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Miadous

Came back to game to find my Neptune turned garbage

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So a few months ago before I quit playing, I was enjoying and almost done with the RN cruiser line. My brother and I came back to the game to find these big smoke changes. I was consistently top 3 in points on my team in the Neptune before the smoke nerf. I have yet to have a good game since returning. Neptune has been hit way too hard by this smoke nerf. The boat can barely hit anything at 10km, but now it's detected at 6.6km in smoke. Why? It usually results in an instant delete since tier 9 is always tier 10 matches. I wasn't happy to find my Kutuzov pooped on either. I mean it has 152mm guns and now can be seen in smoke at 7.7km. How does that make sense? DD's don't have to get close at all and boom, you're gone from their BB pals 20km away. I am more angry about the Neptune though because it has to get so close to the enemy to do ANYTHING, and I'm so close to the Minotaur, but not sure if I even want to spend that kind of credits now. I'm aware it has been a while since the smoke nerf and all of this has probably been said many times by now, but has Wargaming said anything about it? It looks like they need to help the RN cruisers in some way since they crapped on them, Neptune the hardest.  

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The RN cruisers still pack more than a fight. if you can't adapt to the new changes that's your problem not the game's. Also Rn smoke spam is still a huge pain in the :etc_swear: for newer players who don't know how to track shots in smoke!

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You have to learn (relearn?) how to shoot things at a longer range.  BB's got hit much harder with this 'Smoke Nerf.' as they are now spotted across the map, when they shoot their main guns.  On the other hand, you can make a much longer smoke screen to shoot from inside by starting smoke from full speed ahead... (yes, you need to "crash back" on your throttles to get this.)  All this does is make you have to sit back behind the BB line so that you don't get swatted.  OR learn how to run radar..... which makes you a GREAT DD hunter.

  Also, when you are out of smoke, just don't shoot... spot a bit, and get set up for your next shoot.

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37 minutes ago, Miadous said:

So a few months ago before I quit playing,

....

It looks like they need to help the RN cruisers in some way since they crapped on them, Neptune the hardest.  

 

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So, since you can't just camp in smoke and shoot things with impunity, now the ship itself is somehow garbage. You abused a mechanic of the game, and they took it away, so now you have to actually use skill to get your scores. Your complaint shows that you don't have that skill. So, the problem isn't the ship, the problem lies entirely with you.

 

We were never meant to just sit in smoke and pewpew away. Oh, and if you can't hit anything over 10km away, that problem lies entirely with you, too.

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16 minutes ago, xDiaboliquex said:

...You abused a mechanic of the game, and they took it away ... Oh, and if you can't hit anything over 10km away, that problem lies entirely with you, too.

And they didn't even take away the mechanic, just made it a little more challenging to use.  The Neptune captains I run into have no problem pummeling me with the death of a thousand AP cuts at ranges well over 10km.

I'm sure the OP is simply a bit frustrated.  It takes some adjustment getting used to changes like these.  Doing it while also knocking off the rust from a few months away from the game, well, I'd be frustrated too.

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1 hour ago, kerensky914 said:

And they didn't even take away the mechanic, just made it a little more challenging to use.  The Neptune captains I run into have no problem pummeling me with the death of a thousand AP cuts at ranges well over 10km.

I'm sure the OP is simply a bit frustrated.  It takes some adjustment getting used to changes like these.  Doing it while also knocking off the rust from a few months away from the game, well, I'd be frustrated too.

Oh, I understand he's frustrated. I get frustrated quite easily, and quite often, when I don't do as well as I feel I should in a game. And, honestly, at times I've blamed the game, too. I had to learn the common factor isn't the game, it's me.

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3 hours ago, SoftAndCute said:

 

This video is before the smoke nerfs. If it was after the smoke nerfs, he's dead 2 minutes into the video.

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You’re just going to have to adjust your tactics. To be honest, if you’re smoking up that close to somebody you’ve been spotted and should be taking fire. Also, when somebody gets that close when you’re in smoke you probably already have torps inbound or getting illuminated by radar.

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It does take some getting used to, and the Neptune is, by far, getting the short end of the stick with the detection range.

It really should be 5.6, not 6.6.  It's completely out-of-line with the rest of the RN CL smoke ranges, and it does show.

 

I've personally adapted to the change quite easily, but the Neptune is an exception. The current smoke detection range, combined with the large size and atrocious handling, make the Neptune pretty much a one-trick pony:  it sits behind island or in it's smoke and shoot at stuff 10km+ away.  That's really what it does.

The Neptune really should get a smoke firing buff back down to where all the other RN CLs have it.

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On 1/24/2018 at 9:25 PM, EAnybody said:

It does take some getting used to, and the Neptune is, by far, getting the short end of the stick with the detection range.

It really should be 5.6, not 6.6.  It's completely out-of-line with the rest of the RN CL smoke ranges, and it does show.

The smoke firing detection range correlates to the ship's base detection range, which is why it has got shafted so much by the smoke firing nerf. It would require a base detection range buff for it to get a smoke detection range buff.

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5 hours ago, Noble_Taipan said:

The smoke firing detection range correlates to the ship's base detection range, which is why it has got shafted so much by the smoke firing nerf. It would require a base detection range buff for it to get a smoke detection range buff.

Well... not so much.  There' several variables going on in there, not the least are gun caliber and ship class and national flavor and probably the biggest: programmer bias.

It's a weak correlation to base detection - for instance, notice that the Neptune's base detection range is 13.2, while the Mogami's is 12.6, yet they have 6.6 and 6.8 smoke firing detection, respectively, despite having similar guns. The Shchors and Chappy are nearly the same as the Neptune, but then there's the Baltimore, the Ibuki, etc all as counterexamples.

 

Honestly, at this point, I'm pretty darned sure this is NOT a calculated amount, but a per-ship variable. That means it can be tweaked for each ship. Someone may have run some formulae when initially populating that value, but it's arbitrary enough that I see no reason that it has to be tied to the ship's concealment range.  It would make no software engineering sense for the smoke firing detection range to have to be a calculated number by the code - putting it in the ship's stat's table would be so much more efficient and easy that there's no reason not to do it that way, and if it's done that way, then it's independently tweakable.

 

And of course, that brings up another point: the base concealment range of the Neptune is just STUPID.  Being a larger ship than the Fiji/Edinburgh, it certainly should go up. But it's equal size to the Minotaur, yet has almost a 2km (15%) higher detection?  

Frankly, the Minotaur has too small a detection (it's less than the T8 Edinburgh, despite being significantly larger in all respects), and the Neptune too big.   I'd change the former from 11.5 to 12.0, and the latter from 13.2 to 12.4

Edited by EAnybody

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The smoke nerf's hindered the Neptune the most but its still one great vessel for its tier.

RN CLs is always about position. Place yourself on the map with an island on a flank when you deploy smoke (where you can) and then farm damage up from 10-14 km easily. More so if accommodating BBs sail broadside to you.

You have to be very careful of your surrounding and have that exit (island coverage) when being shot at or spotted. I know its not always possible as you need to charge or leave if pushed by greater numbers, but the early planning in a battle can make the Neptune OP.

Its still only of my favourite tiers with over 100 games in it and I still secure a 67 percent victory in the vessel. Give it some more practice and you will like it again.

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