Jump to content
You need to play a total of 10 battles to post in this section.
Pigeon_of_War

Pigeon's Weekly Thought Jan 16th, 2018

59 comments in this topic

Recommended Posts

3,548
[SYN]
Members
15,394 posts
12,569 battles

At this point in the game, only players who have invested long hours into grinding 19pt captains have them.

While I think this 19pt captain is kind of like a "reward" system, I also think it is unfair to players who are just picking up the game.

Now, you may think that newbs shouldn't encounter 19pt captains, so long as they don't buy a T7/8 premium, but it's quite normal to encounter 19pt captains in lower tiers, which gives a massive advantage to the person using the 19pt'er. The player behind the ship will also have way more experience on top of the 19pt captain.

The worst offenders, in this regard, are Clemson, Kamikaze R, Gremyaschy, Guilio Cesare, etc. They scale EXTREMELY well with a 19pt'er, where as other ships do not and this throws off lower tier balance quite badly.

Quite frankly, 10pt captains just aren't enough anymore, especially as cruisers and destroyers and I think there is an increasing need to have everyone with 19pt captains all the time.

 

Like, seriously, the captain makes all the difference in your ship's effectiveness, it's rather silly.

Examples:

  • d'Aosta 10pt: pretty useless
  • d'Aosta 14pt: finally getting somewhere
  • stock Fubuki 6pt: utterly useless
  • stock Fubuki 10pt: usable, but still quite awful

 

Oh, and, as for buying a 10pt captain, I have nothing against it

Hell, offer the option to buy a 19pt captain as well.

 

What would be extra nice, is if you could let us brain suck low point captain's XP, because I have like 20 of these 3pt~9pt captains just sitting in my reserves with nothing to captain, because they are useless.

Edited by MrDeaf
  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1,076
[O_O]
[O_O]
Members
3,827 posts
17,147 battles
4 minutes ago, nuttybiscuit said:

Players who are new to the game are lost in confusion as to what they need and don't need to succeed, how many are aware of the importance of 10 pt captains? I have had discussions with players who have thousands of battles, and who seems unaware, for example, of the degree of advantage offered by AirSup and a 10 pt captain over a player without.

And all the threads about how noobs don't have a clue. The need for knowledge is lost on them. Not their fault - they just don't know what they don't know. Selling them 10 pt captains might not do them any favors without a better understanding of what to use them for. That's the hard nut to crack. I am sure a lot come here to 'shoot guns at ships' without trying to understand, much less get better at, the game mechanics.

But it will still be an income stream.

  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
519
[INTEL]
Beta Testers
1,798 posts
5,444 battles

I think it should go more like this:

0 skill point Captain = Free

1 skill point Captain = Credits, dirt cheap

3 skill point Captain = Credits, maybe two or three million

10 skill point Captain = duhblooms ($5 worth, tops)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2,111
[WGA]
Developers
1,125 posts
4,260 battles
1 hour ago, Chaos_EN2 said:

P.S. The reason I am suggesting also credits (and it should be a high amount) for us players who do not have a lot of free cash it would at least give us a chance. 

But you do have a chance...just play the game and get the skills normally. I would highly doubt you would see this option for credits. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1,339
[PVE]
[PVE]
Members
4,202 posts
8,877 battles
1 minute ago, Pigeon_of_War said:

But you do have a chance...just play the game and get the skills normally. I would highly doubt you would see this option for credits. 

Okay thanks

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2,111
[WGA]
Developers
1,125 posts
4,260 battles
54 minutes ago, Khafni said:

I must ask, though, are we devaluing our 19 point captains by selling away 10 pt captains? 

Depends on what your definition of value is.

Is a Missouri less valuable if someone spends doubloons for FreeXp conversion than just FreeXP?

Is a 19 Point Commander less valuable if someone spends doubloons to convert Elite XP over just regular Commander XP?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1,693
[SYN]
[SYN]
Members
3,400 posts
11,490 battles
17 minutes ago, MrDeaf said:

What would be extra nice, is if you could let us brain suck low point captain's XP, because I have like 20 of these 3pt~9pt captains just sitting in my reserves with nothing to captain, because they are useless.

 

This. Many times over.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3,651
[90TH]
[90TH]
Alpha Tester
8,269 posts
9,171 battles
11 minutes ago, Pigeon_of_War said:

But you do have a chance...just play the game and get the skills normally. I would highly doubt you would see this option for credits. 

