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RemusVespasian

Roma Needs Some Love

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15 hours ago, TheGreatBlasto said:

I have had to fight hard for months now to not blow 57 smackers on this beauty. Threads like this help me to stay strong and not do anything stupid with my money.

:cap_like:

Isn't available for doubloons in the tech tree now? Just imagine every time a salvo manages to entirely miss a target you can say

tenor.gif?itemid=7211429

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17 minutes ago, Sparviero said:

Isn't available for doubloons in the tech tree now? Just imagine every time a salvo manages to entirely miss a target you can say

tenor.gif?itemid=7211429

Huh?    

 

 

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I thought Roma was in the tech tree for doubloons so you don't have to cash out that much if you already have doubloons stockpiled.

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The more things that come out I really think this should be looked at again.

The armor is decent when angled, I like the speed, concealment and  turret rotation. The torpedo belt is pretty good but given the setup is needed to play up close.

The downside is the AA is awful, justified, the ship is highly susceptible to AP bombs, and the CV's counter the stealth of the ship plus the fact that the ship burns like wood on a fire. Even running a fire prevention (survivability build) it still burns. I could be ok with all of these but the guns just don't perform. I find myself getting way too many over pens, and regular pens when I feel I should get cits. I know how to aim as I can get them in French BBs, USN BBs, and IJN BBs. The dispersion could stand to have the sigma buffed and/or look at the shell fuse.

I think that would make the ship more balanced given the current  meta while still keeping a good bit of weakness.

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6 hours ago, Sparviero said:

I thought Roma was in the tech tree for doubloons so you don't have to cash out that much if you already have doubloons stockpiled.

Nope  Correction your right it wasn't a few days ago wonder why they changed that,   However pretty sure from what I've heard n seen the Fugly Credit Printing Camo isn't  on if that's available at all You'll Have To Buy That Seperately :Smile_sad:   And as :etc_swear: Up as she is without the camo she wouldn't be worth it

Edited by shadowsrmine

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51 minutes ago, aradragoon said:

The more things that come out I really think this should be looked at again.

The armor is decent when angled, I like the speed, concealment and  turret rotation. The torpedo belt is pretty good but given the setup is needed to play up close.

The downside is the AA is awful, justified, the ship is highly susceptible to AP bombs, and the CV's counter the stealth of the ship plus the fact that the ship burns like wood on a fire. Even running a fire prevention (survivability build) it still burns. I could be ok with all of these but the guns just don't perform. I find myself getting way too many over pens, and regular pens when I feel I should get cits. I know how to aim as I can get them in French BBs, USN BBs, and IJN BBs. The dispersion could stand to have the sigma buffed and/or look at the shell fuse.

I think that would make the ship more balanced given the current  meta while still keeping a good bit of weakness.

They don't change/nerf them,:cap_old:  they don't change/don't buff them either:Smile_sad:

Edited by shadowsrmine

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38 minutes ago, shadowsrmine said:

Nope  Correction your right it wasn't a few days ago wonder why they changed that,   However pretty sure from what I've heard n seen the Fugly Credit Printing Camo isn't  on if that's available at all You'll Have To Buy That Seperately :Smile_sad:   And as :etc_swear: Up as she is without the camo she wouldn't be worth it

It's still a premium ship and given the odds that most games you are going to at least do 50+% damage on at least one ship still does well economically. Example this is running pi day/dragon 333% and the 5 economic flags. ~25k commander XP instead of a crazy xp total. :cap_win:

https://imgur.com/a/thMFLaJ
9ckzBzb.jpg

 

However when you run into those ugly, ugly losing streaks.

tumblr_p6r10zc3wX1uagv9mo2_540.gif




I run the fire prevention build
JPdnpjw.png

and if I'm just facing HE spam it can all be healed back and I can print dreadnought/fire proof medals. Unfortunately people have gotten smart and just yolo to your flanks as long as they are smart enough to avoid getting close enough for your rounds to stay true:
may-the-odds-be-ever-in-your-favor-gif-6





As far as getting citadels. First of all thanks to the generous citadel placement for most nations to get a reliable citadel you actually have to be at a distance. Once you get danger close you are actually at a detriment to yourself. The only thing that might help is leaving binocular view and aiming as low as possible. I've been lead to believe that the rifles will actually depress a little further once no longer in an enhanced FoV. This may only be subjective however I was rather giddy after getting cits on a Cleveland that was close enough to read their Sunday comics.

