Jump to content
You need to play a total of 20 battles to post in this section.
NoZoupForYou

Cossack (Preview) is a Hard Pass - Let's Discuss how to Fix it.

98 comments in this topic

Recommended Posts

Members
1,695 posts
8,915 battles

It's out played by every DD in its tier.  It has slow loading torps and an atrocious firing angle.  It's a no buy as is.  That being said its still a WiP and subject to change.  So don't write her off completely.

Let's talk about how to make it better.  My suggestion, in my preview, is to shave 1 second off its reload and give it torp reload boost.

 

Edited by NoZoupForYou
  • Cool 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Beta Testers
2,855 posts
9,046 battles

I hope they don't overbuff it to be better than gotcha mother and Tribal class DDs but judging by Wargaming's reputation so far that is inevitable. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1,115
Alpha Tester
2,552 posts

IMO, crap now, buff later. Better safe than sorry. Wouldn't want another rare, unsellable ship.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Beta Testers
2,855 posts
9,046 battles
8 minutes ago, Wolcott said:

IMO, crap now, buff later. Better safe than sorry. Wouldn't want another rare, unsellable ship.

I don't think any premium is unsellable, in fact I can't think of any that are worse than tech tree ships of their tier. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
186
[RQL]
Beta Testers
718 posts
25,936 battles

I would agree @NoZoupForYou, from what I have seen there needs to be a fair amount of improvement for which I would add a slight rudder shift improvement time.  WG does have precedent for adding sub par ships - see HuangHe so maybe the improvements will not be as much as we hope.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Members
833 posts
12,757 battles

Novel idea, Harekaze treatment.

Give the Cossack two hull options:

Hull A is as stands and can gain something like TRB or a Heal, some sort of consumable to offset the bad angles and the lack of a turret compared to Hull B.

Hull B removes the secondary gun and gives the Cossack 4 turrets to utilise, without seeing how a 4 turret setup would go I can't really speculate if anything further would be necessary.

 

The Harekaze's hull options I feel was a nice concept that succeeded (I see Akizuki gun and US gun variants in games, I have no data to stand on but anecdotally it seems at least 2/3 hull variants are used), WG should use that more often. The added bonus is both are historical representing the ship at different times of the war.

  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Members
1,695 posts
8,915 battles
5 minutes ago, bat1159man said:

I would agree @NoZoupForYou, from what I have seen there needs to be a fair amount of improvement for which I would add a slight rudder shift improvement time.  WG does have precedent for adding sub par ships - see HuangHe so maybe the improvements will not be as much as we hope.

It seems like there is trouble finding a sweet spot with ships.  Either they are OP or not quite good enough...

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Beta Testers
1,180 posts
7,853 battles
22 minutes ago, NeoRussia said:

I don't think any premium is unsellable, in fact I can't think of any that are worse than tech tree ships of their tier. 

What about the DoY? Many consider it inferior to the KGV and it was sold (although also a reward ship).

Maybe the Cossack will be an earnable ship via Campaigns?

  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Members
1,695 posts
8,915 battles
Just now, KyourakuShunsui said:

What about the DoY? Many consider it inferior to the KGV and it was sold (although also a reward ship).

Maybe the Cossack will be an earnable ship via Campaigns?

That's another good point as we really don't know how these ships will reach us.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6,776
[SIM]
Members
6,307 posts
10,286 battles

The physical layout of the ship may be the biggest obstacle in balancing it. A ship with bad fire angles is never going to be objectively good, but could be selectively OP if they tune it too hard to compensate. Honestly, I hope that we don’t see this ship for a long time, at least until WG can put some fresh eyes and ideas on it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Members
1,695 posts
8,915 battles
4 minutes ago, Tpaktop2_1 said:

BTW - this is not the Tribal class F03 (1938) , but the C - Class R57 (1943).  A way different ship.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C-class_destroyer_(1943)

 

The C class only has one smoke stack.  This Cossack has two making it the Tribal variant.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMS_Cossack_(F03)

 

Edited by NoZoupForYou

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Members
7,122 posts
26,405 battles
27 minutes ago, NeoRussia said:

I don't think any premium is unsellable, in fact I can't think of any that are worse than tech tree ships of their tier. 

By almost all accounts the Duke of York is worse than its tech tree sister.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Beta Testers
2,855 posts
9,046 battles
1 minute ago, KyourakuShunsui said:

What about the DoY? Many consider it inferior to the KGV and it was sold (although also a reward ship).

Maybe the Cossack will be an earnable ship via Campaigns?

DoY would be closest to unsellable but it has its place. The improved AP, accuracy, and addition of hydrocoustics stands out over KGV. It may be slightly worse but I'd still play it over the non-RN T7 BBs. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6,776
[SIM]
Members
6,307 posts
10,286 battles
3 minutes ago, KyourakuShunsui said:

What about the DoY? Many consider it inferior to the KGV and it was sold (although also a reward ship).

Maybe the Cossack will be an earnable ship via Campaigns?