A chance to be clubbed slightly more efficiently by those who understand and can afford the shortcut of doublons, pay2club is essentially what you are proposing, as another poster pointed out, those who benefit the most will be rerolls. In fairness to your proposal, 10 pt captains are already sold for doublons, as part of premium ship packages. (Which is itself, recognition of how important they are as a threshold to successful gameplay). Still, to my mind this is evidence of race to the bottom developments which seek to bleed players for cash with minimal creative effort, enriching the company coffers, but not enriching gameplay.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2,111
[WGA]
Developers
1,125 posts
4,260 battles
Just now, pikohan said:

 

This. Many times over.

I get the want, but not going to happen. At least not anytime soon.

  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
125
[DARTH]
Members
549 posts
13,064 battles

Having discovered the joys of farming multiple 19 point captains ... once you have the gravy train rolling, the elite captain XP just seems to start to multiply like little XP bunny rabbits.  However, for those just starting who want to spend, I think the 10 point for doubloons, or equivalent might be handy.

However, one *can* already use free XP to level their captains.  It's just expensive.  Would you rather have a Missouri/Musashi/Nelson, or that 10 point captain?

As another posted, allowing purchase/conversion of ship XP to elite captain XP for a somewhat cheaper rate than free XP conversion might be a nice idea.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1,651
[GWG]
[GWG]
Members
6,352 posts

Given the current 25/doubloon FXP exchange -- in US dollars at 3000/purchase quantity

This is the monetary value of how much it would cost me to convert ship XP to Captain skills.

If Elite XP suddenly became available at a different exchange rate - i.e. 50/doubloon, we would see surplus ship XP start to empty out.

And the prices in the table below would drop to attractive levels.

Capt_Price.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1,915
[A-D-F]
Members
1,941 posts
3 hours ago, Pigeon_of_War said:

Hello Captains!

 With the recent forum reorganization, I wanted more directed thoughts and feedback since in the Pigeon's Nest it was getting a bit crowded. You can still send random and constructive ideas to the  Feedback and Thoughts Section, which I still read everyday. That said, every week, likely every Tuesday, I will said a new thread to gather collective ideas from the community based on a thought I read or just randomly had for input. 

So here's this week's thought: Currently you can recruit a zero skill Captain for free, a 1 Skill Captain for a nice chunk of credits, or a 3 skill Captain for doubloons. What would be your thoughts on if there was a rapid step up option to get a 10-skill captain for a lot of doubloons? Would you find this fair? Would you take advantage?  Would you like the option? Perhaps you don't like it at all?

Let me see what you have to say and then I'll throw another one at you next week! 

I would not cough up doubloons, but others might be willing. On a tangent note, I think that a captain's skill point would be an excellent item to drop into a supercontainer.

  • Cool 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4,188
[FOXEH]
Beta Testers
11,844 posts
17,392 battles
1 hour ago, MrDeaf said:

the captain makes all the difference in your ship's effectiveness

Can't argue with this, and a good example would be Most Sucky (Mutsuki) which is a suicide ship until you get a 10 pointer in her to use CE.

1 hour ago, MrDeaf said:

it's quite normal to encounter 19pt captains in lower tiers

As an example, I just finished the 19th point grind on my Yubari Captain, tier 4. HUGE difference.

1 hour ago, Khafni said:

But it will still be an income stream.

I'm thinking the BETTER income stream would be the doubloons required to re-do those Captains skills after they get some knowledge after playing a while and realize they have made some inexperienced choices.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4,188
[FOXEH]
Beta Testers
11,844 posts
17,392 battles
1 minute ago, Doombeagle said:

I think that a captain's skill point

That's a great idea! A supercontainer which gives you 10 points on ANY Captain who isn't already over 9 points. Massively helpful! PLUS 1 @Doombeagle!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2,111
[WGA]
Developers
1,125 posts
4,260 battles
Just now, Umikami said:

I''m thinking the BETTER income stream would be the doubloons required to re-do those Captains skills after they get some knowledge after playing a while and realize they have made some inexperienced choices.

I don't think a subjective skill-blocker for commander skill-point resets is welcome change. It would make people feel pretty bad and would be a strict blocker. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4,188
[FOXEH]
Beta Testers
11,844 posts
17,392 battles
5 minutes ago, Pigeon_of_War said:

I don't think a subjective skill-blocker for commander skill-point resets is welcome change. It would make people feel pretty bad and would be a strict blocker.

