GC OP - nah, no way

[Herr_Reitz]

If I can manage this imagine what the really good players can do with this ship. I read somewhere, once, folks were calling her OP... overpowered... well... in the right circumstances I suppose you could call her that... but she's just about the perfect BB currently in the game, imho... she's great fun to play. 

Spoiler

 

Look at the premium column. We cheapskates don't play premium... but looking at those premium numbers... it sure indicates a whole lot of reasons why you probably should if you have a real commitment to The Grind... 

So if you are wanting a premium BB for fun now and future assists in grinding later... the GC is one heckuva ship, highly recommended. 

[Ie_Shima]

I left the game for about 6-7 months, came back and had the Giulio Cesare and the De Grasse in my harbor.  Didn't buy them, they weren't given to me by a friend, I have no idea how I got them.  Doesn't mean I don't play them though.  

The Cesare is an okay tier 5, but I still prefer the Kongo.  

[talbs]

Thank you

[Lert]

25 minutes ago, Herr_Reitz said:

I read somewhere, once, folks were calling her OP... overpowered... well... in the right circumstances I suppose you could call her that...

This is undeniable and beyond doubt. She's OP.

[SomeRandomDonkey]

Yeah, she is OP. She has good speed, good guns, good maneuverability in a tier where most BBs are either slow turds or straight-line speed demons that take forever and a day to turn.

 

[Crucis]

7 minutes ago, Lert said:

This is undeniable and beyond doubt. She's OP.

The thing with the CG is that she's a ship with a mildly unusual history.  Commissioned in 1914, IIRC, she would seem like a perfect tier 5, if you look at her WW1 era stats.  Ten 12" guns, 21 kt speed.

But then she was decommissioned in 1928, only to be put through a serious reconstruction between 1933-1937, where IIRC, she got new boilers which increased her speed to 27 kts and got her 12" guns bored out to 12.6".  So, now she's got two 12.6" guns and a max speed of 27 kts, which can seem a bit strong for tier 5, though if you compare her to the Kongo, those stats aren't as outlandish as one might think.  Of course, I assume that the Kongo's soft gun stats aren't as good as those of the CG, which is probably the biggest reason the CG feels OP.  (Yes, the Kongo has 2 less guns, but they're 14" guns rather than 12" or 12.6".)

 

Also, I'm not so sure that the CG would be quite so viable at tier 6 as one might think, largely due to having 12.6" guns and having to face tier 8 ships with up to 16" guns.  I think that she's probably at the right tier, but her guns are a bit too accurate.

 

OTOH....  I have to admit that I'm getting a bit frustrated with all the newer premium BBs being released with spotty, inconsistent accuracy.  Maybe it's just me, but I kind of wish that all BBs had a level of accuracy that felt more consistent, because it just feels to me that the more inconsistent a BBs guns are, the more it feels like RNG controls your fate and not your own ability to aim.

 

[Crucis]

11 minutes ago, Balaams_Donkey said:

Yeah, she is OP. She has good speed, good guns, good maneuverability in a tier where most BBs are either slow turds or straight-line speed demons that take forever and a day to turn.

 

Like I wrote above, the CG is unique in that she received a major reconstruction in the mid-1930's that none of these other similar tier BB received.  IIRC, the closest thing to a major refit any of the tier 5 BBs got were the Kongo's.  And they were already fast and already had 14" guns.

And from a historical perspective, the US Navy would have liked to do some refits on their WW1 era BBs during the 1930's (the Colorado's in particular, IIRC).  But due to limited resources because of the great depression, they had a choice between doing such refits or building some new BBs.  They opted for the new BBs.

Of course, I suppose if WG wanted to ignore history, they could apply a fictional reconstruction to some of these ships, like the NY class BBs.  Such a fictional refit might cause them to have their "upgraded" engines be their stock engines, and the upgraded engines give the NY's a speed buff up to, for example, around 24-25 kts.  

Anyways, what we see in the CG is a good example (and a historical one) of what a major reconstruction could have done to other similar era battleships, given that the CG was a 21 kt BB when it was first commissioned.

