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mikebiang

I now understand why noone plays CVs at T6+

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Every time I step out in my Independence there is an incredible amount of negativity directed toward my gameplay, especially when I am placed in a T8 battle.   I understand that my CV play probably isn't perfect, but come on, it just seems like everyone's negativity is directed toward the CV.   It's brutal.   As if playing a tier 6 CV in a tier 8 matchup isn't enough, I have to deal with the chat ripping on my gameplay, using profanity, and in general saying how terrible I am at this game.    Maybe I am terrible, but come one the negativity doesn't help.   We are on the same team - let's be constructive.  END RANT.

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1 minute ago, mikebiang said:

Every time I step out in my Independence there is an incredible amount of negativity directed toward my gameplay, especially when I am placed in a T8 battle.   I understand that my CV play probably isn't perfect, but come on, it just seems like everyone's negativity is directed toward the CV.   It's brutal.   As if playing a tier 6 CV in a tier 8 matchup isn't enough, I have to deal with the chat ripping on my gameplay, using profanity, and in general saying how terrible I am at this game.    Maybe I am terrible, but come one the negativity doesn't help.   We are on the same team - let's be constructive.  END RANT.

aye matey this be the life of lvling up your cv ships

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3 minutes ago, mikebiang said:

Every time I step out in my Independence there is an incredible amount of negativity directed toward my gameplay, especially when I am placed in a T8 battle.   I understand that my CV play probably isn't perfect, but come on, it just seems like everyone's negativity is directed toward the CV.   It's brutal.   As if playing a tier 6 CV in a tier 8 matchup isn't enough, I have to deal with the chat ripping on my gameplay, using profanity, and in general saying how terrible I am at this game.    Maybe I am terrible, but come one the negativity doesn't help.   We are on the same team - let's be constructive.  END RANT.

Because as a CV you have disproportional impact in any match. Your team depends on you to perform. If you cannot do your role then you make other 11 people suffer with you. Yes, it's a game you can play however you want. But it is a TEAM based game, where you are with 11 other people, not to mention 12 opponents. Your performance in a match matters to the other 23 people. You have the right to play as you see fit, but you have no right to make other people suffer doing so.

 

Also most people stop playing CV pass a certain tier when they realize their win rate is 30% and they simply cannot play a CV well. It's not due to their thin skins and low self esteem resulting from criticisms.

Edited by NeutralState
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Last time I played a CV (a long, long time ago in an ocean far, far away), it was a tier IV Langley in a co-op battle. I did okay, but it didn't stop some moron telling me how bad my game play was.

Since my favorite ship is the Atlanta, I love to see carriers in battles. So, I am sorry you and fellow CV captains get the abuse they do.

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Keep at it and get better.  People don't get good in a ship by taking a few bruises and backing off.  They work on it and improve.  Seriously, if you show at least decent competency as a CV, they got nothing to say.  Yes, there will be that 1 guy every now and then that will complain despite you having Clear Sky and carry the team, but if you did your job the crowd will be silent about your contribution at the very least.

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ignore them, at tier 6 you won't be able to use manual drops with torpedoes and diver bombers. Worry about that at tier 7+

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3 minutes ago, NeutralState said:

Because as a CV you have disproportional impact in any match. Your team depends on you to perform. If you cannot do your role then you make other 11 people suffer with you. Yes, it's a game you can play however you want. But it is a TEAM based game, where you are with 11 other people, not to mention 12 opponents. Your performance in a match matters to the other 23 people. You have the right to play as you see fit, but you have no right to make other people suffer doing so.

The OP is actually average in his Independence. So he doesn't need to apologize for playing her.

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The harsh criticism never goes away. 99.99% of it comes from people who are completely terrible and without a clue. The people with a clue are usually too busy kicking butt to gripe.

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im in a BB, one friendly BB sucked, i try to deal/tank twice the damage for a normal BB, i could still carry

im in a cruiser, one friendly cruiser sucked, i try to do twice the job of a normal cruiser, i could still carry

im in a DD, one friendly DD sucked, i try to spot/torp/gun twice the amount of a normal DD, i could still carry

one friendly CV sucked when im in any other ship? hands off keyboard, theres nothing i can do to carry.....

