than half your HP in that volley.

Before some monkey breathing through their [edited] babbles on about big gunzzzz and other such non sense history is full of cases where lightly armored ships just had a hole blasted through them with little damage.  And then there is the fact this is a video game and not reality.

^Again, this.  I play up to T10 DDs.  BB AP damage is worse now than ever, noticeably.  But, now WOW is backed into a corner to "nerf" BBs (i.e. the "golden geese") to fix the problem.  I don't see it happening.

Edited by nhf
  • Bad 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
666
[UDEAD]
[UDEAD]
Beta Testers
1,026 posts
10,214 battles
Just now, nhf said:

It's always the same song from BB players who benefit buff after buff to BBs, whether the buff is to the BB or via a nerf of another class.  Regardless, with a >60% win rate in this season of Ranked I'd say I'm getting by with my "skill" level.  I have however mostly stopped playing CAs because they're just not fun anymore more often than not.  And, that's annoying to have wasted all that time and money (training captains) to have WOW just crap on CAs again and again.  The smoke nerf the latest iteration, which crapped on the entire British CA line.  Do a single thing to nerf anything BB to any capacity and all heck breaks loose.  I digress.

I play all classes and my statement stands, the best DD players are not getting punished every match by BB AP, radar or plane spotting is a more consistent threat and it has nothing to do with standard BB play.

  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Members
1,666 posts
9,743 battles
5 minutes ago, BiggieD61 said:

That being said, I think HE splash damage from 16"-18" shells is more of a recurring threat to high tier DD's than AP.  I am certainly not going to fire multiple volleys of AP at a DD when there are more logical targets available.  Obviously the Khab has issues with AP due to it's width, but most other AP issues come from bow on or stern on shots having enough time to arm while still inside the ship, something that seems reasonable.

If a BB has loaded HE to shoot at a DD he should be rewarded.  As it stands now AP should almost always be shot at DDs due to the mechanics I spoke of earlier.

Khaba's issue BTW is a special case, its not really the width but the 50mm armor over much of the ship that enables it to shrug off 203mm HE hits.  AP should definitely be a special case here if alone for balance reasons.

Edited by Destroyer_KuroshioKai
  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
105
[PWH]
Members
242 posts
11 minutes ago, BiggieD61 said:

I play all classes and my statement stands, the best DD players are not getting punished every match by BB AP, radar or plane spotting is a more consistent threat and it has nothing to do with standard BB play.

This is simply not true.  The planes and/or radar may do the spotting, or an enemy DD, and BB AP takes off 50-80% per salvo from >15km at any angle.  I've noticed savvy BB players have adjusted and now target DDs more and more.

Edited by nhf
  • Bad 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3,056
[GWG]
[GWG]
Alpha Tester, In AlfaTesters
15,205 posts
8,798 battles
8 minutes ago, Destroyer_KuroshioKai said:

There are known issues with BB AP.  Specifically against DDs where it is common to blap a DD from ranges from over 12km.  Just took such a hit for 18k in my Shima from 13km away from a Missouri tonight in fact.  Obviously I was overconfident from outside my Shima's torp range.  Personally I think that needs to be looked at, because it leaves little chance for a DD to mitigate damage from a class they supposedly counter.  Go broadside eat several over pens (which I dont have an issue with) or angle and risk one or two shells doing full pen or pen and an over pens worth of damage.

At the very least there is a long known issue of shells penning multiple compartments of ships and giving odd damage figures like an overpen and a pens worth of damage on a single shell.

 

The overpen is on the first armor contacted so an overpen can cause devastating damage if it hits other things while rattling around inside a ship while a standard pen can cause little if any damage. Also assuming good aiming by the BB it is all RNG from that point because the target is so small even sailing in a straight line hitting a DD is an exercise in frustration.

  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4,591
[SALVO]
Members
16,632 posts
17,300 battles
4 minutes ago, nhf said:

It's always the same song from BB players who benefit buff after buff to BBs, whether the buff is to the BB or via a nerf of another class.  Regardless, with a >60% win rate in this season of Ranked I'd say I'm getting by with my "skill" level.  I have however mostly stopped playing CAs because they're just not fun anymore more often than not.  And, that's annoying to have wasted all that time and money (training captains) to have WOW just crap on CAs again and again.  The smoke nerf the latest iteration, which crapped on the entire British CA line.  Do a single thing to nerf anything BB to any capacity and all heck breaks loose.  I digress.

You assume that anyone who disagrees with you must be a BB player, or perhaps a BB main.  You assume  wrongly.

I play BBs, but they're only my third most played type.  I play DD's the most, followed by crusiers, and then BBs.  And ya know something?  I don't go around whining about BB damage when I  happen to be playing a DD or CA and I get smacked hard.  If I get smacked hard, one of two things happened.  Either RNG turned a badly aimed shot into a hit, which isn't a particularly common thing.  Or the other guy just plain outguessed me and predicted my movements and scored some hits.  Trust me, when I'm playing cruisers, I'm far from an easy target.  I can bob and weave with the best of them.  And if you score some good hard hits on me in a cruiser, I figure that you earned them or RNG was on your side.  Either way, I don't throw a hissy fit over it.

