Musashi in game...

[_ENO_]

I thought for sure it would be 10 per game all day long but I barely saw 2 per game and I played quite awhile today. I'd see 8 yams per game throughout- VERY few mush. 

 

What gives?

 

[awiggin]

Because it's not as much a credit machine at Mo I assume. So I would guess that only collectors and players that want an IJN trainer will jump in it.

And the average player isn't going to plunk down $130 for a single ship...

[K538]

It's a bit of a gimmicky boat, you don't even see a lot of Yamatos at T10.  It's fun to get the big numbers, but neither ship is considered especially strong overall in terms of its influence on the match.  They're great for locking down a position on the map as long as they have a bit of support, but IMO they're possibly the battleship least likely to carry a game on their own at that tier.

Also, 750k XP is a lot of FXP for a casual player to gather and they're likely going to be doing it the second time since the MO is a stronger ship and is soon going to be gone from the tech tree.  So unless somebody wants to lay down a lot of cash they need to play a quite a few games to get it.  It's not going to be like the day a normal premium is released and we see them all over the place.

[_ENO_]

That's what I was thinking. I've been wrong lots but I'm wondering if they cranked out a lemon. Sure people will have some good games with paltry returns... a dude cranked out over 400k damage with a gearing. What numbers do people care about anymore? 

XP, FXP, credits... captain XP... 

 

Why does a person buy Mush? 

Today they didn't. 

[landedkiller]

Well Littlewhitemouse did collect data from a few people and it showed that Musashi makes 20% less credits than Missouri call it a bait and switch if you will. Spending the same amount of free xp for less credit income not a good idea. The Musashi only makes 12% more in credit income than tier 8's.I am very happy with my decision to put in on Missouri instead of waiting for Musashi. Who knows what kind of crap will be pulled to keep others from Missouri a new currency perhaps. Been apart of a couple free to plays and this is what usually happens. Long story short grab Missouri if you want a higher earning potential or grab Musashi for nostalgic Japanese ww2 history and less credits 

[_ENO_]

15 minutes ago, landedkiller said:

Well Littlewhitemouse did collect data from a few people and it showed that Musashi makes 20% less credits than Missouri call it a bait and switch if you will. Spending the same amount of free xp for less credit income not a good idea. The Musashi only makes 12% more in credit income than tier 8's.I am very happy with my decision to put in on Missouri instead of waiting for Musashi. Who knows what kind of crap will be pulled to keep others from Missouri a new currency perhaps. Been apart of a couple free to plays and this is what usually happens. Long story short grab Missouri if you want a higher earning potential or grab Musashi for nostalgic Japanese ww2 history and less credits 

I have to admit I ended up dumping a wad on Missouri since it had a couple things going for it. Radar, toughened up bow, credits (which I didn't really need)... Mush is like... yeah 18.1 inch guns the 1 in 5 missions I end up top tier and it's significant (because you couldn't see a yamato) and... and... 

And nothing. Instead of being an upgrade of an existing tech tree ship it's a downgrade of a ship that's already unremarkable because of power creep that either is or isn't a thing. 

[IpwnLotsofGuns]

I was uptiered in most of my games in the Musashi. Sub par AA and secondaries, the same terrible turret traverse and overall handling as the yamato. As a Musashi owner, why get uptiered and play the Musashi when I can play the yamato?

 

This ship is just not as sexy as the MO and it doesn't print credits. Each game I play in the Musashi, it becomes harder to justify playing it more....

 

Gimmicky ship...most likely not worth the freexp. I will play 20 more games in it before I shelve it.

[_ENO_]

Just now, alphainfinity said:

Gimmicky ship...

That's it though- what's the gimmick? Big guns in tier 9 when -as has been mentioned before- the overmatch is irrelevant over 15"? 

[Admiral_Thrawn_1]

37 minutes ago, awiggin said:

Because it's not as much a credit machine at Mo I assume. So I would guess that only collectors and players that want an IJN trainer will jump in it.

And the average player isn't going to plunk down $130 for a single ship...

That is why players like me are acquiring Missouri first and then turning out attentionnto Musashi.

Thankfully in my case since I got my Missouri last week I am now focusing on what it will take to get Musashi.

