Cossack is OverPowered!

[anonym_Hf93Jbjm9WjT]

After watching Youtube reviews and reading forum opinions, which are mostly negative and critical, I felt it time to check out the vital WIP statistics of this upcoming tier7 premium destroyer, HMS Cossack, one of the Tribal class using our WOWS Wiki as a source. This post is based upon a reply I made to @NoZoupForYou topic of his excellent video review, but which I feel, to balance, we need to present the other side of the story, to let the statistics, as they are as of today, speak...

All stats taken from wows wiki, here http://wiki.wargaming.net/en/Ship:Cossack.

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guns :

Looking at the guns, she has by a very wide margin, the longest range (11.83 km) of her tier. Minsk comes second at 11.08. Reload time at 5 seconds isn't too bad either, (Mahan tops the table at 4 secs).

concealment : 

6.84 km is the second BEST in her tier, GM comes second with 7.02, Shirayatsu comes first with 6.66km/.

So we have excellent range for the guns coupled to excellent concealment values.

torpedoes :

The torpedos at 61 km are reasonably fast with a convenient range of 8.01 km. This puts Cossack among the best of her tier for speed/range/dmg (15887). She also benefits from single fire mode, which is very useful for cross firing, corner sniping and other advanced torpedo tactics that are only available to RN dds.

summary !

Good concealment values = decent survivability, and more opportunities to deal dmg.

Cossack has the second best HP pool of her tier, too with 14800, only Błyskawica has more hp at 15500. Compare to Akatsuki which has a miserable 11 600 hp!

Cossack has the BEST rudder shift time of her tier, 3.6 seconds, coupled to a reasonable turning circle (610), giving her excellent manouvreability (very useful if you have to show a 45 degree broadside to fire all guns, but also useful for kiting and dodging torps/inc volleys)

summary !

Large hp pool + excellent manouvreability = good survivability when under fire

(is she in fact, sekretly, overpowered?)

Spoiler

(I won't lie, the purpose of this post is to find all that there is positive to say about Cossack, and I thought it would be hard to find nice things to say...) Of course, everything about Cossack is subject to change, everything we know is conditional, based upon CC feedback and opinion, and WOWS wiki data.

 

[Warped_1]

After the PA DDs gave us a peek at her little sister, can't wait to see her.

[MrDeaf]

You are forgetting Shiratsuyu that has 6.6km

[anonym_Hf93Jbjm9WjT]

1 minute ago, MrDeaf said:

You are forgetting Shiratsuyu that has 6.6km

I stand corrected! Being my infamously inaccurate self, as usual  (I will update the post)

[kerensky914]

Best range is no help if the gun arcs go over the moon like Gallant's do. As for torpedoes, did you happen to see how many tubes she has...?

[vak_]

8 minutes ago, nuttybiscuit said:

6.84 km is the second BEST in her tier

Good concealment values

  Reveal hidden contents

(I won't lie, the purpose of this post is to find all that there is positive to say about Cossack, and I thought it would be hard to find nice things to say...) Of coruse, everything about Cossack is subject to change, everything we know is conditional, based upon CC feedback and opinion, and WOWS wiki data.

 

 

I wouldn't call 6.8 concealment good.

[anonym_Hf93Jbjm9WjT]

10 minutes ago, kerensky914 said:

Best range is no help if the gun arcs go over the moon like Gallant's do. As for torpedoes, did you happen to see how many tubes she has...?

4? If you can single fire and put them all on target, what would you need more for? While as for firing arc, if they are the over the moon type, they would be very useful, coupled with the excellent range, for firing over natural obstacles such as islands..

[anonym_Hf93Jbjm9WjT]

Just now, vak_ said:

 

I wouldn't call 6.8 concealment good.

2nd best of her tier, without modules or captain skills.

[Doomlock]

23 minutes ago, Warped_1 said:

After the PA DDs gave us a peek at her little sister, can't wait to see her.

Gadjah Mada is an N-class destroyer, a successor to the Tribal class destroyers, of which, Cossack is one of.

[GreyFox78659]

Ok but where is the UK DD line?

[anonym_Hf93Jbjm9WjT]

5 minutes ago, GreyFox78659 said:

Ok but where is the UK DD line?

Probably waiting for an opportunity to monetize it, our desire for a RN dd line, driving premium sales. What's new? At the very least, this premium gives us an opportunity to see just what a RN dd line will/would look like, and what its playstyle might be. Oh, and errm, it kinda might cool interest in Haida, given the negative reaction to Cossack.

