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Musashi vs Yamato with Premium Camo?

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23 minutes ago, HazeGrayUnderway said:

Let's be blunt.

Let's be blunt.  Yamato secondary and AA armaments are largely useless, I can't recall a single instance when it actually did anything.  Top tier CVs will not feel any difference between attacking Yamato and Musashi, in fact Musashi might be better off with two fighters that have longer uptime, just to disrupt the drop patterns.    The 460mm on Musashi are not for smashing T7 ships, they are for smashing equal tier Iowas and Missouri BBs bow on (now, unlike pathetic secondaries and AA, I can attest that those 460mm do indeed work).  The difference in sigma does not matter squat in optimal distances, I played Yamato and Musashi side by side in over 200 battles, and they are identical.  As in pretty much exactly identical, percentage of hits and damage done.  These two ships are one and the same, there's no difference between these ships.  Musashi has the advantage of being T9 ship that can either bring inferior T9 ship on the opposing team roster, or get into battle with no T10 ships on the opposing side to shoot at it.  Hence Musashi wins more, plain and simple.  This is proven by my own stats and by server stats.

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7 minutes ago, Ramsalot said:

Let's be blunt.  Yamato secondary and AA armaments are largely useless, I can't recall a single instance when it actually did anything.  Top tier CVs will not feel any difference between attacking Yamato and Musashi, in fact Musashi might be better off with two fighters that have longer uptime, just to disrupt the drop patterns.    The 460mm on Musashi are not for smashing T7 ships, they are for smashing equal tier Iowas and Missouri BBs bow on (now, unlike pathetic secondaries and AA, I can attest that those 460mm do indeed work).  The difference in sigma does not matter squat in optimal distances, I played Yamato and Musashi side by side in over 200 battles, and they are identical.  As in pretty much exactly identical, percentage of hits and damage done.  These two ships are one and the same, there's no difference between these ships.  Musashi has the advantage of being T9 ship that can either bring inferior T9 ship on the opposing team roster, or get into battle with no T10 ships on the opposing side to shoot at it.  Hence Musashi wins more, plain and simple.  This is proven by my own stats and by server stats.

LOL I've been doing Yamato AA Build recently and it does make a difference.  However, if you don't spec for AA then why should one expect good AA, Secondaries performance?

 

The typical Yamato build has drifted away from Secondaries, much less AA (has always been absolutely niche for Yamato) Build.  The typical Yamato build emphasizes FP, Survival, etc.  Why do you expect returns to Secondaries and AA capability when they are not spec'ed for?  This isn't like before GK arrived and Yammies all sported Secondary Spec, which had the benefit of also buffing their AA to a lesser degree.  Nobody builds for that anymore, and as a consequence, it will be trash.

 

If GK doesn't spec for Secondaries, should one expect good Secondaries performance?

If Alsace doesn't spec for Secondaries, should one expect good Secondaries performance?

If Montana, Iowa, Missouri, Conqueror, Lion, Alsace, Republique do not spec for AA, should one expect good AA performance?

 

The answer to all that?  No.  If you don't build for a specific thing, then don't expect anything good from that.

Edited by HazeGrayUnderway

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3 minutes ago, HazeGrayUnderway said:

If GK doesn't spec for Secondaries, should one expect good Secondaries performance?

If Alsace doesn't spec for Secondaries, should one expect good Secondaries performance?

If Montana, Iowa, Missouri, Conqueror, Lion, Alsace, Republique do not spec for AA, should one expect good AA performance?

Myself, I tried speccing T10 ships for secondaries and even AA.  I found out those builds are vastly inferior to alternative builds in current meta.  Top tier CV population is low enough, and even if you do get one - it might just be smart enough to not jump you until you were showered with HE.  All your AA will get stripped from you, and your build will be largely useless. Secondary builds may play out on a ship like GK, but trying to maneuver inside secondary range on Yamato will results in multiple citadel hits in short order. Survival builds are much more effective on Yamato and Musashi, skills like Fire Prevention are essential in current meta, that rather limits your choices when building your captain.

