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Kraken1940

Kiev players

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How many of you get salty captains going off on you, when you do not rush immediately into the cap.

I always have to explain to these guys that my goal is to draw fire and make them turn their turrets away from my BB's and CA's.

This is how a Kiev can carry a game, because the more shells they waste on the Kiev the better for the team.

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2 minutes ago, Kraken1940 said:

How many of you get salty captains going off on you, when you do not rush immediately into the cap.

I always have to explain to these guys that my goal is to draw fire and make them turn their turrets away from my BB's and CA's.

This is how a Kiev can carry a game, because the more shells they waste on the Kiev the better for the team.

I ignore them and support the nearest stealth DD. If you ever get a chance to follow around a player like @kombatwombat in a game when he is in a US DD all will be forgiven. My highest damage in tier 8 Kiev was with him. If people don't know by now that Kiev's contest caps from the outside by killing everyone that goes inside the circle then they have been living under a rock or are a Noob and are to be ignored.

Just play to the ships strengths and don't listen to whatever incoherent babble they are rambling.

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I'll even tell other DD players to sometimes hold back from the cap, just to figure out where the enemy is, before going in or supporting.  Forcing the enemy to expose themselves or smoke up early can give you and advantage.  This is especially important if the enemy has radar.  The Kiev is a strong DD when played correctly, and it is nimble enough to be the one to draw fire from a safe distance.  

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This guy got really salty. Fortunately some other players on my team piped in and explained to him how to Kiev.

At first he insisted that he knows how to Kiev.

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3 minutes ago, Murcc said:

I'll even tell other DD players to sometimes hold back from the cap, just to figure out where the enemy is, before going in or supporting.  Forcing the enemy to expose themselves or smoke up early can give you and advantage.  This is especially important if the enemy has radar.  The Kiev is a strong DD when played correctly, and it is nimble enough to be the one to draw fire from a safe distance.  

That's why I love the Kiev. You are firing the whole time and making it hard for others to hit you. I have had various captains giving me the f.... you, after I burnt them down. It is a little devilish ship.

Edited by Kraken1940

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Yeh thats like when people b*tch to me about how to play kiev and that im an idiot for not contesting caps. A kiev has horrible concealment. B i dont run CE on russian dd's cuz why tf should i. C: kiev is not a close quarter fighter. She is very fragile and a very sluggish turner (lets not even go there on the trashcan)

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1 minute ago, Kraken1940 said:

That's why I love the Kiev. You are firing the whole time and making it hard for others to hit you. I have had various captains giving me the f.... you, after I burnt them down. It is a little devilish ship.

Yeh thats why i luv her too. Once got 170k dmg high cal, confed, witherer, kraken, 6 kills and still lost

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4 minutes ago, RiverTheIdiot said:

Yeh thats why i luv her too. Once got 170k dmg high cal, confed, witherer, kraken, 6 kills and still lost

Ouch. I know the feeling. Sucks to be the best loser.

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Just now, Kraken1940 said:

Ouch. I know the feeling. Sucks to be the best loser.

Yeh made me feel good when i was the #1 XP earner in the entire game even on a loss

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People assume that having the DD icon means you're supposed to rush the cap immediately. Some ships are designed for it, others aren't. 

Even in a stealthier destroyer I get people yelling that I'm not contesting a cap. It's not a great idea to charge headlong into if you don't know where the enemy radar ships are and/or there's no cover to hide behind if lit. 

Edited by Kombat_W0MBAT
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3 minutes ago, Kombat_W0MBAT said:

People assume that having the DD icon means you're supposed to rush the cap immediately. Some ships are designed for it, others aren't. 

Even in a stealthier destroyer I get people yelling that I'm not contesting a cap. It's not a great idea to charge headlong into if you don't know where the enemy radar ships are and/or there's no cover to hide behind if lit. 

 

6 minutes ago, RiverTheIdiot said:

Yeh made me feel good when i was the #1 XP earner in the entire game even on a loss

That doesn't help me. I hate losing. Sometimes I can feel the salt and have to go do something else.

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4 minutes ago, Kombat_W0MBAT said:

People assume that having the DD icon means you're supposed to rush the cap immediately. Some ships are designed for it, others aren't. 

Even in a stealthier destroyer I get people yelling that I'm not contesting a cap. It's not a great idea to charge headlong into if you don't know where the enemy radar ships are and/or there's no cover to hide behind if lit. 

