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Wye_So_Serious

Let me get this straight...

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Two powerful cruisers, arguably somewhat over-powered for their tier, not good for the game and must be removed from shop and tech tree purchase.

Sister ship of the battleship with biggest guns in the game (the games yardstick with respect to gun size) slightly nerfed and dropped a tier: that's not a problem.

Got it.  :fish_palm:

 

 

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What exactly is so OP or bad about Musashi at 9 besides a little higher alpha damage per shell than the other BBs at 9? Not allowed to say LOLpen/overmatch because 16inch guns that tier 7 BBs already see can already overmatch all the bows of the tier 7 BBs.

Musashi has an easy to hit cit that’s the size of California and almost no AA. So what’s so bad? So again, with the exception of slightly higher alpha, not really any worse than the tier 9 BBs that 7s already see.

Edited by renegadestatuz
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Musashi will not be easily Citadeled unless its flat broadside at under ~8-10 km. No cruisers below T9/10 and most T7 BBs will have trouble getting through 410mm + some angle. It is not like the Yamato vs Montana - lower tier ships need to close to distances where the Musashi's guns will deal equal damage back. 

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Haven't you heard? Musashi is pointless, useless and not worth it. This is the expert opinion of noisy forumdwellers who have zero experience with the ship.

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I never said anything about the T7 MM.

It's just that, to me, it appears WG is creating the same issue here that they did with Kutuzov and Belfast.

Maybe it's intentional.

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8 minutes ago, renegadestatuz said:

 Not allowed to say LOLpen/overmatch because 16inch guns that tier 7 BBs already see can already overmatch all the bows of the tier 7 BBs.

 

You know you sound like a moron when you say that right?

Can any T9's Overmatch other T9's? Or T8's? or T10's? How about comparing the Musashi to the Izumo, the tree IJN T9 BB? As I have said elsewhere: the Missouri is a slightly buffed T9 AT T9, while the Musashi is a slightly nerfed T10, AT T9. Comparing it to Izumo and you see the Musashi is a PTW beast. It will uptier better than any T9 BB, and can bull *any* ship it encounters, especially those at it's own tier, which the Izumo cannot.

Edited by _RC1138
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22 minutes ago, hofmannsc said:

Two powerful cruisers, arguably somewhat over-powered for their tier, not good for the game and must be removed from shop and tech tree purchase.

Sister ship of the battleship with biggest guns in the game (the games yardstick with respect to gun size) slightly nerfed and dropped a tier: that's not a problem.

Got it.  :fish_palm:

 

 

Because Albert and Nikolai are still in the game for sale.

OHWAITAMINUTE

Take your class whinging somewhere else. 

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97300 HP, overmatches 32mm, outranges most T10s and really doesn't lose accuracy to anything besides the Yamato. 

Seems fair and balanced to me. 

The only way you are losing to a BB is if you park broadside at 8 KM. You even have a 57% torpedo belt for crying out loud!

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2 minutes ago, _RC1138 said:

You know you sound like a moron when you say that right?

Can any T9's Overmatch other T9's? Or T8's? or T10's? How about comparing the Musashi to the Izumo, the tree IJN T9 BB? As I have said elsewhere: the Missouri is a slightly buffed T9 AT T9, while the Musashi is a slightly nerfed T10, AT T9. Comparing it to Izumo and you see the Musashi is a PTW beast.

I said that because most people I’ve seen who have complained about Musashi being at tier 9 complained because they said it’s not fair to the tier 7s because of the overmatch if the 18.1s. 

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Just now, SkaerKrow said:

Because Albert and Nikolai are still in the game for sale.

OHWAITAMINUTE

Take your class whinging somewhere else. 

Ok that makes an even better point. Nikolai was wrong tiered as was Albert.

Both subsequently removed. So let's do it again it went so spectacularly.

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7 minutes ago, renegadestatuz said:

I said that because most people I’ve seen who have complained about Musashi being at tier 9 complained because they said it’s not fair to the tier 7s because of the overmatch if the 18.1s. 