I bought Duke of York, people bought Oleg and Krasny Krym. No lemon gets by without having some fans. Wolcott’s point wasn’t about ships being too weak to sell, he was talking about ships like Nikolai and Belfast.

  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Members
1,695 posts
8,915 battles
7 minutes ago, SkaerKrow said:

I bought Duke of York, people bought Oleg and Krasny Krym. No lemon gets by without having some fans. Wolcott’s point wasn’t about ships being too weak to sell, he was talking about ships like Nikolai and Belfast.

Ships will always wind up in the hands of players, no matter how bad they are.  For some players, its not about how a ship performs but the ship in general.  This has always been true with the game, and will continue to remain true.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1,299
[VCRUZ]
Members
4,049 posts
9,180 battles

Nice video, bad ship :Smile-_tongue:,

 

I hope WG change change this ship. T7 has some good gun boats and Cossack is sure not one of them. 

 

And as you pointed, its fun to see all the CCs saying the same thing about this ship, they often give different points of view about ships, wich is nice so you can take your own conclusions. But all CCs are talking the exact same things about how bad this ship is.

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
186
[RQL]
Beta Testers
718 posts
25,936 battles
29 minutes ago, NoZoupForYou said:

The C class only has one smoke stack.  This Cossack has two making it the Tribal variant.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMS_Cossack_(F03)

 

I am grinding the Gadjah Mada which will be a competitor to the Cossack.  I am enjoying the GM and while not proficient in her yet, see the areas where the Cossack will be hard pressed to compete.  Just the firing angles of the rear cun make the GM much more flexible.  Would keep the Gm over buying the Cossack in its current form.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1,207
[TFK]
[TFK]
Alpha Tester
2,395 posts
24,502 battles
8 minutes ago, NoZoupForYou said:

The C class only has one smoke stack.  This Cossack has two making it the Tribal variant.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMS_Cossack_(F03)

 

 

Tribal Class (War modifications) Armament:
3 × 2 - QF 4.7-inch (120 mm) Mk XII guns
1 × 2 - QF 4-inch (102 mm) Mk. XVI dual-purpose guns
up to 4 × single and twin 20 mm Oerlikon AA guns

No Torpedoes

C-Class Armament:    

4 × QF 4.5-inch (113 mm) L/45 Mk IV guns on mounts CP Mk.V
2 × Bofors 40 mm L/60 guns on twin mount "Hazemeyer" Mk.IV;
4 × Single QF 2-pounder (40 mm) Mk.XVI guns
8 (2 × 4) tubes for 21-inch (533 mm) torpedoes Mk.IX
80 Depth charges[2]

Photo examples HMS Cossack (R57)

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/4a/HMS_Cossack_%28D57%29_in_heavy_seas_c1951.jpg

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/88/20/7f/88207f2ae4c8c742e6d99c88e1ddeb47.jpg

 

C-Class example of single stack showing HMS Childers (R91)
hmschilders.jpg

I think WG has the render and armament wrong for the ship.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4,168
[SYN]
[SYN]
Members
9,312 posts
18,887 battles

For those saying 'start weak, buff later'. Well, Huang Meh was garbage on first CC look and garbage on release...

  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Members
1,695 posts
8,915 battles
1 minute ago, Tpaktop2_1 said:

 

Tribal Class (War modifications) Armament:
3 × 2 - QF 4.7-inch (120 mm) Mk XII guns
1 × 2 - QF 4-inch (102 mm) Mk. XVI dual-purpose guns
up to 4 × single and twin 20 mm Oerlikon AA guns

No Torpedoes

C-Class Armament:    

4 × QF 4.5-inch (113 mm) L/45 Mk IV guns on mounts CP Mk.V
2 × Bofors 40 mm L/60 guns on twin mount "Hazemeyer" Mk.IV;
4 × Single QF 2-pounder (40 mm) Mk.XVI guns
8 (2 × 4) tubes for 21-inch (533 mm) torpedoes Mk.IX
80 Depth charges[2]

Photo examples HMS Cossack (R57)

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/4a/HMS_Cossack_(D57)_in_heavy_seas_c1951.jpg

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/88/20/7f/88207f2ae4c8c742e6d99c88e1ddeb47.jpg

 

C-Class example of single stack showing HMS Childers (R91)
hmschilders.jpg

I think WG has the render and armament wrong for the ship.

Interesting.  Thanks for the info!

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4,168
[SYN]
[SYN]
Members
9,312 posts
18,887 battles
1 minute ago, Tpaktop2_1 said:

I think WG has the render and armament wrong for the ship.

No, this Cossack is the Tribal: Cossack - 1938 (F03, later L03).

I have no idea what you're smoking.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1,207
[TFK]
[TFK]
Alpha Tester
2,395 posts
24,502 battles
1 minute ago, NoZoupForYou said:

Interesting.  Thanks for the info!

 

If I am wrong I am wrong, however renaming ships in navies makes things crazy in tracking the correct ship historically. It makes sense this is a tier 7 ship if it is from 1943.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×