[BiggieD61]

2 minutes ago, Admiral_Thrawn_1 said:

That is why players like me are acquiring Missouri first and then turning out attentionnto Musashi.

Thankfully in my case since I got my Missouri last week I am now focusing on what it will take to get Musashi.

"Fear of Loss" is the single most powerful tool in a salesman's arsenal ( particularly car salesmen ).  Once people realized that the clock had started ticking on the Missouri going away for a year, focus began on securing that ship first, figuring they could always pick up the Musashi later.

Honestly I see fewer Yammies than one would expect since they were the first "super ship" back when the game left beta.  I see mostly Montana's and Grosser K's, with a small group of Yammies and Conquerors when I'm in tier 10 mm.  Based on having to grind through the Izumo, a lot of people prefer the easier Montana or even Grosser K grinds to the IJN grind.

[_ENO_]

4 minutes ago, Admiral_Thrawn_1 said:

That is why players like me are acquiring Missouri first and then turning out attentionnto Musashi.

Thankfully in my case since I got my Missouri last week I am now focusing on what it will take to get Musashi.

I dumped my free XP on Nelson leaving me with very little. I'm having my own struggles with that ship at that tier which is literally it's own thread so I'll leave it there.

 So paypal took care of Missouri for me because reasons. Originally I was thinking- [edited] it. I'm going to get Mush to train my Japanese BB skippers. But Isitsucky and Mustboo already exist in the category of unremarkable premiums that I already have and I think I've played them 6 times total. 

As much as I'd love to be the elephant in the room with my 18" [edited] to swing around and knock everyone senseless it's unremarkable since most are sporting 15" and that all that is needed to drive the point home. 

 

[Estimated_Prophet]

44 minutes ago, Gascan75 said:

Why does a person buy Mush? 

Because I didn't want Yamato, and wanted a ship with the 1942 configuration; sucky secondaries or not...

...also because I still have over 3mil fxp left after picking it up.

Been playing since September '15, and for all intents and purposes didn't spend any fxp after (stupidly, it turned out,) pushing my way up to Des Moines and Fletcher as fast as I could, so it built up.

The first real drawdown was when Missouri came out.

As far as not seeing many goes; mine hasn't been seen yet because I have more important things to do atm, and haven't even played the game for almost two weeks.

[Dodgy_Cookies]

Musashis are all in PVE doing the container missions today

[Helstrem]

What is not irrelevant is that Musashi is essentially a Tier X ship unless the game has CVs, but fills a Tier IX slot, which means she isn't countered by another Tier X on the enemy team, but rather by a Tier IX.  That is the advantage she brings in a Tier X game.

[centarina]

the Mushi is frankly OP at t9.   it has adequate  accuracy with fast reload and hits dang hard.   its nose is tough with huge health pool.      only weak spot is  AA but it does have good belt.    its play style is bit limiting, but effective in most cases.   it is very easy to do 100k dmg with it .   Missou is good, but  i have to think mushi is stronger t9.    due to extra dmg that I am doing with musashi,   earning isn't that much different between the two.           

[Ramsalot]

20 minutes ago, Helstrem said:

What is not irrelevant is that Musashi is essentially a Tier X ship unless the game has CVs, but fills a Tier IX slot, which means she isn't countered by another Tier X on the enemy team, but rather by a Tier IX.  That is the advantage she brings in a Tier X game.

The whole absence of AA is highly overrated.  Determined CV player will take out unsupported Yamato same as Musashi, with minimal losses.

[YamatoA150]

Musashi just isn't as exciting for most. I find her tolerable, good enough to be an actual IJN BB Captain trainer (besides Kii), but not outstanding enough to be a must-buy, unlike Missouri. Additionally, with Missouri departing in Update 7.2 or so, the priority for most is Missouri due to all the things she has going for her over Musashi.

For one, she's still another downtiered stock hull IJN Premium Battleship, which many have taken issue with across all servers; enough that WG did say after Musashi there won't be more downtiered stock hull Premiums for the IJN at least, (but we'll see). I had my issues with her, but the 30s reload buff makes her playable. Others just don't like the fact that it isn't Musashi just prior to her sinking, which would have allowed her to be the first T10 FXP Premium instead.