GIF_166230_cuando_apruebas_todo_en_el_te

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1 hour ago, shadowsrmine said:

They don't change/nerf them,:cap_old:  they don't change/don't buff them either:Smile_sad:

They have buffed and nerfed premiums. Think prinze eugenio and alsace and conqueror for starters.    

 

:etc_red_button:          :cap_like:

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4 minutes ago, Sparviero said:

It's still a premium ship and given the odds that most games you are going to at least do 50+% damage on at least one ship still does well economically. Example this is running pi day/dragon 333% and the 5 economic flags. ~25k commander XP instead of a crazy xp total. :cap_win:

https://imgur.com/a/thMFLaJ
9ckzBzb.jpg

 

However when you run into those ugly, ugly losing streaks.

tumblr_p6r10zc3wX1uagv9mo2_540.gif




I run the fire prevention build
JPdnpjw.png

and if I'm just facing HE spam it can all be healed back and I can print dreadnought/fire proof medals. Unfortunately people have gotten smart and just yolo to your flanks as long as they are smart enough to avoid getting close enough for your rounds to stay true:
may-the-odds-be-ever-in-your-favor-gif-6





As far as getting citadels. First of all thanks to the generous citadel placement for most nations to get a reliable citadel you actually have to be at a distance. Once you get danger close you are actually at a detriment to yourself. The only thing that might help is leaving binocular view and aiming as low as possible. I've been lead to believe that the rifles will actually depress a little further once no longer in an enhanced FoV. This may only be subjective however I was rather giddy after getting cits on a Cleveland that was close enough to read their Sunday comics.

GIF_166230_cuando_apruebas_todo_en_el_te

And Does She Still Come With The Fugly Credit Printing Camo?    Or Do You As I Posited Have To Buy That Separately??

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4 minutes ago, Sparviero said:

It's still a premium ship and given the odds that most games you are going to at least do 50+% damage on at least one ship still does well economically. Example this is running pi day/dragon 333% and the 5 economic flags. ~25k commander XP instead of a crazy xp total. :cap_win:

https://imgur.com/a/thMFLaJ
 

 

However when you run into those ugly, ugly losing streaks.

 




I run the fire prevention build
 

and if I'm just facing HE spam it can all be healed back and I can print dreadnought/fire proof medals. Unfortunately people have gotten smart and just yolo to your flanks as long as they are smart enough to avoid getting close enough for your rounds to stay true:
 





As far as getting citadels. First of all thanks to the generous citadel placement for most nations to get a reliable citadel you actually have to be at a distance. Once you get danger close you are actually at a detriment to yourself. The only thing that might help is leaving binocular view and aiming as low as possible. I've been lead to believe that the rifles will actually depress a little further once no longer in an enhanced FoV. This may only be subjective however I was rather giddy after getting cits on a Cleveland that was close enough to read their Sunday comics.

 

Yes leaving "sniper" view does let you aim lower. Due to water mechanics, though, while possible to cit at close range it is difficult. The limited range and bad dispersion makes using arcing shots at range also difficult. I use repub. quite a bit which seems to have even flatter arcs and I get cits WAY more reliably with it. Healing HE spam is fine unless you are under constant fire. Either way that is a fine weakness.

As for credits with premium and 5 economic flags I could just use Missouri and earn 1m - 1.5m while still feeling like I had way more impact and didn't have to fight with the ship.

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1 minute ago, TheGreatBlasto said:

They have buffed and nerfed premiums. Think prinze eugenio and alsace and conqueror for starters.    