[GreyFox78659]

From what I understand Cossack is Haida because the owners of Haida want royalties from WG.

[Komrade_Rylo]

Why would you take this over leningrad or blys?

[anonym_Hf93Jbjm9WjT]

Just now, GreyFox78659 said:

From what I understand Cossack is Haida because the owners of Haida want royalties from WG.

Haida wasn't the only RCN Tribal class destroyer, honestly I would discount that theory, for if there were a serious interest in introducing a Canadian dd into the game, where there is a will, there is a way.

[anonym_Hf93Jbjm9WjT]

5 minutes ago, Fog_Battleship_NCarolina said:

Why would you take this over leningrad or blys?

Because you might want a British captain trainer? Because you are a RN nut? because you like the name, you prefer the model? Because why not? (some of the vital stats, are notably superior to Leningrad and Blyz too.) Because tier7 dds are affordable, we can have them all? Why does anyone buy a premium? All sorts of reasons.

[KaptainKaybe]

Problem with Cossack seems to be that her cons far outweigh her pros.

Four torpedo tubes with just either single launch or wide angle launch is bad. Like really bad. There's no reason to not have a small angle launch like every other DD, and no one ever uses wide angle, even up close. And having both torpedoes and the aft gun have such poor firing angles doesn't help it either. So while it's very agile and stealthy, it doesn't have the armament to take advantage of it, being forced to sail very broadside to bring all her weapons to bear.

If you look at recent history, you'll remember the Kidd that traded half her torpedo armament for better anti-air. And that ship was grossly underpowered as tested. In the end, they needed to add Repair Party to her to make her competitive (perhaps excessively so ... that DD is amazing now). Seems to me Cossack is in a similar situation. Although I'm grateful they are ironing out the kinks with this Tribal before working on Haida ;)

[poeticmotion]

Honestly? A lot of ships look good going by stats alone, until you play them. Some ships look bad going by stats alone, until you play them.

There's really no reason to pull this out into a new thread just because no one was engaging your points in the other thread (for the most part) and while I will reserve judgment until I see it myself, if the entirety of the collective CCs think it's garbage, you posting a 'omg Cossack is overpowered' thread based solely on a few cherrypicked raw numbers is hilarious. 

[Fog_Repair_Ship_Akashi]

34 minutes ago, GreyFox78659 said:

From what I understand Cossack is Haida because the owners of Haida want royalties from WG.

Same class? Yes. Same ship? No. Cossack is probably being used as a platform to figure out how to balance the Tribal class. As @LittleWhiteMouse has said the whole Tribal class is hard to balance. So they are probably using Cossack to figure out a way to do so and after that they will release Haida. because if Wargaming screws Haida up and makes her 'Garbage'.......the Canadians will be making very sternly worded posts on the forum saying our displeasure. 

 

What?

 

We're Canadians, we don't riot. We sternly protest.

[poeticmotion]

Just now, Fog_Repair_Ship_Akashi said:

We're Canadians, we don't riot. We sternly protest.

But you also apologize for the inconvenience before, during, and after the protest. 

[Komrade_Rylo]

Just now, poeticmotion said:

Honestly? A lot of ships look good going by stats alone, until you play them. Some ships look bad going by stats alone, until you play them.

There's really no reason to pull this out into a new thread just because no one was engaging you in the other thread (spamming replies isn't the same as 'talking with someone' when you're being ignored) and while I reserve judgment until I see it myself, if the entirety of the collective CCs think it's garbage, you posting a 'omg Cossack is overpowered' thread based solely on a few cherrypicked raw numbers is hilarious. 

Which ships look bad going by stats yet perform well?

[Fog_Repair_Ship_Akashi]

Just now, poeticmotion said:

 Some ships look bad going by stats alone, until you play them.

-Cough-

-Cough-

[Fog_Repair_Ship_Akashi]

1 minute ago, poeticmotion said:

But you also apologize for the inconvenience before, during, and after the protest. 

Exactly.

[Fog_Repair_Ship_Akashi]

1 minute ago, Fog_Battleship_NCarolina said:

Which ships look bad going by stats yet perform well?

Look no further.

[anonym_Hf93Jbjm9WjT]

3 minutes ago, Fog_Repair_Ship_Akashi said:

So they are probably using Cossack to figure out a way to do so and after that they will release Haida.

Of course, you are quite right. 

[Mizzerys_Fate]

From all the CC videos, I can tell that I do not have enough skill to make her good.

But my wallet is begging me to buy it, and my OCD is urging me not to pass her up....