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RemusVespasian

Roma Needs Some Love

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So I got Roma last night and if my name is any hint I love Italy, Rome, and most certainly the Littorio Class battleship, which is why I was so disappointed when I took her out. I may have been over hyped for my favorite Battleship class of World War Two but it completely undershot most of my expectations. First off tho i'll get the pros out of the way so everybody knows Im not just hating

Pros

Maneuverability - No battleship I've ever used responds as well as Roma does to commands and you can easily torpedobeat, her acceleration and deceleration are quite good except when your going full then of course it does take a bit to stop. 

Concealment - Unless a dd is spotting a Roma won't be detected unless it either wants to be or closes to fast.

HP Pool - very nice 65,400hp which comes in handy cause the armor is blah

Looks - By far (IMO) the sexiest battleship in the game, to include the peppermint flavored bow which is historical :P

Torpedo Protection - Not sure why but Roma has 40% Torpedo damage reduction 

Cons

AA - I dont mind this much since there are not many CVs and it was said that itd have terrible AA. Had trouble shooting down T6 planes yesterday but again Im okay with this.

Armor - I have some issue with the armor, that being the 130mm plate which eats more citadels then I care to confess and had me literally yelling Mamma Mia when a Colorado decided that he wanted a piece of my angled Roma. It seems to take more damage then my Alabama and Amagi but I think that is just me.

Range - Here is where I start have serious problems with the ship, the range is 18.1km which is quite terrible and less then every other tier 8 battleship including Tirpitz and Kii which are not exactly snipers and WG literally said on the post(For people who like to engage at range) So 20km please and ill be good. Willing to bring torp protection and concealment to get that 20km range cause 11.2km detection with full stealth in unnecessary. 

Guns - Sign this is my biggest issue, like wth I thought Italian BBs were being marketed as having very good AP and yet here is Roma. I can deal with the 18km range and the armor and the AA but this is the part that I hate the most. The dispersion on these guns is absolute terrible at 10km+ and even at 4.6km when I was firing at a Bismarck trying to hit Superstructure my rounds when over and under the ship but none where hitting. Then when the rounds do hit the AP is quite terrible on the penetration damage. Due to the 15inch guns and mm you'll get up-tiered to T10 a lot and you'll struggle of course but even when youp tier I get more pens that do no damage then any other ship and overall landing hits is quite hard. Broadside Nuremberg at 10km, all bb drivers love this, fires full broadside and gets 1 pen -2000(um what?) 2 over pens(seriously) the rest went high or low. RNG played its part(my thoughts) and reengaged and basically the same thing. 

 

In conclusion buff the range and dispersion. You can nerf concealment and torp protection all you want but please at least the dispersion and maybe a tweek to how the AP works so it doesn't bounce as often. Overall I would rate her a 6/10. The guns and range really hurt the ship. Yes if you check my stats I did get a Kraken with Roma last night but I was top tier and 3 of those kills were pretty much somebody else did the majority of the damage and I just secured(my most shameful kraken ever at 106k damage). Im averaging around 67% wins but im at around 15 battles now and most of those I had to be carried cause the ship doesn't perform well. Around 60k per battle, for comparison my North Carolina gets me around 92k a match and has 88% wins. 

Thank you for the read and have a great day!!!

Edited by xRemus
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It feels like Roma did not receive data for when the accuracy and/or sigma should increase at lower range. :cap_like:

With Cesare I know when to expect good salvo groupings and when to break out the rosary. Roma? when rounds are going the length of a north carolina below 10km when the max dispersion is 240ish at 18k?

 

DT07Nmj.gif

 

 

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My major issue is that up down dispersion, really screws with my shots cause I can compensate for left right dispersion but up down? lol thanks I needed a laugh hahaha My last game I had an Atago at 15km and missed 4 long, 1 short, 2 far left, 2 overpens :cap_wander:

Edited by xRemus
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Give it a shorter fuze. I'm pretty sure it's overpenning the universe, right now - the AP crashes through anythings and zooms out of the other side before it can explode.

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War Gameing designs these ship to reflect the ship as it was built. Her guns were not the best and the Italian navy desision for inferior shells made the ship weaker. 

 

Armament[ed

Armament[edit]

300px-Italian_battleship_Roma_%281940%29
 
Roma's forward triple 15-inch (381 mm) 50-caliber gun turrets.

The ships' main battery consisted of nine 381 mm L/50 Ansaldo 1934 guns in three triple turrets, two in a superfiring pair forward and one aft.[10] These long-barrel, high-velocity guns were chosen to compensate for the smaller 381 mm shell as compared to the 406 mm gun originally desired.[13] The 381 mm guns had a maximum elevation of 35 degrees, which allowed them to engage targets out to 42,260 m (138,650 ft). The guns fired a 885 kg (1,951 lb) armor-piercing (AP) shell at a muzzle velocity of 870 meters per second (2,900 ft/s).[17] High explosive shells weighed 774 kg (1,706 lb). The high muzzle velocity of the guns reduced their service life and increased the dispersion of the fall of shot. Shell rooms were located below the propellant magazines beneath the gun house in the turret structure. The guns' rate of fire was one shot every 45 seconds.[18][Note 2]

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1 minute ago, Raven114 said:

War Gameing designs these ship to reflect the ship as it was built. Her guns were not the best and the Italian navy desision for inferior shells made the ship weaker. 