Second, having 6-9 460mm cannons blasting T7s is nice when it happens, but it doesn't really hurt them more than facing 16" or larger guns. If anything, it may lead to slightly more overpens vs some of the thinner armored T7s, or slightly more consistent damage on lesser battleships. I don't have an issue with this here, but plenty have cited it as an issue.

Third, her AA is only about T7.5~T8 level, and so are her secondaries. They don't even have a buff to secondary range to slightly compensate (matching GK's maxed out secondary range of about 11.5km or the incoming 12km ranges of the current T10 France). Worse, Musashi's secondaries also reload slower than Yamato's for no real reason. So she's pretty much a one-trick build focused entirely on her main guns and playing the standard bow-camp game. The AA isn't as big of a deal now that T9 and T10 CVs use T8 bombers (IIRC), but the arbitrary nerf to secondary RoF vs Yamato's was a notable issue with many.

Fourth, Musashi is pretty lacking compared to the Missouri she's to eventually replace. She simply doesn't have anything of major value beyond collection or trainer purposes. She could have had Radar, which would be even more situational with her than Missouri due to being impossible to conceal. She could have had better maneuverability matching Yamato's CBT maneuverability, which was roughly 800m rather than the current 900m, and a 16~17s rudder shift time, which would have allowed for a bit more aggression or an active means of damage mitigation (with the risk of being citadeled remaining a thing). Again, she could have had better secondary ranges and/or better secondary performance over Yamato (such as 155 HE shells rather than AP, or slightly improved normalization 155 AP). She could have even been given a better Credit multiplier on her HSF camouflage at the least, encouraging HSF camo sales as well as giving the few fans of Musashi a means to roughly match Missouri in credit earnings.

---

Again, she's decent, but not outstanding. She's not as flexible or high roller as Missouri, and there-in lies the crux of the issue. She's very much a sit-and-wait battleship like Yamato a tier above. Players who don't like the campy meta will not like Musashi at all. Unlike the RNBBs, who've all gotten their citadels lowered to the point of nonexistence (there should still be some above water sections around the funnel areas), Musashi retains a high citadel but no abilities/gimmicks to offset it (unlike RN Hyper Heals, or Yamato's old Super Heal, or Yamato's old maneuverability, or better secondary ranges, etc), which prevents her from being a bit more proactive other than tanking from the second line or behind a traveling group.

[HazeGrayUnderway]

2 hours ago, Gascan75 said:

I thought for sure it would be 10 per game all day long but I barely saw 2 per game and I played quite awhile today. I'd see 8 yams per game throughout- VERY few mush. 

 

What gives?

 

There's a HSF Yamato mission going on, that will explain all the Yamato BBs coming out of the woodworks.  Don't expect to see too much Musashi right now.  750k FXP is still a lot and some guys just spent theirs to get Missouri in the last minute

 

[BunnyHerd]

2 hours ago, Gascan75 said:

I thought for sure it would be 10 per game all day long but I barely saw 2 per game and I played quite awhile today. I'd see 8 yams per game throughout- VERY few mush. 

What gives?

Yamato is also eligible for the cartoon mission/challenge. I imagine mroe old-timers own a Yamato and perhaps haven0't even noticed Musashi in the tech tree (as was the case for myself when Nelson came out - "oh look, a feree XP ship that isn't Missouri, what gives?").

[MaxL_1023]

Until WG looks at overmatch the Musashi will always be broken in skilled hands. Secondaries and AA are useless in ~75% of games unless you are in a German BB and specifically tailor your play to take advantage of them. Even so, I would take 18.1 inch guns in exchange for ALL my secondaries and AA on basically all my high tier BBs. CVs are just too rare at the moment - maybe if they get reworked things might change but as it is now it seems all you can do is trade one broken mechanic for another.

[Ramsalot]

2 minutes ago, MaxL_1023 said:

Until WG looks at overmatch the Musashi will always be broken in skilled hands. Secondaries and AA are useless in ~75% of games unless you are in a German BB and specifically tailor your play to take advantage of them. Even so, I would take 18.1 inch guns in exchange for ALL my secondaries and AA on basically all my high tier BBs. CVs are just too rare at the moment - maybe if they get reworked things might change but as it is now it seems all you can do is trade one broken mechanic for another.