You lost me completely; I was talking about WoW making money when players want to re-do their existing Captains skills via doubloons, after they have played the game for a few thousand battles and want different skills. I have no idea where "skill blocker" came from, and have no idea what that would even be. Maybe I'm missing something?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3,548
[SYN]
Members
15,394 posts
12,569 battles
35 minutes ago, Doombeagle said:

I would not cough up doubloons, but others might be willing. On a tangent note, I think that a captain's skill point would be an excellent item to drop into a supercontainer.

I've suggested a one time free captain retraining/reset card that you can get in boxes, in the past.

similar to "Get out of jail for free" card in monopoly.

 

Quite frankly, wows is very unfair when it comes to new players in their first Tier whatever ship.

Players feeling that the game is unfair and frustrating because of it isn't good for population health.

e.g. You get clubbed by a 19pt Kamikaze/Clemson, but you don't even have a 10pt captain to use in those ships, because paywall and/or excessively long grind (especially without premium or CXP boosters).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Alpha Tester
1,219 posts
4,968 battles

I feel like being able to buy a 10 point captain, or clone a 19 point captain, would be dangerously close to pay to win. Having a high point captain is one of the few things left in this game that can't be easily skipped if you chose to spend money on it and it makes such a huge difference in ship performance. This is a slippery slope that I'd rather stay off of.

  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
997
[NDA]
Supertester, Alpha Tester
5,573 posts
4,242 battles

I like the idea. It would be super handy for when high tier premiums are added as the first ship or ship-type for a new nation. Using the Blyskawica as an example, my commander is low-level and currently doesn't have skills like Superintendent, AFT, Concealment Expert, etc. which I think are essentials for high tier destroyers.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
18
[_H2O_]
[_H2O_]
Members
144 posts
6,219 battles

The price may be high but 2 years of playing has only gotten me one 11 point captain and 3 10 point captains out of 75 ships.  It would be another 2 years before I start to see 19 point captains on the roster.  Being able to upgrade the 10 point captains would be worth some gold to me.

As for the core game for Macs, the game quits every time I finish a match.  Upgrade 7 may end my WOWS experience due to program incompatibility.

Astrosaint

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3,548
[SYN]
Members
15,394 posts
12,569 battles
6 hours ago, KingCakeBaby said:

I feel like being able to buy a 10 point captain, or clone a 19 point captain, would be dangerously close to pay to win. Having a high point captain is one of the few things left in this game that can't be easily skipped if you chose to spend money on it and it makes such a huge difference in ship performance. This is a slippery slope that I'd rather stay off of.

Compared to other players, the only advantage you should even have for playing the game a long time is player experience.

It's also part of the reason why the ship balance breaks quite badly on some ships, as they scale way better than others when a 19pt is plugged in

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2,754
[V_KNG]
Beta Testers
11,063 posts

While probably not a true pay to win (p2w) feature, it's rubbing shoulders with pw2. What is the justification for creating a fast-pass to (ahem) victory? Players not sticking around long enough to do the grind? New players not "investing" into the game long-term? What is the real, underlying reason to provide this option? 

"Earning" 19 point commanders, especially with premium time, signal flags and special camo happens easily enough IF you play the game, invest money and in general, make a commitment to the game. If you wanted to do anything to speed that process up, adjust the internal game mechanics to tweak the earned point system. 

Khafni mentioned "cheapening" 19pt commanders and I tend to agree. 

If you allow people to "buy their way" to the top, you'll end up with a lot of disgruntled players who may have the commander points, but not know how to select them nor how to play them. Soon enough, hands will be tossed in the air, "is this all there is?" will be shouted and they will still walk away. 

Players who leave obviously matter to the company as they gave them some serious loot to comeback. Why give them even more "free" paths to victory in an attempt to retain them? Prognostication is - won't work long-term. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[SSN]
Members
302 posts
14,121 battles

We may have gotten spoiled by receiving ships, with 10 pt commanders, in supercomputers and Santa boxes. I would not be opposed to a method of getting to 10or commanders quicker.

I'd like WG to consider providing or allowing players a method to dismiss commanders but putting those earned pts into a 'pool'.  The consolidation of commander skills points might also let the player get to 10 pts quicker.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Members
779 posts
3,829 battles
52 minutes ago, Lancer240 said:

I'd like WG to consider providing or allowing players a method to dismiss commanders but putting those earned pts into a 'pool'.  The consolidation of commander skills points might also let the player get to 10 pts quicker.