Musashi is unfair because it can overmatch other Tier 9's. That is no small thing. Moreover when comparing it 1:1 with Izumo, which is what you should do (you shouldn't compare it to the Yamato since that's the Tier 10, and, well, that would be telling wouldnt it?) you see how overpowered, for T9, the Musashi is. It kept its T10 health, its T10 guns, its T10 reload which is the biggest [edited] in all of this, all for a trade in AA (which the Izumos and Yamatos is crapanyway), slightly worse accuracy, which from videos doesn't seem to cause much issue, and for slightly worse secondaries than the YAMATO but about equal to the Izumo's. So looking at it to Izumo: It's got better health, better armor, better guns and bigger ones (in the way that counts too) and better secondaries. Now look at the Missouri vs. the Iowa: it has Radar instead of a floatplane... that's it really. THATS the problem with the Musashi, it trades little to be dropped a tier and vastly outclasses the tree Ship of it's own nation (to say nothing of others).

Edited by _RC1138
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2 minutes ago, Lert said:

Haven't you heard? Musashi is pointless, useless and not worth it.

So the 725k I have saved so far isn't worth it?  

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14 minutes ago, _RC1138 said:

You know you sound like a moron when you say that right?

Can any T9's Overmatch other T9's? Or T8's? or T10's? How about comparing the Musashi to the Izumo, the tree IJN T9 BB? As I have said elsewhere: the Missouri is a slightly buffed T9 AT T9, while the Musashi is a slightly nerfed T10, AT T9. Comparing it to Izumo and you see the Musashi is a PTW beast. It will uptier better than any T9 BB, and can bull *any* ship it encounters, especially those at it's own tier, which the Izumo cannot.

How many tier 8s, 9s, and 10s don't encounter Yamato already?

 

Hmm.

 

it's rather telling that you can't seem to parse "These ships already encounter, deal with, have experience against, and are balanced to encounter 46cm guns"

Edited by AraAragami

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3 minutes ago, _ECSO_Sgt_088 said:

So the 725k I have saved so far isn't worth it?  

According to all the keyboard warriors on the forum, nope. Musashi is worthless, useless, get Missouri instead, such a better ship, vastly superior, etc etc.

Or wait until proper reviews are out from people who have actually driven it and decide for yourself. Like this one:

 

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Just now, AraAragami said:

How many tier 8s, 9s, and 10s don't encounter Yamato already?

 

Hmm.

This is an incredibly dumb argument. For one, you can't have it both ways: either T6's suck because they constantly see T8's (and thus T8's get top tier) or T6 is fine because it doesn't.

And T8's see T9's FAR more often because of the sheer volume of T7's that play.

For two, your argument boils down to: It's overpowered perhaps, but they already see ANOTHER overpowered ship so what difference does it make to pile on?

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6 minutes ago, Lert said:

According to all the loudmouths on the forum, nope. Musashi is worthless, useless, get Missouri instead, such a better ship, vastly superior, etc etc.

Or wait until proper reviews are out from people who have actually driven it and decide for yourself. Like this one:

 

I think most who have been trying to make a decision don't have the free XP to throw about so have been comparing the 2 for best value.

The consensus is the Missouri is better (that was from YouTube players who fought in both). Just because people have said this, doesn't categorize them as loud mouths (especially on a forum where there is technically no volume, just opinions). Categorizing them as loud mouths only shows you don't particularly agree with them; which is your prerogative lol.

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13 minutes ago, _RC1138 said:

This is an incredibly dumb argument. For one, you can't have it both ways: either T6's suck because they constantly see T8's (and thus T8's get top tier) or T6 is fine because it doesn't.

And T8's see T9's FAR more often because of the sheer volume of T7's that play.

For two, your argument boils down to: It's overpowered perhaps, but they already see ANOTHER overpowered ship so what difference does it make to pile on?

For one: 4 out of 5 games last night in tier 8 ships put me vs tier 10. The 5th one put me vs tier 6. This is a small taste of all the data gathered that indicates tier 8s see tier 10s far more often than tier 9s-- This is actually scientifically collected and proven but since you'll ignore the evidence that's inconvenient for your position, I won't bother sharing it.

 

For two: Your second argument assumes Yamato is overpowered and applies the same label to Musashi. When Yamato is actually being outperformed in tier 10 these days by Kurfurst and Conqueror. So Yamato is OP but these two aren't? Double standards, much?

Edited by AraAragami
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I don't have the free XP yet. I have about half but will collect it when I do and I don't care what anybody says.

