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NoZoupForYou

Musashi Final Form Commentary - She's a Must Buy now...

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8 minutes ago, Bravo_Zulu_000 said:

I already had 900K+ free xp but I wasn't going to get her because in reality i could free xp the entire IJN BB line and get the Yamoto for pretty close to the 920K. Now with a 30 sec. reload aat 750K, I can see why it might seem to be a good deal. Unfortunately, I wonder if WG was happy to let us believe it was 920K in order to sell more gold for xp conversion during the Chirstmas deals of xp conversion.

Either way, I think I'll wait and see how well early adopters and reviewers do with it before pulling the trigger and spending 750K fxp. 

Not a bad idea.  Get MO now if you don’t have it.

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2 hours ago, Dr_Venture said:

That's fair, but the illusion of safety gives me a little bit of hope...in the Tyler Durden sense. 

 

"Blank faces, calm as Hindu cows...."

Realistically, Tier IX-X CVs are practically extinct.

 

Tier VIII CVs are the last, highest tier where there's any real player activity for this ship type.  Yamato if it faces AA, will deal with Tier VIII aircraft easily, most esp. if the build incorporated BFT, AFT as some do Secondaries Build on her.  I remember playing the old Strike Lexington 0/1/3 and my bomber group getting smashed hard by a lone Yamato to do next to no damage on her.  Tier VIII is the lowest a Tier X expects to see.  So Yamato seeing CVs is very rare.

 

Musashi is a Tier IX.  She will still face the Tier VIII CVs just like any Tier X would.  But her MM range now includes CVs from Tier VII.  Kaga.  Hiryu.  Saipan.  Tier VII CVs actually sees a good amount of action, it's in the VI-VIII range where quite a bit are still played.  Musashi will get to see those Kaga bomber groups and have s--t AA to fend them off.

 

People deride AA as a waste of time.  Then a CV shows up and wrecks them.  Then they come to the boards and complain about their AA doing nothing against bombers.

 

I'm sure the rare chance Musashi has to club Colorado, Pensacola will be enjoyable, but that Tier VII range includes Kaga and her valkyrie attack group.

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2 minutes ago, HazeGrayUnderway said:

I'm sure the rare chance Musashi has to club Colorado, Pensacola will be enjoyable, but that Tier VII range includes Kaga and her valkyrie attack group.

:Smile_izmena:INCOMING!!!!:Smile_izmena:

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4 minutes ago, HazeGrayUnderway said:

Realistically, Tier IX-X CVs are practically extinct.

 

Tier VIII CVs are the last, highest tier where there's any real player activity for this ship type.  Yamato if it faces AA, will deal with Tier VIII aircraft easily, most esp. if the build incorporated BFT, AFT as some do Secondaries Build on her.  I remember playing the old Strike Lexington 0/1/3 and my bomber group getting smashed hard by a lone Yamato to do next to no damage on her.  Tier VIII is the lowest a Tier X expects to see.  So Yamato seeing CVs is very rare.

 

Musashi is a Tier IX.  She will still face the Tier VIII CVs just like any Tier X would.  But her MM range now includes CVs from Tier VII.  Kaga.  Hiryu.  Saipan.  Tier VII CVs actually sees a good amount of action, it's in the VI-VIII range where quite a bit are still played.  Musashi will get to see those Kaga bomber groups and have s--t AA to fend them off.

 

People deride AA as a waste of time.  Then a CV shows up and wrecks them.  Then they come to the boards and complain about their AA doing nothing against bombers.

 

I'm sure the rare chance Musashi has to club Colorado, Pensacola will be enjoyable, but that Tier VII range includes Kaga and her valkyrie attack group.

Likely because of what it takes to get a stock CV XP grind done can be murder unless you are filling to use Free XP to fully upgrade the CV at tiers IX-X, tier 

Plus the higher the tier of CV it seems the worse the concealment values get as well.

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4 minutes ago, Admiral_Thrawn_1 said:

Likely because of what it takes to get a stock CV XP grind done can be murder unless you are filling to use Free XP to fully upgrade the CV at tiers IX-X, tier 

Plus the higher the tier of CV it seems the worse the concealment values get as well.

The last time Tier IX-X CVs were seeing a lot of action was in the first few months after WoWS released in late summer to fall 2015.  Ever since then the last bastion of CV play was cut off at VIII.

 

CV detection range suffers only really with specific USN CVs.  Lexington, Midway have absolutely HORRIBLE detection ranges.  There's a reason why they sail so far back.  They're spotted so easily that if they push up and get spotted, they eat gunfire.  Essex has so-so detection range.  IJN CVs have Cruiser Levels of detection ranges.  Those are the ones that can play aggressively forward.

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9 minutes ago, HazeGrayUnderway said:

The last time Tier IX-X CVs were seeing a lot of action was in the first few months after WoWS released in late summer to fall 2015.  Ever since then the last bastion of CV play was cut off at VIII.

 

CV detection range suffers only really with specific USN CVs.  Lexington, Midway have absolutely HORRIBLE detection ranges.  There's a reason why they sail so far back.  They're spotted so easily that if they push up and get spotted, they eat gunfire.  Essex has so-so detection range.  IJN CVs have Cruiser Levels of detection ranges.  Those are the ones that can play aggressively forward.