 

 

[SomeRandomDonkey]

 

9 minutes ago, Crucis said:

Like I wrote above, the CG is unique in that she received a major reconstruction in the mid-1930's that none of these other similar tier BB received.  IIRC, the closest thing to a major refit any of the tier 5 BBs got were the Kongo's.  And they were already fast and already had 14" guns.

And from a historical perspective, the US Navy would have liked to do some refits on their WW1 era BBs during the 1930's (the Colorado's in particular, IIRC).  But due to limited resources because of the great depression, they had a choice between doing such refits or building some new BBs.  They opted for the new BBs.

Of course, I suppose if WG wanted to ignore history, they could apply a fictional reconstruction to some of these ships, like the NY class BBs.  Such a fictional refit might cause them to have their "upgraded" engines be their stock engines, and the upgraded engines give the NY's a speed buff up to, for example, around 24-25 kts.  

Anyways, what we see in the CG is a good example (and a historical one) of what a major reconstruction could have done to other similar era battleships, given that the CG was a 21 kt BB when it was first commissioned.

 

 

I would have no problem with WG "ignoring history" and giving those ships hypothetical upgrades. Heck, they threw that whole "historical" thing out when the German BBs came out (I'm looking at you Kaiser, Konig, and Bayern).

I think the best solution is exactly what you said, give the other ships some upgrades in the form of buffs that make them more competitive. I just don't want to see GC consigned to the ever growing "banned" list of ships.

[Doomlock]

33 minutes ago, Crucis said:

The thing with the CG is that she's a ship with a mildly unusual history.  Commissioned in 1914, IIRC, she would seem like a perfect tier 5, if you look at her WW1 era stats.  Ten 12" guns, 21 kt speed.

But then she was decommissioned in 1928, only to be put through a serious reconstruction between 1933-1937, where IIRC, she got new boilers which increased her speed to 27 kts and got her 12" guns bored out to 12.6".  So, now she's got two 12.6" guns and a max speed of 27 kts, which can seem a bit strong for tier 5, though if you compare her to the Kongo, those stats aren't as outlandish as one might think.  Of course, I assume that the Kongo's soft gun stats aren't as good as those of the CG, which is probably the biggest reason the CG feels OP.  (Yes, the Kongo has 2 less guns, but they're 14" guns rather than 12" or 12.6".)

The biggest changes that happened to her were the removal of her middle triple turret (she had 13 x 12" guns), the complete redesign of her superstructure, speed increase to 27 knots, and a better secondary armament.

[Herr_Reitz]

30 minutes ago, Doomlock said:

The biggest changes that happened to her were the removal of her middle triple turret (she had 13 x 12" guns), the complete redesign of her superstructure, speed increase to 27 knots, and a better secondary armament.

Tha's a whole lot of work to be sure... a whole lot of work... almost like ripping the walls and such off your home, removing some walls, adding new walls... lot of work. Especially back during those years. 

She does play in a very consistent manner. Everything she does - in my opinion - she does well. The biggest concern you usually have is encountering a red GC. 

But as she stands today - she's a definite "buy". 

[Trash_Taste_In_Waifus]

10 minutes ago, Herr_Reitz said:

Tha's a whole lot of work to be sure... a whole lot of work... almost like ripping the walls and such off your home, removing some walls, adding new walls... lot of work. Especially back during those years. 

She does play in a very consistent manner. Everything she does - in my opinion - she does well. The biggest concern you usually have is encountering a red GC. 

But as she stands today - she's a definite "buy". 

hell she goes up against my nikolai quite well.

[NoCoGaming3645]

The two major things that make the GC OP is the excessively accurate guns, and her ridiculously low concealment range.

At a tier where NOTHING has decent dispersion, GC's is cruiser-like. And the "stealth BB" is just so stupid.

[Istilian]

I have great (for me) stats in her, but a terrible win rate.  I think I need to be a little more aggressive.  She's a beast against those poor tier 4 ships..