I suspect the guys mouthing off, are ones that have never played a DD.

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The real fun is when you're the only green DD against a pair of IJN sneakyboats.

You'll destroy them if you find them, but maneuvering to trap them so you can actually see them takes some effort.

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26 minutes ago, PelicanHazard said:

The real fun is when you're the only green DD against a pair of IJN sneakyboats.

You'll destroy them if you find them, but maneuvering to trap them so you can actually see them takes some effort.

 

I used to take RPF on my RU DDs for that very reason. There's no escaping a DD chasing you down at 45 knots. 

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1 hour ago, Kombat_W0MBAT said:

 

I used to take RPF on my RU DDs for that very reason. There's no escaping a DD chasing you down at 45 knots. 

Thats when you get your sounboard and play "i dont know who you are or where you are. But one thing is certain. I will find you, and i will kill you"

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If I'm in a game where team composition or my spawn dictate that I'm "supposed" to cap, I just spell it out in team chat before the battle even starts: "I have an 8.7km conceal.  I'll give it a shot but if it's contested I have to bail for a bit."

Maybe I've been lucky, but between that and giving tons of fire/smoke support to my other destroyers & cruisers, I haven't really gotten much flak for playing Kiev to its strengths.  The issue is that the ship characteristics combined with my teammates' general propensity for suiciding at the earliest possible moment lead to a lot of high damage/XP losses. :Smile_facepalm: 

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On 1/18/2018 at 6:35 PM, PelicanHazard said:

The real fun is when you're the only green DD against a pair of IJN sneakyboats.

You'll destroy them if you find them, but maneuvering to trap them so you can actually see them takes some effort.

I had a really tough game yesterday, against a stealthy DD and a Minotaur whom were working together. The Mino captain was unusually accurate, given the range. Very talented obviously.

He also had every smoke boost you can think of, because for the first part of the game he remained hidden in smoke the whole time. The enemy DD would light me up and the Mino would open fire.

I would duck and dive whilst retreating at full speed, but the enemy DD kept me lit and the Mino machine gun would land a shell every now and again. Sweating bullets I got so frustrated that I decided

come hell or high water, I am going to Kamikaze this DD. So I turned towards him and hit speed boost. End result we both died, whilst that specific Mino still wrecked havoc on my team for another 5 mins or so.

 

Had to pause after that game and think about that game. I admire their combined specific strategy and shooting accuracy. Great teamwork and they both knew what their roles were and played to each others strengths.

Fortunately we won that game, but this wasn't because of anything I did.

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On 1/18/2018 at 8:15 PM, Harv72b said:

If I'm in a game where team composition or my spawn dictate that I'm "supposed" to cap, I just spell it out in team chat before the battle even starts: "I have an 8.7km conceal.  I'll give it a shot but if it's contested I have to bail for a bit."

Maybe I've been lucky, but between that and giving tons of fire/smoke support to my other destroyers & cruisers, I haven't really gotten much flak for playing Kiev to its strengths.  The issue is that the ship characteristics combined with my teammates' general propensity for suiciding at the earliest possible moment lead to a lot of high damage/XP losses. :Smile_facepalm: 

I never use my smoke for myself, unless I find myself in a pickle. I go flank speed, spot BB's and open fire. Then everyone starts to fire at me, thus all guns are aimed at me. Then it is ducking and diving time, whilst laying down smoke ahead of my team and making sure to keep the enemy spotted thus remaining spotted myself. The more shells the enemy waste on me = win for my team. 

The ultimate game is where I can get myself on the opposite side of the enemy and I force them to turn their turrets the wrong way. I makes me glad when they are all shooting at me, because that means they are not shooting at my team, this whilst my team is shooting at them. I used to have the "priority target" skill, but not any more. I don't care if I am a priority target, for I prefer this. Incoming shell alert is all that is required in the first line.

If you can avoid shells with the Kiev, you can carry games.

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On ‎1‎/‎18‎/‎2018 at 11:16 AM, RiverTheIdiot said:

Yeh thats like when people b*tch to me about how to play kiev and that im an idiot for not contesting caps. A kiev has horrible concealment. B i dont run CE on russian dd's cuz why tf should i. C: kiev is not a close quarter fighter. She is very fragile and a very sluggish turner (lets not even go there on the trashcan)

Heya, River.