 

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Last time I played a CV.. oh boy... I bought a Saipan just so I can level a 19 point CV captain. Did that when the first of Captain XP came in the game, have not played it but a couple of times.   Stopped at the Lexington. 

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3 minutes ago, jason199506 said:

im in a BB, one friendly BB sucked, i try to deal/tank twice the damage for a normal BB, i could still carry

im in a cruiser, one friendly cruiser sucked, i try to do twice the job of a normal cruiser, i could still carry

im in a DD, one friendly DD sucked, i try to spot/torp/gun twice the amount of a normal DD, i could still carry

one friendly CV sucked when im in any other ship? hands off keyboard, theres nothing i can do to carry.....

 

That feeling, the horrible feeling of can't do crap, is probably the most enraging thing about the CV design in game as a whole. There needs to be a redesign for CVs to force CV player to interact with others in game in a more "meaningful" way. 

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Just now, NeutralState said:

That feeling, the horrible feeling of can't do crap, is probably the most enraging thing about the CV design in game as a whole. There needs to be a redesign for CVs to force CV player to interact with others in game in a more "meaningful" way. 

Shim game last night, the enemy CV cross torp me, T9 IJN, (can't think of how its spelled).  Turned into them took one torpedo, leaving me with under 1000 hit points.  The game eventually ended being the CV, me and another BB against, CV, Henry.   Enemy CV deleted the BB, me with now 150 hps, someone on my team, yells don't die...  I said something like Impossible, with CV DB.  As all this was unfolding, the friendly cv took his only fighter to chase the Enemy DB off on the other side of the map....  ugh.  Hate CVS sometimes.

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11 minutes ago, NeutralState said:

Because as a CV you have disproportional impact in any match. Your team depends on you to perform. If you cannot do your role then you make other 11 people suffer with you. Yes, it's a game you can play however you want. But it is a TEAM based game, where you are with 11 other people, not to mention 12 opponents. Your performance in a match matters to the other 23 people. You have the right to play as you see fit, but you have no right to make other people suffer doing so.

 

I appreciate this.  I realize it is my responsibility to deter inbound air strikes, but honestly there is only so much the CV can do.  Anytime someone gets hit be a torpedo drop or a dive bomber drop, it's automatically the CVs fault.   Doesn't matter that they YOLOed out away from everyone else going who know where.

Other than that though, maybe I'm just missing the expectations of the CVs role especially at higher tiers.   I want to learn - I'd appreciate any enlightenment..

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11 minutes ago, Coyote720 said:

The OP is actually average in his Independence. So he doesn't need to apologize for playing her.

Thanks for this.

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21 minutes ago, MajorRenegade said:

ignore them, at tier 6 you won't be able to use manual drops with torpedoes and diver bombers. Worry about that at tier 7+

I thought only tiers 4 and 5 couldn't use manual drops? Am I wrong AGAIN!!

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3 minutes ago, Umikami said:
25 minutes ago, MajorRenegade said:

ignore them, at tier 6 you won't be able to use manual drops with torpedoes and diver bombers. Worry about that at tier 7+

I thought only tiers 4 and 5 couldn't use manual drops? Am I wrong AGAIN!!

Not sure what he's talking about - I can manual drop and strafe in my T6.

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29 minutes ago, Coyote720 said:

Since my favorite ship is the Atlanta, I love to see carriers in battles. So, I am sorry you and fellow CV captains get the abuse they do.

Agreed!  

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1 minute ago, mikebiang said:

Agreed!  

Nah play hakaryu then watch the salt stream in when your team relizes you have the AS package

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13 minutes ago, Nachoo31 said:

T9 IJN, (can't think of how its spelled). 

Yugumo, good ship.

12 minutes ago, mikebiang said:

Other than that though, maybe I'm just missing the expectations of the CVs role especially at higher tiers.

