Lost a BB Duel to an HE spammer...

[SakuyaSama7]

My Kongou against their Iron Duke. I had been firing AP all the time at his broadside, micro'd and timed my repairs and heals (one fire: heal, two fires: repair) enough that I ran out of heals. No citadels were ever made because LUL DISPERSION SAYS SUPERSTRUCTURE HITS.

Am I just bad or is this a case of bad RNG?

I'm pretty sure it's the former, but I'd like your thoughts anyway.

[Cobraclutch]

Ranges? 

[Edgecase]

Link a replay. Or better yet, send it to @Lord_Zath, because it's almost certainly going to be informative to look at and get comments on!

If you don't have the replay, I'd say the most likely thing that happened was you aimed too high or were shooting from too far away. Kongou's guns actually have somewhat poor vertical dispersion and penetration characteristics at very long ranges -- the fact that they can fire that far is a bit of a trap.

[Viva_Palestine]

Iron Duke is a tough nut.  And will use HE because that is its strength.  Plan accordingly,

[SakuyaSama7]

@Cobraclutch It's at 11KM.

@Edgecase I've attached the replay in question.

20180119_113052_PJSB007-Kongo-1942_17_NA_fault_line.wowsreplay

[Lert]

You engaged a battleship on his terms and reaped the sore bottom that goes with it. Also, when faced with such an opponent don't DCP single fires. He's just going to re-light them.

[Ivlerlin]

What was your engagement range? Your Kongo has a longer reach and speed. If it was possible to push the engagement range to near his maximum things might have been more in your favour. 

Aside from that Iron Duke has +1 Turret compared to Kongo. So in a Broadside exchange even with AP he's got more thrown back at you. Especially if your missing your shots and he's hit his mark. A slugging match isn't Kong's forte. 

Anyways, just something to thing about if your firing full salvos. If he's flinging HE at you, you can all throw a Mixer his way and HE them back during your salvo rotations. 

 

[warpath_33]

4 minutes ago, Lert said:

You engaged a battleship on his terms and reaped the sore bottom that goes with it. Also, when faced with such an opponent don't DCP single fires. He's just going to re-light them.

 

16 minutes ago, SakuyaSama7 said:

(one fire: heal, two fires: repair)

 

I personally prefer to just let a single fire burn and repair afterwards and use damage control just before a salvo hits to prevent fires from being set right after it wears off.

[VGLance]

25 minutes ago, SakuyaSama7 said:

My Kongou against their Iron Duke. I had been firing AP all the time at his broadside, micro'd and timed my repairs and heals (one fire: heal, two fires: repair) enough that I ran out of heals. No citadels were ever made because LUL DISPERSION SAYS SUPERSTRUCTURE HITS.

Am I just bad or is this a case of bad RNG?

I'm pretty sure it's the former, but I'd like your thoughts anyway.

Strike that, will review replay. 

[Dr_Powderfinger]

 

With Kongo you have a speed and range advantage, soften the Duke up from 18km before closing the distance if you have to. You get to dictate the terms of the engagement.

Also keep in mind when you are facing a HE spamming ship that it allows you to expose your own broadside while manuevering without fear of getting citadeled.

Both are effective BBs they just have different strengths.

...

[CaptainTeddybear]

20 minutes ago, SakuyaSama7 said:

My Kongou against their Iron Duke. I had been firing AP all the time at his broadside, micro'd and timed my repairs and heals (one fire: heal, two fires: repair) enough that I ran out of heals. No citadels were ever made because LUL DISPERSION SAYS SUPERSTRUCTURE HITS.

Am I just bad or is this a case of bad RNG?

I'm pretty sure it's the former, but I'd like your thoughts anyway.

 

You are both T5 BBs. Why are you assuming you should automatically win this? You didn't say you got stomped so I assume it was close. RN BB's use HE against other BBs so plan accordingly.

At long range go undetected while your damage con is on cooldown.

Don't fight at mid-range, this favors him heavily.

Short range favors you, get even closer where you can get lots of penetrations. His HE is going to penetrate at any range.

Fight at a range that favors AP. Or stay outside of your concealment range if you are more concerned about staying alive than killing him.

[Lord_Zath]

I've been summoned!

 

Would you like me to do a commentary video n it?  LMK!  

[Sturmkurz]

 

33 minutes ago, SakuyaSama7 said:

My Kongou against their Iron Duke. I had been firing AP all the time at his broadside, micro'd and timed my repairs and heals (one fire: heal, two fires: repair) enough that I ran out of heals. No citadels were ever made because LUL DISPERSION SAYS SUPERSTRUCTURE HITS.

Am I just bad or is this a case of bad RNG?

I'm pretty sure it's the former, but I'd like your thoughts anyway.

British BBs have very strong He, and due to their AP being unreliable and sometimes struggle against fighting enemy BBs, they're going to use HE a good majority of the time.

 

Like everyone else stated, don't fight on his terms. If you're going to engage a British BB, plan to. You out-range him, and are quicker.

[Balck_]

You have range, AP and speed on him.  He has armor and HE on you.  Stay just outside his range and just ahead in speed (3/4 on Kongo should be plenty) and have your way with him.  If he turns away, you follow and keep range.

[MaxL_1023]

You won't beat an Iron Duke 1v1 in a Kongo without a significant skill edge. The ID has more firepower, better HE, a less vulnerable citadel (by far) and I believe thicker belt armor, causing shatters at shallower angles and closer ranges. 

You have gun range and speed, but that is about it. Unless someone is spotting for you (so you can kite at max range) the ID will beat you in a straight-up slugfest. 

Kongo is more of a Battlecruiser - it was never meant to slug it out with a Dreadnought Battleship. They OUTRUN what they can't OUTFIGHT.