 

As for the smoke nerf crapping on the entire RN CL line, good.  While I play them (I'm on the Edinborough right now), I hate the entire meta of the line.  And anything that drives them out of the smoke and forces them to play line proper cruisers, i.e. fire and maneuvering, is fine by me.

  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4,591
[SALVO]
Members
16,632 posts
17,300 battles
10 minutes ago, Destroyer_KuroshioKai said:

[edited].

I play DD competitively at the highest levels this server has.  BB AP far and away is the single largest threat a DD faces.  I have seen so many DDs smashed for more than half their HP from 15km plus I couldnt begin to count them.  Get radar detected at 10km and a DM or Moskva shoots you, you get chucked for 25-40% of your HP if you cant get safe.  A BB shoots you and you have the distinct possibility of losing more than half your HP in that volley.

Before some monkey breathing through their [edited] babbles on about big gunzzzz and other such non sense history is full of cases where lightly armored ships just had a hole blasted through them with little damage.  And then there is the fact this is a video game and not reality.

They're already in the game.  They're called overpens.

  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Members
1,666 posts
9,743 battles
6 minutes ago, BiggieD61 said:

I play all classes and my statement stands, the best DD players are not getting punished every match by BB AP, radar or plane spotting is a more consistent threat and it has nothing to do with standard BB play.

You are speaking of what removes a DDs armor, namely its concealment.

We are discussing what is more effective at actually damaging the ships.  Its plain as day that BB AP puts a hurting on DDs much faster than its counter class.

  • Bad 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1,088
[SIM]
Members
2,443 posts
4,080 battles

Get gud. Seriously, improve your skillset.

  • Cool 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4,591
[SALVO]
Members
16,632 posts
17,300 battles
7 minutes ago, nhf said:

This is simply not true.  The planes and/or radar do the spotting and BB AP takes of 50-80% per salvo from >15km at any angle.  I've noticed savvy BB players have adjusted and now target DDs more and more.

Horse pucky!!!  I've never lost 80% of my HP in a DD in a single volley, unless it was a detonation, and then it's 100% of however many HP I had at that moment.

About the only time I come close to getting nuked in a DD is when I'm a bit too close and some cruiser or BB nails me with multiple HE shells.  And this only happens at ranges under 10 km where their accuracy gets better.

  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Members
1,666 posts
9,743 battles
4 minutes ago, BrushWolf said:

The overpen is on the first armor contacted so an overpen can cause devastating damage if it hits other things while rattling around inside a ship while a standard pen can cause little if any damage. Also assuming good aiming by the BB it is all RNG from that point because the target is so small even sailing in a straight line hitting a DD is an exercise in frustration.

Its called double dipping.  Either the shell is an over pen detonating outside the ship or a pen and detonating inside.  Having both slams low HP vessels like DDs and low tier CA.  The people that drive them, that is an exercise in frustration.

Regarding hitting DDs at range, talk to the BB mains in the top Typhoon 1 clans.  I know my guys smash DDs I find for them with disturbing regularity.  Its some kind of voodoo, I cant do it, but I watch them every day doing it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Members
1,666 posts
9,743 battles
5 minutes ago, Crucis said:

They're already in the game.  They're called overpens.

Very good. 

Now go back and read my point, which is at the very least one shell "overpenning" but doing damage of an overpen and a pen at the same time.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Members
956 posts
11,173 battles
5 minutes ago, Crucis said:

Horse pucky!!!  I've never lost 80% of my HP in a DD in a single volley, unless it was a detonation, and then it's 100% of however many HP I had at that moment.

About the only time I come close to getting nuked in a DD is when I'm a bit too close and some cruiser or BB nails me with multiple HE shells.  And this only happens at ranges under 10 km where their accuracy gets better.

Yeah no, you can 100% wipe a DD from the map in one volley from a Montana up to 12km fairly easy.  15km rare but not impossible.  Also AP is better.

Edited by MountainManxDan
  • Cool 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1,461
[AXANR]
Members
3,361 posts
16,547 battles
30 minutes ago, Brhinosaurus said:

In a destroyer, I'm not afraid of any battleship that doesn't rhyme with "shissouri". 

You should be afraid of BBs that rhyme with Shonqueror, Schlion, or Shling Sorge V too. I play aggressive with my British BBs, and I love smacking DDs with a salvo of 419mm HE shells. So. Much. Salt. 

  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Members
1,666 posts
9,743 battles
4 minutes ago, Crucis said:

Horse pucky!!!  I've never lost 80% of my HP in a DD in a single volley, unless it was a detonation, and then it's 100% of however many HP I had at that moment.

About the only time I come close to getting nuked in a DD is when I'm a bit too close and some cruiser or BB nails me with multiple HE shells.  And this only happens at ranges under 10 km where their accuracy gets better.

Either you do not play much DD, or you are lying, I dont care which to be honest.

I know of what I speak from first hand experience and seeing it daily with the BB mains in my divs and competitive matches.

  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×