 

Armament[ed

Armament[edit]

300px-Italian_battleship_Roma_%281940%29
 
Roma's forward triple 15-inch (381 mm) 50-caliber gun turrets.

The ships' main battery consisted of nine 381 mm L/50 Ansaldo 1934 guns in three triple turrets, two in a superfiring pair forward and one aft.[10] These long-barrel, high-velocity guns were chosen to compensate for the smaller 381 mm shell as compared to the 406 mm gun originally desired.[13] The 381 mm guns had a maximum elevation of 35 degrees, which allowed them to engage targets out to 42,260 m (138,650 ft). The guns fired a 885 kg (1,951 lb) armor-piercing (AP) shell at a muzzle velocity of 870 meters per second (2,900 ft/s).[17] High explosive shells weighed 774 kg (1,706 lb). The high muzzle velocity of the guns reduced their service life and increased the dispersion of the fall of shot. Shell rooms were located below the propellant magazines beneath the gun house in the turret structure. The guns' rate of fire was one shot every 45 seconds.[18][Note 2]

I realize this however Italian guns were high velocity and thus when a shell left the gun it had a high chance of staying on its intended path, I cant say much for Italian gunnery but the level of inaccurate that Roma is inexcusable for a $54 tier 8 bb. Its wholey uncompetitive in its current state. Told all my clan members to stay away.

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9 minutes ago, Raven114 said:

War Gameing designs these ship to reflect the ship as it was built. Her guns were not the best and the Italian navy desision for inferior shells made the ship weaker. 

 

Armament[ed

Armament[edit]

300px-Italian_battleship_Roma_%281940%29
 
Roma's forward triple 15-inch (381 mm) 50-caliber gun turrets.

The ships' main battery consisted of nine 381 mm L/50 Ansaldo 1934 guns in three triple turrets, two in a superfiring pair forward and one aft.[10] These long-barrel, high-velocity guns were chosen to compensate for the smaller 381 mm shell as compared to the 406 mm gun originally desired.[13] The 381 mm guns had a maximum elevation of 35 degrees, which allowed them to engage targets out to 42,260 m (138,650 ft). The guns fired a 885 kg (1,951 lb) armor-piercing (AP) shell at a muzzle velocity of 870 meters per second (2,900 ft/s).[17] High explosive shells weighed 774 kg (1,706 lb). The high muzzle velocity of the guns reduced their service life and increased the dispersion of the fall of shot. Shell rooms were located below the propellant magazines beneath the gun house in the turret structure. The guns' rate of fire was one shot every 45 seconds.[18][Note 2]

Uh, no. Not really. What made the dispersion patterns larger than the German or Japanese ones was the decision to not report the gunnery results by using one-standard-deviation methods - i.e., where 50% of the shells fell. When you look at a reported Italian dispersion, you're looking at where every shell fell, not "at least half". When accounting for this, the guns become suddenly quite accurate.

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This game is not pay to win, price of the ship does not reflect it's capabilities. Also read the Science of Dispersion Velocity is a small part. Someone did a in depth analysis on this forum explaining it. Wargameing uses and algorithm for the Krupp values of Guns. They make minor adjustments for balance reasons, but if the gun on the ship was inferior to the other ships designed at the time they do not adjust it to make it better.

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My experience so far has been good, but I did have a moment last night where I fired a full salvo at close range into a MO that was /barely/ angled (almost perfect broadside) and all of them bounced off the armor belt. Wasn't expecting that. Never had a BB straight up not pen another BB in near ideal conditions before. 

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18 minutes ago, Raven114 said:

This game is not pay to win, price of the ship does not reflect it's capabilities. Also read the Science of Dispersion Velocity is a small part. Someone did a in depth analysis on this forum explaining it. Wargameing uses and algorithm for the Krupp values of Guns. They make minor adjustments for balance reasons, but if the gun on the ship was inferior to the other ships designed at the time they do not adjust it to make it better.

Yeah, they use a formula derived from the USN Empirical Formula. The same one that gives the 381mm/50 more or less the same pen as the Iowa's guns.

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I've had my citadel blown out at interesting angles and I have had no luck with outright deleting anything. I can get 100k in a battle with her, but it's a struggle. Her guns overpenetrate everything, and with her dispersion that means that the average salvo does 3k (at least in my experience).