Agreed.  I played bunch of games on Musashi today, and it’s pretty much Yamato for all intents and purposes, with softer matchmaking.  When I play on my Yamato I never rely on my AA or secondaries, it’s not any different from Musashi in this aspect.

[MaxL_1023]

It doesn't help that BB AA doesn't really work anyways. Unless you are uptiered on the CV, all he has to do is drop from a little further out to avoid your close-range DPS. Not to mention that by 5 minutes in you lose 50% of your DPS from HE hits. 

The only reason cruiser AA works is Defensive Fire - the panic effect blunts dive bombers and makes torpedo spreads unlikely to get more than one hit. Battleships have no chance - heck with 2 squads autodropping with torpedo planes will get you 3-4 hits if you cross them correctly, and keep the planes fairly safe. 

[HazeGrayUnderway]

5 minutes ago, MaxL_1023 said:

It doesn't help that BB AA doesn't really work anyways. Unless you are uptiered on the CV, all he has to do is drop from a little further out to avoid your close-range DPS. Not to mention that by 5 minutes in you lose 50% of your DPS from HE hits. 

The only reason cruiser AA works is Defensive Fire - the panic effect blunts dive bombers and makes torpedo spreads unlikely to get more than one hit. Battleships have no chance - heck with 2 squads autodropping with torpedo planes will get you 3-4 hits if you cross them correctly, and keep the planes fairly safe. 

AA works.  The difference is if people invest in it with the proper ship, and those that don't.

High Tier USN BB AA is magnificent if specced.

High Tier USN BB AA is worthless if not specced.

 

If specced those planes would get shot up hard.  But a decent CV player will know if you were properly specced for it or not and will treat you accordingly.

 

But Musashi has terrible, TERRIBLE AA to begin with.  One just simply has to live with the fact that air power will be your kryptonite in the ship, and has to play accordingly.  Of course, this rather simplifies build conundrums.

Your secondaries are disappointing.

Your AA may as well not exist.

But you got a lot of armor, HP, and your guns are mighty.

 

That pretty much shoehorns you into Main Battery & Survival.  Stealth can easily be fit in with enough points.

[MaxL_1023]

The problem is when your full AA spec USN BB gets burned to the waterline by a fail-divisioned Farragut.

You sacrifice far too much survivability for the games without a CV.

[HazeGrayUnderway]

1 hour ago, MaxL_1023 said:

The problem is when your full AA spec USN BB gets burned to the waterline by a fail-divisioned Farragut.

You sacrifice far too much survivability for the games without a CV.

You don't get burned to the waterline when you manage your position, angles, and consumables properly.

 

The HE + Fires situation used to be far more dangerous a while back than it is now, believe it or not.

DDs & Cruisers had stealthfire.

Blyskawica used to have about a 3-4km stealthfire window.

Ibuki used to have a 5km window.

USN DDs in particular lived off of it, i.e. a pair of Gearings stealthfiring a BB in open water.

Zao was the Queen of Stealthfire + Hellfire shells.

 

There was no Fire Prevention, etc.

 

Position right and the amount of gunfire leveled at you is limited and the chances of you getting focus fired is less.  This is by far the most important one.  Bad position gets you focus fired and that is when HE+Fires are at their worst.

Angle right and you will be suffering far less 3-4 fires on you.  2 will be at the worst.  Angle wrong and you were will be ablaze with 4 fires, bow to stern.

Use your consumables right (DCP, Repair Party) and you greatly diminish the effects of fire on you.

 

I have all 4 Tier X BBs.

GK is Secondaries Build.

Yamato is Survival / a bit of Fire PRevention / Main Battery / Concealment.

Montana is my usual AA / Stealth Hybrid Build.

Conqueror is a weird hodgepodge of AA / Stealth / Consumables.

 

I handle fires just fine.  If I fail in handling fires, it's because I was a d*mn idiot and got into a terrible 6+ enemy ship focus fire situation.