[AdmiralThunder]

I always find it amusing when people call ships OP. I have yet to see one that really is that. To me OP is so good it is god like and while we have some very good ships to earn/buy, and they are much better than others, I am not sure I have seen an OP one yet.  Kutuzov might be the closest I have seen to the total package but it still has weaknesses.

Yamato's guns for example are OP but it has weaknesses that keep the ship from being OP.  GC's guns may be accurate and it may have good stealth but it has flaws that keep it from being OP on the whole IMO.

GC is a very good T5 BB. Might even be the best T5 BB in the game. I don't find it OP however. Just good. Good, even really good, is not OP.

[Helstrem]

7 hours ago, Crucis said:

Of course, I suppose if WG wanted to ignore history, they could apply a fictional reconstruction to some of these ships, like the NY class BBs.  Such a fictional refit might cause them to have their "upgraded" engines be their stock engines, and the upgraded engines give the NY's a speed buff up to, for example, around 24-25 kts.  

Anyways, what we see in the CG is a good example (and a historical one) of what a major reconstruction could have done to other similar era battleships, given that the CG was a 21 kt BB when it was first commissioned.

 

7 hours ago, Balaams_Donkey said:

I would have no problem with WG "ignoring history" and giving those ships hypothetical upgrades. Heck, they threw that whole "historical" thing out when the German BBs came out (I'm looking at you Kaiser, Konig, and Bayern).

I think the best solution is exactly what you said, give the other ships some upgrades in the form of buffs that make them more competitive. I just don't want to see GC consigned to the ever growing "banned" list of ships.

The problem is that, while easy to do programmingwise, such an upgrade would be complete fiction in that it wasn't possible no matter how much money the US Navy spent on it because of fundamental limitations of how the engine spaces of the Standard Type BBs were laid out.  There simply isn't a way for the speed on those ships to be increased without delving way past fiction and into fantasy.

53 minutes ago, AdmiralThunder said:

I always find it amusing when people call ships OP. I have yet to see one that really is that. To me OP is so good it is god like and while we have some very good ships to earn/buy, and they are much better than others, I am not sure I have seen an OP one yet.  Kutuzov might be the closest I have seen to the total package but it still has weaknesses.

Yamato's guns for example are OP but it has weaknesses that keep the ship from being OP.  GC's guns may be accurate and it may have good stealth but it has flaws that keep it from being OP on the whole IMO.

GC is a very good T5 BB. Might even be the best T5 BB in the game. I don't find it OP however. Just good. Good, even really good, is not OP.

Just depends on what win rate a person thinks is acceptable and where the OP line is.  55%?  60%? 70%?  No ship will have a 100%.  For a lot of people Giulio Cesare passes the win rate marking OP.  IIRC it has a win rate of over 57%.  That is well off where it ought to be if it were remotely balanced, and it gets well more than enough games for us to know the win rate is not a statistical anomaly.

[Herr_Reitz]

If I'm still at these numbers after a hundred battles, for me, she's a tad OP.  Or rather, I'm in the sweet spot for my skill level. 

[Stauffenberg44]

You forgot to mention she is BE-AU-TI-FUL.

As a footnote I am a long-time BMW motorcycle rider (Beemer) And I always loved looking at Motto-Guzzi V-twins.... just I'm a tall guy and not a good fit.

Giulio Cesare is my Motto Guzzi fantasy, 'nuff said. Fits fine!

[BreakingForce]

On 1/24/2018 at 10:31 AM, Ie_Shima said:

I left the game for about 6-7 months, came back and had the Giulio Cesare and the De Grasse in my harbor.  Didn't buy them, they weren't given to me by a friend, I have no idea how I got them.  Doesn't mean I don't play them though.  

The Cesare is an okay tier 5, but I still prefer the Kongo.  

 

did you get one of these in your e-mail?  if so, that's where they came from

[Ie_Shima]

3 hours ago, BreakingForce said:

 

did you get one of these in your e-mail?  if so, that's where they came from

I've blocked emails from WG after I got spammed for a solid two weeks about in game deals.  If I was emailed that, I didn't see it.