 

I've been meaning to write up a longish post on something related to this.  Not the Kiev exactly.  

Some points.  I run CE on certain Russian DDs.  The Grozovoi, yes.  The Khab, no.  I don't run it on the Khab because even with a full conceal build (paint, CE, and module), the concealment on a Khab is so horrible (something like 7.7 km, I think) that it's a waste of time.  It STILL couldn't stealth torp.  And it would still get spotted by just about any reasonably stealthy DD by a full kilometer or 2.  Furthermore and possibly more importantly, a Khab that uses the conceal module gives up steering mod 3, which is the only thing (combined with steering mod 2) that allows the Khab to not handle like a battleship.  The Groz, OTOH, can be competitively stealthy with a full conceal build, so I use it.

 

Moving on...

I really, really wish that the devs would take a much closer look at a few things here.  I think that it would be a Good Thing(tm) for all destroyers to be competitive when it came to capping.  This would require that all DDs have competitive concealments.  Not equal, but close enough to be competitive.  Competitive as in they wouldn't get outspotted by a couple of kilometers even with full concealment builds.

The problem here is that the devs are trying to force  national flavor onto DDs and IMO that is competing with good gameplay for all DDs in this regard.  I think, and it's just my own opinion, that it would be good if all DDs could be competitive cappers.  But if you don't have a competitive concealment, you can't be a competitive capper IMO.  Furthermore, a DD like the Khab, even if could get its concealment down to a competitive level with a full conceal build, would still be at a massive disadvantage with its absolutely horrible agility when it doesn't use steering mod 3.  Also, many Russian style DDs and IJN DDs have horrible gun traverses, which also make them less than competitive cappers.

On top of this, we have a couple of battle modes, Domination and Epicenter, where capping is extremely important to your team's ability to win.  But if you end up with a number of uncompetitive capping DDs on your team vs. a team with very competitive cappers, you're screwed.

I think that the best way to get players of all DD classes to be willing to be cappers is to make all DDs competitive at capping.  And that requires some changes, like reductions in concealment and turret traverses to a number of DD classes.  Also, certain Russian DDs would need to be more agile when they're using a full conceal build (as part of being concealment competitive).  On some of those Russian DDs, would this require offsetting changes for the sake of balance?  Possibly. 

Would this make all DDs play the same?  No, but they would play more similarly than they do today.  But at the same time, it would allow all DD classes to be able to be competitive cappers without their players knowing that they'd be at a massive disadvantage for trying to help out on caps.  And right now, for some DDs, the disadvantages are so massive that they simply won't get near a cap.  About the best you can sometimes hope for is that a Khab (for example) will hang around semi-close to a cap to support a far stealthier DD.   But wouldn't it be nice if the Khab player felt comfortable enough to join that other DD on cap and compete for the cap?

 

Anyways, just some ideas on the larger topic of concealment, DDs, and capping.

 

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1 hour ago, Crucis said:

Heya, River.

 

I've been meaning to write up a longish post on something related to this.  Not the Kiev exactly.  

Some points.  I run CE on certain Russian DDs.  The Grozovoi, yes.  The Khab, no.  I don't run it on the Khab because even with a full conceal build (paint, CE, and module), the concealment on a Khab is so horrible (something like 7.7 km, I think) that it's a waste of time.  It STILL couldn't stealth torp.  And it would still get spotted by just about any reasonably stealthy DD by a full kilometer or 2.  Furthermore and possibly more importantly, a Khab that uses the conceal module gives up steering mod 3, which is the only thing (combined with steering mod 2) that allows the Khab to not handle like a battleship.  The Groz, OTOH, can be competitively stealthy with a full conceal build, so I use it.

 

Moving on...

I really, really wish that the devs would take a much closer look at a few things here.  I think that it would be a Good Thing(tm) for all destroyers to be competitive when it came to capping.  This would require that all DDs have competitive concealments.  Not equal, but close enough to be competitive.  Competitive as in they wouldn't get outspotted by a couple of kilometers even with full concealment builds.

The problem here is that the devs are trying to force  national flavor onto DDs and IMO that is competing with good gameplay for all DDs in this regard.  I think, and it's just my own opinion, that it would be good if all DDs could be competitive cappers.  But if you don't have a competitive concealment, you can't be a competitive capper IMO.  Furthermore, a DD like the Khab, even if could get its concealment down to a competitive level with a full conceal build, would still be at a massive disadvantage with its absolutely horrible agility when it doesn't use steering mod 3.  Also, many Russian style DDs and IJN DDs have horrible gun traverses, which also make them less than competitive cappers.