 

:etc_red_button:          :cap_like:

Alsace,Conqueror Aren't Premium They Are TechTree  and yes I had forgotten they buffed Prinze Eugen,Atago  which means yes Roma,Blyscyca and other premiums could and should be buffed to come up to standard

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31 minutes ago, shadowsrmine said:

Alsace,Conqueror Aren't Premium They Are TechTree  and yes I had forgotten they buffed Prinze Eugen,Atago  which means yes Roma,Blyscyca and other premiums could and should be buffed to come up to standard

Never post under the hot sun.  Lesson learned.

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2 hours ago, aradragoon said:

The more things that come out I really think this should be looked at again.

The armor is decent when angled, I like the speed, concealment and  turret rotation. The torpedo belt is pretty good but given the setup is needed to play up close.

The downside is the AA is awful, justified, the ship is highly susceptible to AP bombs, and the CV's counter the stealth of the ship plus the fact that the ship burns like wood on a fire. Even running a fire prevention (survivability build) it still burns. I could be ok with all of these but the guns just don't perform. I find myself getting way too many over pens, and regular pens when I feel I should get cits. I know how to aim as I can get them in French BBs, USN BBs, and IJN BBs. The dispersion could stand to have the sigma buffed and/or look at the shell fuse.

I think that would make the ship more balanced given the current  meta while still keeping a good bit of weakness.

Ok, and this is counting the Alabama ST version.

The Roma Ranks:

3rd in win ratio - Massachusetts 2nd and Alabama ST 1st

3rd in average frags - Massachusetts 2nd and Alabama ST 1st

4th in average damage - Richelieu 3rd, Massachusetts 2nd and Alabama ST 1st

3rd in average experience - Massachusetts 2nd and Alabama ST 1st

11th (out of 12) in Average Planes Destroyed

4th in average Kills/Deaths - Amagi 3rd, Massachusetts 2nd and Alabama ST 1st

 

I see 1 (that's one) possible problem area, but thinking from a balance perspective it can't have everything and even the Massachusetts is probably over tuned, but that only has 55k battles at the moment.

Other than that, out of 12 Battleships (including the Alabama ST version) it ranks no lower than 4th (with the exception of plane kills). Take out the SuperTester version and it gets a bump up to 2nd where you see 3rd and 3rd where you see 4th.

I don't know what you could "buff" without making it over powered.

1 hour ago, TheGreatBlasto said:

They have buffed and nerfed premiums. Think prinze eugenio and alsace and conqueror for starters.    

 

:etc_red_button:          :cap_like:

He already got ya below.

1 hour ago, shadowsrmine said:

Alsace,Conqueror Aren't Premium They Are TechTree  and yes I had forgotten they buffed Prinze Eugen,Atago  which means yes Roma,Blyscyca and other premiums could and should be buffed to come up to standard

Atago is a tricky ship and until recently (more sales that is), it sat relatively high on the totem pole. It can still stealth torp, has 203's in Tier 8 (it doesn't need to be balanced against Tier 10, doing that to any ship makes it grossly overpowered not only when it's down Tiered by 1, but 2), has a heal (which is nice) and has the option of Def AA or Sonar. Again, it is a tricky ship to play, but played right and it does very well, even in Tier 10 matches.

I haven't played my Bly in awhile, but I recall it being very similar to the Sims, ie: quick reload, good concealment, decent torps (but NOT a torp boat) and decent maneuverability. Did that change? Looking at the numbers, the Bly is in the middle of the pack on everything.

 

  • Boring 1

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Don't forget about games played. Big Mamie should blow past Roma in little time at all on NA and seems on pace on EU as well, however that may peter out after the bonus missions are used up. Kii/Gascone/Roma form the triad of unloved derpy main rifles and the games played showcases this. Tirpitz didn't want to make it a quartet for some reason. :cap_old: I'm fine with derpy rifles, it is getting close in and still having them act derpy that irritates me. At least let me have my overpens. :Smile_hiding:

 

Any buffs, per se, would definitely have to be balanced out with other concessions. Losing some visibility for Japanese dispersion would be nice. That still means massive vertical dispersion, just a tighter group and Japanese dispersion suffers at close range so still that little bit of fun and engaging to be had. TDS defense for rudder shift as well is something I would trade. Let's not forget the ship has an absolutely massive citadel in compensation for the ability to angle tank. Although you are going to lose turret II eventually if you sit nose in long enough.:cap_like:

 

All in good humor, cheers.