[STINKWEED_]

1 hour ago, Chuck_Wiggles said:

You have range, AP and speed on him.  He has armor and HE on you.  Stay just outside his range and just ahead in speed (3/4 on Kongo should be plenty) and have your way with him.  If he turns away, you follow and keep range.

That won't work because Iron Duke has much better concealment. If you fire from your max range and he can't fire back, he'll just disappear and go elsewhere to fight. 

The only chance you have is to use your strengths ( I have both ships). Kongo is a brawler. You need to fight at close range while angled. The downside is that Iron Duke doesn't have to play by your rules. If he's an experienced player he'll stay mid range.

Kongo used to be my favorite tier 5 BB. Iron Duke now wears that crown. I stopped playing Kongo. 

 

[Fiona_Marshe]

UK BBs are aiming to MISS the citadel... as they want to avoid the armor belt.  If you pay attention, they all shoot at the bow, as its often the largest unarmoured section of the ship (to avoid saturation of the superstructure... that cruisers are spamming with HE at the same time.) 

 

Anything that doesn't hit the belt is a Penetration for 33%.  10 shells @ 33% (usually 60% hits at under 12km) = lose fight.  Other ships need to use AP to keep up and are thus reliant on hitting and penetrating the armour belt (RNG applies).

[TurboT]

As Lert pointed out, my guess is you failed with your consumable heals and repair first off.  Key to battleship survival is not using the repair party unless multiple fires or flood.  Remember fire damage heals back so let a bunch burn down and then heal it.   It’s great if you can time it so one is always active over the other.  I never leave port without the premium repair and heal mainly for speed of recovery and extra heal. 

[IronMike11B4O]

8 minutes ago, TurboT said:

As Lert pointed out, my guess is you failed with your consumable heals and repair first off.  Key to battleship survival is not using the repair party unless multiple fires or flood.  Remember fire damage heals back so let a bunch burn down and then heal it.   It’s great if you can time it so one is always active over the other.  I never leave port without the premium repair and heal mainly for speed of recovery and extra heal. 

What this guy said also if it's just 1 fire let it burn all the way. It Buffs your Adrenaline Rush then heal it back after the engagement.

[Fog_Battlecruiser_Haruna]

kongou desu loves to fire HE too nothing stops you from lighting the IR on fire  too, then all is fair.

[goldeagle1123]

That's what happens when you add braindead easy and overpowered line like RN BBs. If you had told me at launch that WG would be so moronic as to add an HE spamming BB line to the game, I wold have laughed in your face. Yet here we are.

[Reymu]

Well duh:

 

Fire HE back at him!

 

When AP keeps being a stinking troll, I just take the fire chances. Kongo begins having AP penetration problems vs. dreadnoughts within 13km anyway, last I used my ARP Kongo.

[MrDeaf]

Kongo's strengths are speed and range

Iron Duke's strengths are stealth and firepower

 

Do not get in a straight up, 1v1, slugging match with a ship that has superior firepower. That applies to any ship.

[Midnitewolf]

Another factor is the Kongo (Kongou) is a Battlecruiser not a Battleship and does not have the armor profile of a Battleship.  The Iron duke on the other hand is a BB and has the armor to back it up.  That was likely one of the reason you were having difficulty hurting him and as someone else mentioned, even if he was slinging AP, he still would have likely beat you because of the match up and engagement ranges weren't in your favor.   

As to the HE vs AP debate, honestly I can do just as much average  damage per match with exclusively AP on a RN BB as I can going exclusively HE.  All the RN HE does is give the RN BB skipper choices that aren't available to many other BB and often the choice made isn't the best for the situation.  I can't count the number of times I have had HE loaded on my RN BBs and had a Cruiser pop up out of nowhere and give me the perfect deletion shot.....if only I had AP loaded instead of HE.  I mean I can still smack him around a bit with HE, maybe if my guns are big enough and its armor is weak enough, score a HE citadel but most often the results are at best a bloody nose when AP would have been a one hit knock out punch.   Same goes with BBs as well.  AP is almost always the best choice against a BB giving you broadside yet in a RN BB often as not your going to have HE loaded when the enemy BBs give you his broadside and even taking into account fires, the enemy BB ends up taking significantly less damage than it would have if you had been using AP.  Also a ship slowing dying to a DoT (fires) is still dangerous until it dies.  A ship citadelled to death in a single salvo isn't.  Finally fire damage can be healed, Citadel damage can't, not to any extent anyway.  

So what is the point?  Well quite simple. RN HE isn't a magic bullet, in fact if overused it might actually act as a disadvantage in terms of assisting your team in winning a match and even knowing that, none of that is going to matter when your ship is burning down to waterline all around you.  

[Xlap]

9 hours ago, SakuyaSama7 said:

My Kongou against their Iron Duke. I had been firing AP all the time at his broadside, micro'd and timed my repairs and heals (one fire: heal, two fires: repair) enough that I ran out of heals. No citadels were ever made because LUL DISPERSION SAYS SUPERSTRUCTURE HITS.

Am I just bad or is this a case of bad RNG?

I'm pretty sure it's the former, but I'd like your thoughts anyway.

Never go to a straight 1v1 unless you have some clear advantage or you dont have other choice. Even if you win the duel you are likely going to lose a lot of HP and time that could be better used in another place. 

 

Now, if you fought at 11km you was fighting on his terms, thats why he won the duel. Kongo has speed, gun range, gun calliber and gun accuracy advantage over Iron Duke, but you didnt use this advantage. What you should have done is: use your superior speed and range to dictate the engagement, Kongo fights better at range than Iron Duke. Go to the edge of his range, or even out of his range and s**t on him. 

 

You had a advantage and you didnt use it.