On top of this, we have a couple of battle modes, Domination and Epicenter, where capping is extremely important to your team's ability to win.  But if you end up with a number of uncompetitive capping DDs on your team vs. a team with very competitive cappers, you're screwed.

I think that the best way to get players of all DD classes to be willing to be cappers is to make all DDs competitive at capping.  And that requires some changes, like reductions in concealment and turret traverses to a number of DD classes.  Also, certain Russian DDs would need to be more agile when they're using a full conceal build (as part of being concealment competitive).  On some of those Russian DDs, would this require offsetting changes for the sake of balance?  Possibly. 

Would this make all DDs play the same?  No, but they would play more similarly than they do today.  But at the same time, it would allow all DD classes to be able to be competitive cappers without their players knowing that they'd be at a massive disadvantage for trying to help out on caps.  And right now, for some DDs, the disadvantages are so massive that they simply won't get near a cap.  About the best you can sometimes hope for is that a Khab (for example) will hang around semi-close to a cap to support a far stealthier DD.   But wouldn't it be nice if the Khab player felt comfortable enough to join that other DD on cap and compete for the cap?

 

Anyways, just some ideas on the larger topic of concealment, DDs, and capping.

 

I frequently cap with the Kiev, just not at the start of the game.

I actually like the Kiev concealment, because when I get spotted by another DD I can turn away making sure the range stays in my favor and if the other DD (let's say a Gearing) opens up at my spotting distance of 8.7km, I'll be kiting away, further increasing the distance and he will be dead shortly.

 

The problem we have is some players have never played DD and get very salty when you don't immediately rush into the cap and..........die.

A Khaba with high concealment. I shudder at the thought, for it will be very OP.

Edited by Kraken1940

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2 hours ago, Kraken1940 said:

If you can avoid shells with the Kiev, you can carry games.

I'm still looking for the elusive 2 million potential damage game.  My record is 1.4 something. :cap_like:

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Had a Fletcher trying to teamkill my Kiev the other day because I was firing my guns... :Smile_facepalm:

He turned pink and started reflecting damage before he could finish the job, so he spent the rest of the game ranting about me and begging the rest of the team to teamkill me.

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1 hour ago, Crucis said:

Heya, River.

 

I've been meaning to write up a longish post on something related to this.  Not the Kiev exactly.  

Some points.  I run CE on certain Russian DDs.  The Grozovoi, yes.  The Khab, no.  I don't run it on the Khab because even with a full conceal build (paint, CE, and module), the concealment on a Khab is so horrible (something like 7.7 km, I think) that it's a waste of time.  It STILL couldn't stealth torp.  And it would still get spotted by just about any reasonably stealthy DD by a full kilometer or 2.  Furthermore and possibly more importantly, a Khab that uses the conceal module gives up steering mod 3, which is the only thing (combined with steering mod 2) that allows the Khab to not handle like a battleship.  The Groz, OTOH, can be competitively stealthy with a full conceal build, so I use it.

 

Moving on...

I really, really wish that the devs would take a much closer look at a few things here.  I think that it would be a Good Thing(tm) for all destroyers to be competitive when it came to capping.  This would require that all DDs have competitive concealments.  Not equal, but close enough to be competitive.  Competitive as in they wouldn't get outspotted by a couple of kilometers even with full concealment builds.

The problem here is that the devs are trying to force  national flavor onto DDs and IMO that is competing with good gameplay for all DDs in this regard.  I think, and it's just my own opinion, that it would be good if all DDs could be competitive cappers.  But if you don't have a competitive concealment, you can't be a competitive capper IMO.  Furthermore, a DD like the Khab, even if could get its concealment down to a competitive level with a full conceal build, would still be at a massive disadvantage with its absolutely horrible agility when it doesn't use steering mod 3.  Also, many Russian style DDs and IJN DDs have horrible gun traverses, which also make them less than competitive cappers.

On top of this, we have a couple of battle modes, Domination and Epicenter, where capping is extremely important to your team's ability to win.  But if you end up with a number of uncompetitive capping DDs on your team vs. a team with very competitive cappers, you're screwed.