Things I hate for a red CV player to do. (DD main speaking)

1). Search out anyone "lone-wolfing" their way towards the reds rear areas, and then keeping them spotted until focus fire wrecks them.

2). Eliminating enemy scouts first, depriving us of our eyes and stealth capping abilities.

3). Concentrate air power on the lower tier heavies and cruisers, eliminating their guns from our focus totals.

4). All cross-dropping; it's almost impossible to avoid and deadly to smaller ships with shallow HP pools.

Good luck learning to play your CV, and I sincerely hope you never eliminate me from a match.

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It's because the CV is the Jesus Nut of the team. If it doesn't do its job then it just doesn't matter what the other 11 people do, there is no compensating for it like in other ship types. Some would say that is a flaw with the CV mechanics.

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30 minutes ago, mikebiang said:

Every time I step out in my Independence there is an incredible amount of negativity directed toward my gameplay, especially when I am placed in a T8 battle.   I understand that my CV play probably isn't perfect, but come on, it just seems like everyone's negativity is directed toward the CV.   It's brutal.   As if playing a tier 6 CV in a tier 8 matchup isn't enough, I have to deal with the chat ripping on my gameplay, using profanity, and in general saying how terrible I am at this game.    Maybe I am terrible, but come one the negativity doesn't help.   We are on the same team - let's be constructive.  END RANT.

Well, Tier 6 is where carrier game play becomes significantly more difficult and it's a pretty steep learning curve. 

At T5 and below, you have a lot of things to keep track of but the aircraft handling is reasonably straight forward.  Pick your targets, set up your attack angles (modifying them for unexpected course changes by the target).   Fighters engage other aircraft if a fairly simple click on target and let the fighter do their thing. 

At T6, all of this changes.   While you can use auto drops for torpedo and dive bombers, your opponent may will have mastered manual drops (which are not available for T5 or lower CV aircraft) which makes torpedo attacks far more effective.  Dive Bombers have manual drops as well and fighters can now strafe and knock entire squadrons from the air in a single pass. 

Unfortunately,  working with T5 and T4 carriers does not prepare you for this environment.  While you can play a CV with the tools you are used to in these lower tier carriers, you will be fighting at a significant disadvantage vs a red CV commander who has mastered these more advanced skills. 

My best advice is to take your Independence into Co-op and learn these skills against the robots rather than against other human players.   When you feel you have learned them all, then make the transition back into Random. 

Hope that's helpful.

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You haven't made it to the Ranger yet, the worst performing ship in the game by winrate at 45.92% for the last 2 weeks. You can really expect to hear the hate when your team sees you queued up against a Saipan (58.31%) or a Kaga (60.42%).  So until WG actually balances CV play to make it less punishing for non-unicums you can expect to keep hearing the rage.

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The Independence-class placement at tier 6 with 37-plane hangar when it historically has maximum complement of 45 was the beginning of the long chain of US carrier nerfs...the Saipan (40 stock, 48 upgraded) used to be in the tier 6 of the tech tree before WG thinks that a Baltimore-class based hull shouldn't be in tier 6...and moved Independence up while letting its contemporary has the same 48-plane hangar as its predecessor... while leaving the poor thing with the same 37-plane hangar as tier 5...because Zuiho cannot exceed 30 planes, it had to go.

It's the last obstacle that stands between you and the fleet carrier tier of 7, where the true carrier battle begins...and even in those tiers the AA problem doesn't entirely go away, only that you have three full waves to spend as opposed to one and a half of the Independence.

It's not your fault...the Independence is in a very awkward place with +/-2 tier MM...

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It's been stated over and over already, but it's the truth. Carriers have entirely too much pull on the outcome of the game. It is only countered by the enemy carrier. BBs can't charge in like crazy because DDs will torp them to death. Cruisers can't charge in like crazy because BBs will one shot them. DDs are countered by radars and hydros and other DDs that specialize in killing DDs. The only counter to the carrier is the other carrier. So if the skill of the two aren't balanced, that throws the match HEAVILY in one direction.

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