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5 minutes ago, _WaveRider_ said:

The consensus is the Missouri is better (that was from YouTube players who fought in both). Just because people have said this, doesn't categorize them as loud mouths

Blindly coming to said opinions and shoving them down people's throats in every thread even remotely related to Musashi does, though. Basing their opinions on incomplete, out dated and patently false information and still acting like their opinion is the only one that counts, does. Openly arguing with and insulting any who hold a different opinion or even just cautions people to wait until the ship's stats are set in stone, does.

No I'm not saying that 'everyone' did that. But it happened. And those I call loudmouths, on the forum. In my mind, I have entirely less pleasant names for them.

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Just now, AraAragami said:

For one: 4 out of 5 games last night in tier 8 ships put me vs tier 10. The 5th one put me vs tier 6. This is a small taste of all the data gathered that indicates tier 8s see tier 10s far more often than tier 9s-- This is actually scientifically collected and proven but since you'll ignore the evidence that's inconvenient for your position, I won't bother sharing it.

I too have kept track, and while anecdotal evidence is shite, you are wrong; I found I was mid tiered against T9's with T7's low far more often (~48%) than top or bottom tiered. And regardless, it doesn't matter because NOW there will be another overmatch capable ship in the game, something we really didn't need another one of. Even if the Musashi was at T10, I would still rebuke it because we DONT NEED another Overmatch capable ship.

3 minutes ago, AraAragami said:

For two: Your second argument assumes Yamato is overpowered and applies the same label to Musashi. When Yamato is actually being outperformed in tier 10 these days by Kurfurst and Conqueror.

Bad analysis:

Comparing a user of equal skills (or the same user, for better testing) the Yamato will always win out, and they do, and Wargaming has SPOKEN of this in Q/A's. When people complained that the Conq was overpowered Sub_Oct commented that by looking at the top and bottom T10 players, and viewing THEIR stats against themselves, in the Conq and in the Yamato, the Conqueror was actually LOWER performing than the Yamato. The only rational reason that the Conq and Kurry overperform in the masses is they are idiot proof ships: Conq can burn down anything (but doesn't get kills and that's the key thing) and the Kurfurst is all but immortal to all but Torps. Conversly the Montana, which is far less idiot proof, doesn't perform as well, and Yamato get's eaten alive by fanboys who shouldn't be driving it. But SAME skilled players across the T10 BB's nearly always perform BETTER in the Yamato and Montana, which is interesting and somewhat expected.

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3 minutes ago, Lert said:

Blindly coming to said opinions and shoving them down people's throats in every thread even remotely related to Musashi does, though. Basing their opinions on incomplete, out dated and patently false information and still acting like their opinion is the only one that counts, does. Openly arguing with and insulting any who hold a different opinion or even just cautions people to wait until the ship's stats are set in stone, does.

No I'm not saying that 'everyone' did that. But it happened. And those I call loudmouths, on the forum. In my mind, I have entirely less pleasant names for them.

There are many who act as though only their opinions count, it's the forums. But again, to say they have all come to the forums 'blindly' shoving their opinions down peoples throats in every thread. Were there not those that 'as blindly' argued the other way?

Openly arguing and insulting - aren't you doing that with the comments you have made in this very thread?

I have no particular favourite in either of them; I hope those that spend the XP get the value they are hoping for.

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Frankly I was always in the "Musashi as an alt-hull for Yamato that changes the name plate" camp, but this is what WG decided to do because they can charge more for it.

 

It's not changing, so you're going to have to just accept it, deal with it, and...What is it cruiser mains always tell destroyer players when radar comes up?

 

Oh yeah.

 

Adapt and overcome.

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52 minutes ago, MaxL_1023 said:

VMusashi will not be easily Citadeled unless its flat broadside at under ~8-10 km. No cruisers below T9/10 and most T7 BBs will have trouble getting through 410mm + some angle. It is not like the Yamato vs Montana - lower tier ships need to close to distances where the Musashi's guns will deal equal damage back. 

Musashi will have that same octagonal citadel that is easily penned from the front even when angled that Yamato does. Citadeled plenty of Yamato's at max range with NC, Bismarck, and Amagi. Doubt the T7's will have much trouble with Musashi (citadels is what I mean).  At least Colorado and Nagato anyway. Gneiseanu should be ok too, if you can actually hit anything with those 6 wonky guns LOL, as believe it is same guns as Bismarck/Tirpitz. Scharn, Hood, and KGV/DOY will have issues so go HE.

Edited by AdmiralThunder

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