Have been seeing some Midways in battles just a couple days ago, they were harassing my poor Missour which is not 100% fully upgraded in AA Captain skills yet lol.

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43 minutes ago, thegamefilmguruman said:

The wiki disagrees with you:
Montana DP: 157 DPS, 40mm: 318 DPS 
While the DP is longer ranged, it's half the power of the 40mm unless you take MFAA, in which case it's more or less the same DPS for both (DP are doubled). The numbers are very similar for Iowa/Missouri. Difference in range is 1.5km stock (3.5 vs 5km-full spec is 7.2 vs 5km). Of course, there're are also 20mms for close up, but we won't count those.  You could argue that the DP are more effective due to the longer time spent in the aura, but even then.  The only way DP makes up 50% is with MFAA.
 

 

Again your still wrong. Because your hugely understating the range advantage. Even vs DB's it makes DP worth >40% more. Vs TB the ratio is far higher due to the inherent standoff. Vs TB's it's  well over twice as effective. That means even without MCFAA it outperforms the 40mm. DPS is largely irrelevant, rnage is the real thing that matter, MCFAA helps but not as much as you';d think as rnage extension reduce the inherent engagement time advantage of the DP's better rnage so it puts things almost back to how they where before rnage extensions.

 

Still working on the sheet modifications, has turned out to be much harder than i would have liked to do :(. 

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30 minutes ago, HazeGrayUnderway said:

Realistically, Tier IX-X CVs are practically extinct.

 

Tier VIII CVs are the last, highest tier where there's any real player activity for this ship type.  Yamato if it faces AA, will deal with Tier VIII aircraft easily, most esp. if the build incorporated BFT, AFT as some do Secondaries Build on her.  I remember playing the old Strike Lexington 0/1/3 and my bomber group getting smashed hard by a lone Yamato to do next to no damage on her.  Tier VIII is the lowest a Tier X expects to see.  So Yamato seeing CVs is very rare.

 

Musashi is a Tier IX.  She will still face the Tier VIII CVs just like any Tier X would.  But her MM range now includes CVs from Tier VII.  Kaga.  Hiryu.  Saipan.  Tier VII CVs actually sees a good amount of action, it's in the VI-VIII range where quite a bit are still played.  Musashi will get to see those Kaga bomber groups and have s--t AA to fend them off.

 

People deride AA as a waste of time.  Then a CV shows up and wrecks them.  Then they come to the boards and complain about their AA doing nothing against bombers.

 

I'm sure the rare chance Musashi has to club Colorado, Pensacola will be enjoyable, but that Tier VII range includes Kaga and her valkyrie attack group.

To be fair, it's these guys that are gonna be the great satan of Musashi....

 

gz.jpg

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1 minute ago, Carl said:

 

Again your still wrong. Because your hugely understating the range advantage. Even vs DB's it makes DP worth >40% more. Vs TB the ratio is far higher due to the inherent standoff. Vs TB's it's  well over twice as effective. That means even without MCFAA it outperforms the 40mm. DPS is largely irrelevant, rnage is the real thing that matter, MCFAA helps but not as much as you';d think as rnage extension reduce the inherent engagement time advantage of the DP's better rnage so it puts things almost back to how they where before rnage extensions.

 

Still working on the sheet modifications, has turned out to be much harder than i would have liked to do :(. 

Fair enough.  I may indeed be underestimating the effect of range. I think some charts have already been made which you can use, though, like this one from Mouse:
BPto9YZ.png

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If you check the link in my sig you can check an earlier version of the sheet i'm currently modifying. The new one with this added should be available in the next week all being well. I want to make a "how to use this" video now that i've  got the internet to manage big uploads, (i went from 1.3meg download, 0.12 upload to 300 meg download, 20 meg upload) before i put it up. The old version still has the raw numbers if you scroll along.

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4 minutes ago, Carl said:

If you check the link in my sig you can check an earlier version of the sheet i'm currently modifying. The new one with this added should be available in the next week all being well. I want to make a "how to use this" video now that i've  got the internet to manage big uploads, (i went from 1.3meg download, 0.12 upload to 300 meg download, 20 meg upload) before i put it up. The old version still has the raw numbers if you scroll along.

I just might after work.  Thanks!

Edited by thegamefilmguruman

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This doesn't change the fact it's a gimped Yamato that will almost always be in a t10 game.

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23 minutes ago, Dr_Venture said:

To be fair, it's these guys that are gonna be the great satan of Musashi....

 

gz.jpg

Any CV will be a danger to Musashi.  IJN BBs however are more decent off against AP bombs than Ze Germans, who built for a war that was long since past and their ships reflect it. IJN, USN had more modern thinking in their designs instead of obsolete WWI ideals.

2 minutes ago, Fog_Battleship_NCarolina said:

This doesn't change the fact it's a gimped Yamato that will almost always be in a t10 game.

That is an inescapable truth.