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After 170+ battles im getting the trick :D , whas hard because always play KM BBs and they aim different (from my view), i dnt have replays but have time to take the screenshot, same day got my first "dev strike" to a Des Moines with 3 citadels, and get 5 citadels at 18km (3x moskva and 2xmontana)

WhatsApp Image 2018-08-07 at 21.28.57.jpeg

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On 7/28/2018 at 9:26 PM, BURN_Miner said:

Ok, and this is counting the Alabama ST version.

The Roma Ranks:

3rd in win ratio - Massachusetts 2nd and Alabama ST 1st

3rd in average frags - Massachusetts 2nd and Alabama ST 1st

4th in average damage - Richelieu 3rd, Massachusetts 2nd and Alabama ST 1st

3rd in average experience - Massachusetts 2nd and Alabama ST 1st

11th (out of 12) in Average Planes Destroyed

4th in average Kills/Deaths - Amagi 3rd, Massachusetts 2nd and Alabama ST 1st

 

I see 1 (that's one) possible problem area, but thinking from a balance perspective it can't have everything and even the Massachusetts is probably over tuned, but that only has 55k battles at the moment.

Other than that, out of 12 Battleships (including the Alabama ST version) it ranks no lower than 4th (with the exception of plane kills). Take out the SuperTester version and it gets a bump up to 2nd where you see 3rd and 3rd where you see 4th.

I don't know what you could "buff" without making it over powered.

He already got ya below.

Atago is a tricky ship and until recently (more sales that is), it sat relatively high on the totem pole. It can still stealth torp, has 203's in Tier 8 (it doesn't need to be balanced against Tier 10, doing that to any ship makes it grossly overpowered not only when it's down Tiered by 1, but 2), has a heal (which is nice) and has the option of Def AA or Sonar. Again, it is a tricky ship to play, but played right and it does very well, even in Tier 10 matches.

I haven't played my Bly in awhile, but I recall it being very similar to the Sims, ie: quick reload, good concealment, decent torps (but NOT a torp boat) and decent maneuverability. Did that change? Looking at the numbers, the Bly is in the middle of the pack on everything.

 

Sorry it took me a bit to get back, didn't realize someone replied.

I am assuming you are using WoWs numbers as it matches the stats you show. The problem with your using this figures it that you should look at the number of battles. Roma is sitting at 100k battles which is close to Mass. and Kii with Monarch and Rich being the next closest at 400k matches all the way to NC with 4.3m and I am willing to bet this is an all time stats gathering. I wouldn't use that to try and counter my points. I could see some debate if warships today was still able to show ship data for like the last week or 2 and see how it is actively matching up. As such the sample size for Mass. and Roma seems low to say "it is performing well!" and the sample sizes are about the same on SEA and EU as well.

Point being that the top people are saying the same thing and it could be exactly why the numbers are rather low in terms of battles. Now in terms of balance my point stands. It has too many negatives going for it which has been addressed in many CC videos and other people. It is susceptible to fires, it doesn't have AA, AP bombs hit this HARD, it has a raised citadel so if you turn broadside expect to get hit hard, and the guns are inconsistent. All that makes for the game to be problematic. I would be willing to bet that if the number of battles for this ship moved up to 400k - 1m we would see the stats falling off dramatically. Unfortunately I don't think WG will release a breakdown of how the top, avg and bottom level of players are performing in this ship which they have said they capture.

As for buffs give it .1 sigma buff something relatively minor that might help it feel better when playing. Also keep in mind with the number of T10 battles it sees (quite a bit for me) the T10 legendary mods will make it even harder for Roma.