Alabama is just an all around better ship. In Roma's current state, I can't justify a recommendation over Alabama, Tirpitz, or even Kii. Tirpitz and Kii have torpedoes. Tirpitz is a lot tankier and has great secondaries. Kii makes up for fragility with outstanding AA and a devastating broadside. For outright gun performance (which imo is the most important factor), Alabama takes the cake. She even has good AA. 

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I had several good games in Roma last night.  There was some dispersion, but it was expected.  I adjusted game play and only engaged on ships within 15km and had no problems.  On tanking Iowas and Missouri's (which I find hilarious), I did switch to HE.  After a month of Brit HE I have to say Italian HE is a let down.  But again, not a surprise.  I've liked Roma thus far.

 

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For the range this is why you equip spotter plane for those moments when you do need to shoot long distance. Most of the time though you use the concealment to get a little closer on a flank and then hit braindead cruisers who overextended while they are broadside. Then if it gets hot you go dark again and reposition. LWM's review gives some good advice on how to get the most out of the Roma if you havent already read it.

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I only had a chance to get a few games in my Roma last night, overall I am happy with it.

 

Deck armor is incredibly trollish and bounces HE and AP shells with remarkable efficiency. It's extremely vulnerable on the sides even angled (feels like a NC). The dispersion is what I expected and the overpens can be annoying, but if you aim for heavier armor (or take shots on cruisers turning or angled), I seem to get nice full pens. So it's a bit of mental re-training on what to shoot.

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Still on the fence myself about getting it. Was really looking forward to it. 100$ is a bit steep. 60$ I can gulp down though.

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The dispersion is one of the weaknesses of the ship that was disclosed by many Content creators. The ship has many strengths when it comes to her gun handling, but there has to be something to counter the strengths to even things out. After reading little mouse's review, I knew that this ship isn't for me since I have to put up with crap dispersion when I play my German BBs.

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6 hours ago, RipNuN2 said:

For the range this is why you equip spotter plane for those moments when you do need to shoot long distance. Most of the time though you use the concealment to get a little closer on a flank and then hit braindead cruisers who overextended while they are broadside. Then if it gets hot you go dark again and reposition. LWM's review gives some good advice on how to get the most out of the Roma if you havent already read it.

You cannot reliably hit targets beyond max range with the spotter plane due to dispersion 

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The fact remains that this is bar non the least accurate bb per km in the game at tier 8. As was advertised it is for people who enjoy long range gunnery. And as for the pay to win comment I saw come up that was not what I was talking about in the least! I was stating that the price should be lowered to compensate for the major lacking of the ship. What is the primary feature of any warship? Its Armaments, the thing the ship is designed around, thus if the armament performs less than average the price should be lowered

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6 hours ago, Sharkbait_416 said:

I've had my citadel blown out at interesting angles and I have had no luck with outright deleting anything. I can get 100k in a battle with her, but it's a struggle. Her guns overpenetrate everything, and with her dispersion that means that the average salvo does 3k (at least in my experience).

Alabama is just an all around better ship. In Roma's current state, I can't justify a recommendation over Alabama, Tirpitz, or even Kii. Tirpitz and Kii have torpedoes. Tirpitz is a lot tankier and has great secondaries. Kii makes up for fragility with outstanding AA and a devastating broadside. For outright gun performance (which imo is the most important factor), Alabama takes the cake. She even has good AA. 

This right here is my argument, Roma is inferior to the competition and thus not competitive.  

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I have to agree... the range & dispersion are terrible, and need to be buffed.  I have yet to have a salvo that has done over 4k damage.  There just isn't any reason for it to be this bad.  Hopefully after they see the data, and how she under performs vs other T8's they will make a change.

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Agree with u guys. Slight buff to dispersion would not make this ship overpowered. Second thing is that this ship tends to overpen quite often. Guns are extramely unreliable.

Edited by Jonek52
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34 minutes ago, Jonek52 said:

Agree with u guys. Slight buff to dispersion would not make this ship overpowered. Second thing is that this ship tends to overpen quite often. Guns are extramely unreliable.

That's because of two things, I suppose.

1) The guns are just so overwhelmingly punchy, they tear through everything - that's overpens - unless it's a very much armored surface; and

2) the guns are too inaccurate, so you can't aim for those heavily armored parts, and you get overpens instead.

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I by no means want an OP ship as it is unrewarding, main reason I sold my Lion and Conqueror. I just want shorter fused rounds for more pens rather than overpens, better dispersion for more reliable accuracy overall(not asking for NC but just less long/short shots cause I can deal with left right shots), and maybe if WG is feeling nice 20km range. 

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So, fighting a Roma, my first salvo destroys A turret, my next destroys B turret, the third sends Roma to the Great Beyond. My Bismark is unimpressed.

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I guess this pretty much sums it up. As LWM stated, survive and you shall be rewarded. Aka Cesare strategery. However the salvos are going to troll you the entire time. Yes I know it might be shallow to complain about the accuracy in a 150k game. :cap_popcorn:

 

 

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