Edited by HazeGrayUnderway

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3 minutes ago, Fog_Battleship_NCarolina said:

This doesn't change the fact it's a gimped Yamato that will almost always be in a t10 game.

Exactly why I wont buy it. 

Why get a tier ten ship when you can't even be the top of the pile.

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11 minutes ago, Dr_Venture said:

Exactly why I wont buy it. 

Why get a tier ten ship when you can't even be the top of the pile.

To be fair, you guys are acting like it’s you alone against an entire team...  stick close to your other BBs, your AA platforms and play smart.  Don’t think of it as a gimped T10 in a T10 match.  It’s more of a powerful T9 in a T10.  It can hang perfectly fine. Especially if you push Instead of trying to snipe 20km away.

Edited by NoZoupForYou

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Just now, NoZoupForYou said:

Especially if you push I stead of trying to snipe 20km away.

"but that will scratch my paint!!!" -every BBabie.

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4 minutes ago, NoZoupForYou said:

To be fair, you guys are acting like it’s you alone against an entire team...  stick close to your other BBs, your AA platforms and play smart.  Don’t think of it as a gimped T10 in a T10 match.  It’s more of a powerful T9 in a T10.  It can hang perfectly fine. Especially if you push Instead of trying to snipe 20km away.

Precisely. By many people in this thread's logic, one shouldn't play Alabama because it's not as good as Iowa, has similar armament and playstyle, and will see T9's regularly.

Edited by thegamefilmguruman
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4 hours ago, LittleWhiteMouse said:

Whew.  A lot of work going into this review, lemme tell you...

And that Dear Mouse is but one of the myriad reasons we all love you here! :cap_like:

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20 minutes ago, NoZoupForYou said:

To be fair, you guys are acting like it’s you alone against an entire team...  stick close to your other BBs, your AA platforms and play smart.  Don’t think of it as a gimped T10 in a T10 match.  It’s more of a powerful T9 in a T10.  It can hang perfectly fine. Especially if you push Instead of trying to snipe 20km away.

It's not the issue of it being weak. It's the fact you're bring a gimped t10 at t9 to t10 games. Why would you bring this over a Yamato. Most people are going to pay money to convert xp to get this ship, why not just by the premium camo for Yamato so you get the premium xp and credit bonus. 

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20 minutes ago, thegamefilmguruman said:

Precisely. By many people in this thread's logic, one shouldn't play Alabama because it's not as good as Iowa, has similar armament and playstyle, and will see T9's regularly.

Alabama has better armor and better torp protection than iowa. It also regularly fights tier 6s and 7s. News flash, 18 inch guns offer no benefit overmatching t7 bbs and cruisers when compared to any gun 380mm and larger. That hp advantage isn't going to mean much when you have the worst citadel protection of any battleship t8+

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26 minutes ago, NoZoupForYou said:

To be fair, you guys are acting like it’s you alone against an entire team...  stick close to your other BBs, your AA platforms and play smart.  Don’t think of it as a gimped T10 in a T10 match.  It’s more of a powerful T9 in a T10.  It can hang perfectly fine. Especially if you push Instead of trying to snipe 20km away.

May I suggest you step out of Forum and into the  games happening today since it is part of a long weekend still ... 

Lol you have to be ready to work as a team and be supportive when you get handed teams that are like that, but on the other hand you also need to be ready to have your team run off in all directions and leave you all alone as soon as any kind of enemy forces are spotted lol.

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1 minute ago, Admiral_Thrawn_1 said:

May I suggest you step out of Forum and into the  games happening today since it is part of a long weekend still ... 

Lol you have to be ready to work as a team and be supportive when you get handed teams that are like that, but on the other hand you also need to be ready to have your team run off in all directions and leave you all alone as soon as any kind of enemy forces are spotted lol.

So you're saying that T9s need to be just as strong as T10s because they face them regularly and teams are spotty?

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1 minute ago, thegamefilmguruman said:

So you're saying that T9s need to be just as strong as T10s because they face them regularly and teams are spotty?

Guess I better clarify, she needs at least adequate AA or very very least needs decent Secondaries since if Musashi ends up weak on both areas you can't hope to have AA ships and perimeter defense ships every battle or even in the same battle since often they spec one or the other. Not saying Musashi needs to be as strong as Yamato, but if her defenses aside from main guns turn out not to be much of any threat to even a tier 6 ship then that might be a problem lol.

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4 minutes ago, Admiral_Thrawn_1 said:

Guess I better clarify, she needs at least adequate AA or very very least needs decent Secondaries since if Musashi ends up weak on both areas you can't hope to have AA ships and perimeter defense ships every battle or even in the same battle since often they spec one or the other. Not saying Musashi needs to be as strong as Yamato, but if her defenses aside from main guns turn out not to be much of any threat to even a tier 6 ship then that might be a problem lol.

Ah, much clearer.  The secondaries aren't terrible, but I wish they were better (4x3 155mm+6x2 127mm).  If they'd just change the 155's to fire HE it might be worth the terrible AA (only 120ish DPS total). They're not bad secondaries per say, just not amazing.

Edited by thegamefilmguruman
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