I think that the best way to get players of all DD classes to be willing to be cappers is to make all DDs competitive at capping.  And that requires some changes, like reductions in concealment and turret traverses to a number of DD classes.  Also, certain Russian DDs would need to be more agile when they're using a full conceal build (as part of being concealment competitive).  On some of those Russian DDs, would this require offsetting changes for the sake of balance?  Possibly. 

Would this make all DDs play the same?  No, but they would play more similarly than they do today.  But at the same time, it would allow all DD classes to be able to be competitive cappers without their players knowing that they'd be at a massive disadvantage for trying to help out on caps.  And right now, for some DDs, the disadvantages are so massive that they simply won't get near a cap.  About the best you can sometimes hope for is that a Khab (for example) will hang around semi-close to a cap to support a far stealthier DD.   But wouldn't it be nice if the Khab player felt comfortable enough to join that other DD on cap and compete for the cap?

 

Anyways, just some ideas on the larger topic of concealment, DDs, and capping.

 

i do agree with most parts of your statement. russian dd's should have their concealment lowered a little. 10km detection on a dd is just.... w t f... but there should be a little trade off to that since khab kiev are REALLY fast. but yeh i kinda do agree with you. khab vs IJN dd's are just nasty.... if im not running CE on my khaba kagero can out spot me from 5km and easily torp me... like really wg.. but im not sure im the right person you should be writing this to. i dont really have any power with WG. im just a regular player. however if you mention this to @Pigeon_of_War , @Radar_X, @SuperNikoPower, @Sub_Octavian im sure they will help you

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Soviet DDs are just CLs. I don't flame them when they don't cap, but it's just like, why even play them in the first place. You're taking up the slot where an actual DD that can contest caps could be.

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6 minutes ago, RiverTheIdiot said:

i do agree with most parts of your statement. russian dd's should have their concealment lowered a little. 10km detection on a dd is just.... w t f... but there should be a little trade off to that since khab kiev are REALLY fast. but yeh i kinda do agree with you. khab vs IJN dd's are just nasty.... if im not running CE on my khaba kagero can out spot me from 5km and easily torp me... like really wg.. but im not sure im the right person you should be writing this to. i dont really have any power with WG. im just a regular player. however if you mention this to @Pigeon_of_War , @Radar_X, @SuperNikoPower, @Sub_Octavian im sure they will help you

Oh, I wasn't expecting you to do anything, River.  I was just writing about something that's been on my mind.

And ya know, that all that great speed on the Khab and Kiev, etc. can have its negatives too.  Even if your agility is good, when you're moving along at 45 kts or so, it can be really hard to make quick hard turns, and quite often you'll just run headlong into those torpedoes no matter what you do.

 

I was also think about this.  The thing with the Khab is that making any changes to it might be hard, even if they were completely willing.  Why?  Because the Grozovoi exists as more of a gunboat/torp boat hybrid.  So where does that leave making changes to the Khab if one wanted to make it a better, more competitive cap contender without it being OP as all ... heck?  All other nations have a single tier 10 DD, so any changes to them don't have to worry about turning them into the "other" tier 10 DD for their nation, since there aren't any.  But with the Khab, they have to worry about not turning the Khab into another flavor of the Groz.   And I don't rightly know what could be done to the Khab to make it not be OP as a cap contester while allowing to be a competent cap contester.  Give it a somewhat lower rate of fire and give it somewhat better torps?  Oops, that might make it feel too much like a Grozovoi.  :cap_hmm:

 

 

 

 

3 minutes ago, goldeagle1123 said:

Soviet DDs are just CLs. I don't flame them when they don't cap, but it's just like, why even play them in the first place. You're taking up the slot where an actual DD that can contest caps could be.

goldeagle, this is why I wrote the above post suggesting that all DDs should be adjusted to make them competitive cappers.  I won't say that all Soviet DDs are "just CLs".  Some aren't.  I don't see the Ognevoi like that.  Nor do I see the Grozovoi like that.  And personally, I wish that they'd tweak the Udaloi to be more of a torp DD and less of a gunboat, i.e. more along the lines of the Ognevoi and Grozovoi.

As for why play them?  Because the gunboats like the Kiev and Khab in their current state can be very fun to play.  But yes, they make terrible cap contesters, which is why I wrote the previous post.

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