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On 7/29/2018 at 10:05 AM, Sparviero said:

Any buffs, per se, would definitely have to be balanced out with other concessions. Losing some visibility for Japanese dispersion would be nice. That still means massive vertical dispersion, just a tighter group and Japanese dispersion suffers at close range so still that little bit of fun and engaging to be had. TDS defense for rudder shift as well is something I would trade. Let's not forget the ship has an absolutely massive citadel in compensation for the ability to angle tank. Although you are going to lose turret II eventually if you sit nose in long enough.:cap_like:

TBH I got Roma for the combination she has now, that would be pretty much ruining the ship for me. Mamie sort of has something similar, but the concealment isn't there. Monarch has better concealment but she's just garbage otherwise. It's really refreshing to have a battleship that can do cheeky positioning without being seen and still has a good punch once you're there.

If they really wanted to fix gun handling, all they would have to do is give her USN dispersion. I'm not convinced Roma would be super mega OP with it, considering she's got 15" guns with normal reload. As she is now I don't think she needs any change at all, but giving her IJN dispersion would just shift the frustration of her guns around a little.

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7 hours ago, Sparviero said:

And if you change dispersion that increases efficiency™ and requires a tradeoff. :Smile_hiding:

But you know as well as I that WG will never nerf a premium outside of broad mechanic nerfs a'la smoke change for Kutuzov/etc. 14JLC2S.png?2

I don't think Roma needs a buff at all, but I'm waiting for sales to dip off what WG wants and her to get more sigma or something. Maybe nearing the release of the Italian BB line there will be something, just like happened with Warspite.

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On ‎1‎/‎19‎/‎2018 at 5:24 PM, Jonek52 said:

Agree with u guys. Slight buff to dispersion would not make this ship overpowered. Second thing is that this ship tends to overpen quite often. Guns are extramely unreliable.

but if u stay at 15 km..these guns citadel....more than any other.except maybe for the 18s..in my opinion

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Just a smidge more consistency on the guns would make Roma so much more comfortable to play.  In one game last night, I triple citted a Worcester at 15km but scored no hits against a Buffalo at 9km - literally shells fell all around it.  I went from giggling like a maniac to cursing at the screen.  I would gladly trade 1km of concealment to gain a little more consistency with the guns.  I'm not sure how best to improve the consistency, whether a small sigma buff or a dispersion adjustment...  Though I still feel like there is a bug with Roma's dispersion that causes it to be the full 240-ish meters even at point blank range, rather than scaling with distance; though that may just be confirmation bias.

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On 9/8/2018 at 8:43 PM, Uncle_Lou said:

Just a smidge more consistency on the guns would make Roma so much more comfortable to play.  In one game last night, I triple citted a Worcester at 15km but scored no hits against a Buffalo at 9km - literally shells fell all around it.  I went from giggling like a maniac to cursing at the screen.  I would gladly trade 1km of concealment to gain a little more consistency with the guns.  I'm not sure how best to improve the consistency, whether a small sigma buff or a dispersion adjustment...  Though I still feel like there is a bug with Roma's dispersion that causes it to be the full 240-ish meters even at point blank range, rather than scaling with distance; though that may just be confirmation bias.

Watch all your rounds miss at 5k against a broadside battleship and it will feel like more than confirmation bias. :cap_old:

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On 1/19/2018 at 9:28 AM, WeissRaben_2 said:

Give it a shorter fuze. I'm pretty sure it's overpenning the universe, right now - the AP crashes through anythings and zooms out of the other side before it can explode.

I've gotten a lot of bow penetrating cidatels with those guns, but you will need to use HE against everything but enemy BBs.

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The guns are hugely frustrating to this guy. What good is 11km concealment and shite dispersion if you need to be trolled by that dispersion at 15 km if you desire any hope of actually getting pens, forget cits? 

The penetration makes it feel like this ship was designed to fight other BB at 14+ km. The dispersion makes that an exercise in frustration. I’ve had my best results against DD, honestly.

One of my single most frustrating moments was putting 27+ shells in the air against an Iowa at close range...had a disappointing number of hits that resulted in maybe 2x pens to show for it. I lived because some teammates actually capable of doing damage killed the Iowa. Left me plenty of time to think about how virtually any other BB I’ve ever sailed would have sent that Iowa back to port by the second salvo...much the same way I do to Roma when I get her side at that range. 

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