I do agree completely.  However, judging from @Pigeon_of_War's response to @pikohan earlier, the probability of this happening looks bleak.  I'm not sure why, but there is a lot I don't get about the business end of on-line gaming.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Members
272 posts
7,762 battles

I just realized I sent this post to the wrong thread. Here's my take:

I was reviewing the Captain Skills Ladder and thinking about how to improve it. I've heard some players saying that certain ships are too hard to use until you reach a particular skill level with the Captain. I thought about how the last Skill revision lowered the number of skill levels from 5 to 4. I was wondering if it would make skill progression less frustrating if the number of Skill Levels was further flattened from 4 to 3 (with 10-11 skills per level). I would group them in the following manner:

Skill Level 1:
Endurance - Priority Target, Preventive Maintenance, <High Alert>
Attack - Expert Loader, Aircraft Servicing Expert
Support - Direction Centre for Catapult Aircraft, Dogfighting Expert, <Smoke Screen Expert>
Versatility - Incoming Fire Alert, Evasive Maneuver

Skill Level 2:
Endurance - Jack of All Trades, <Basics of Survivability>, <Surivability Expert>
Attack - Expert Marksman, Torpedo Acceleration, <Torpedo Armament Expertise>
Support - Expert Rear Gunner, <Basic Firing Training>
Versatility - Adrenaline Rush, Last Stand, <Vigilance>

Skill Level 3:
Endurance - <Manual Fire Control for Secondary Armament>, <Fire Prevention>
Attack - Emergency Takeoff, <Inertial Fuse for HE Shells>, <Air Supremacy>
Support - Superintendent, <Advanced Firing Training>, <Manual Fire Control for AA Armament>
Versatility - Demolition Expert, <Radio Location>, <Concealment Expert>

<Bracketed> skills are level lower in the new setup, but those Level 2 skills aren't used as much or are often considered weaker so i moved them to level 1 to encourage their use. I consider the consolidated Level 2-3 skills to be a wash, with nothing much more powerful than the others at that level. The skills that remained at Level 3 were considered ones that everyone uses or are especially powerful. I think everything is fairly balanced in terms of the usage I see in-game (except maybe a few tweaks needed here and there).

With 19 Skill Points, that allows an additional 1-2 skills to be added to a captain's skill set. If that is too many skills per captian, then the Skill Point Ceiling could be reduced from 19 points to 16 points to keep the number of skills a captain could use to a similar level as is allowed currently. The XP progression could also be revised to make it cost more to get to level 16. For Example:

1st Skill - 1600 XP (1600 XP total)
2nd Skill - 2700 XP (4300 XP total)
3rd Skill - 4200 XP (8500 XP total)
4th Skill - 6500 XP (15000 XP total)
5th Skill - 10000 XP (25000 XP total)
6th Skill - 15000 XP (40000 XP total) <Allows access to the former Level 4 Captain Skills 62000 XP earlier than current tree>
7th Skill - 23000 XP (63000 XP total)
8th Skill - 32000 XP (95000 XP total)
9th Skill - 44000 XP (139000 XP total) <Allows one Level 1, one Level 2, and two Level 3 Skills 44000 XP earlier than current tree>
10th Skill - 58000 XP (197000 XP total)
11th Skill - 74000 XP (271000 XP total)
12th Skill - 94000 XP (365000 XP total)
13th Skill - 117000 XP (482000 XP total)
14th Skill - 142000 XP (624000 XP total)
15th Skill - 172000 XP (796000 XP total)
16th Skill - 204000 XP (1000000 XP total)

This would also allow players to get Elite Captains easier. If this is *too* easy to reach Elite Captain level, then increase the required XP per level by 50%, so players would have to spend 1,500,000 XP to top out (which is still less than what is required to reach level 19 currently). 

I could see advantages for some ship types to be able to acheive certain skills earlier, but not become overpowering too quickly. I can imagine some players will protest that this cheapens the cost of some powerful skills. However, the purpose of the Captain Skill Tree Levels are just to control the amount of time/experience required to access those skills, not to define their arbitrary worth between levels (so long as the skills within each level are balanced so no one skill outweighs the others)

That said, any thoughts on this distribution or the changes? Would any of the skills need to be made better or worse to compensate for their placement in the revised tree?  (I might consider asking for a change to the Torpedo Acceleration range penalty from 20% to 10%.)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×