Hence properly build and combat effective Yamato has practically same combat effectiveness as Musashi.

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13 minutes ago, Ramsalot said:

Myself, I tried speccing T10 ships for secondaries and even AA.  I found out those builds are vastly inferior to alternative builds in current meta.  Top tier CV population is low enough, and even if you do get one - it might just be smart enough to not jump you until you were showered with HE.  All your AA will get stripped from you, and your build will be largely useless. Secondary builds may play out on a ship like GK, but trying to maneuver inside secondary range on Yamato will results in multiple citadel hits in short order. Survival builds are much more effective on Yamato and Musashi, skills like Fire Prevention are essential in current meta, that rather limits your choices when building your captain.

Hence properly build and combat effective Yamato has practically same combat effectiveness as Musashi.

Oh, I firmly understand why the drift away from Secondaries Yamato, but you proved my point.  You don't spec for it, then don't expect any returns in that aspect of the ship.

 

People have preferences for their builds.  That's fine.  Every build is a set of strengths and compromises.  You specifically leave off AA then don't whine when even a Tier VIII CV, or in the case of even Musashi, a Tier VII CV comes and wreck you.  I firmly understand why people went towards FP / Survival.  But I also laugh when people complain about airstrikes, even on possibly high AA BBs, when they knowingly made that choice to have AA as an Achilles' Heel of their build.

Edited by HazeGrayUnderway

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Neither Yamato nor Musashi scare me. As a DD driver and RN cruiser captain Missouri scares me.

If you don’t have Missouri you missed out.

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2 hours ago, HazeGrayUnderway said:

Oh, I firmly understand why the drift away from Secondaries Yamato, but you proved my point.  You don't spec for it, then don't expect any returns in that aspect of the ship.

Personally I don’t have any expectations from secondaries/AA on my Yamato, but that begs the question for you.  Do you really consider AA and/or secondary build Yamato superior to main guns/survival build Musashi?  In my opinion similar build Yamato goes toe to toe with Musashi, but if you venture into sub optimal Yamato build...  I would wager Musashi build for its strengths will have an edge over such Yamato.

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37 minutes ago, Ramsalot said:

Personally I don’t have any expectations from secondaries/AA on my Yamato, but that begs the question for you.  Do you really consider AA and/or secondary build Yamato superior to main guns/survival build Musashi?  In my opinion similar build Yamato goes toe to toe with Musashi, but if you venture into sub optimal Yamato build...  I would wager Musashi build for its strengths will have an edge over such Yamato.

Unfortunately it doesn't go the neat, tidy way of 1-on-1, doesn't it?

 

Here is my unpopular opinion.  That AA Yamato is better rounded to deal with more threats than Main Batt / Survival Musashi.  Sure, Tier IX-X CVs are practically extinct, but those Tier VIII ones are still being played in fair numbers.  And when the CVs are flying, does that not affect how you sail your BB?  Especially one with as worthless AA as Musashi where Tier VI planes from a Tier VII CV can fly over, around, and circle your BB and barely lose any, if any bombers?  It doesn't for me.

 

I also have tons of other Battleships that are not built for Survival and I have no problems dealing with the HE & Fire.

AA / Stealth Montana / Iowa / Missouri / North Carolina / Alabama

Secondary Spec High Tier German BBs.

Really, the tears about HE do not exist for me on most of my Battleships as it does some others around here.  I know how to deal with HE & Fires, and I do not require to dedicate a lot of my build for it, if at all.  But I also kind of "cheat" in a way like incorporating DCSM2 instead of SGM2 on numerous Battleships.  I still get the help on fires while not giving up captain points for it.

I'm one of those guys that are laughing in the "OMG Conqueror HE & Fires!" type of threads, laughing at people that don't know how to deal with Fires.  Most of my BBs don't even do Survival Builds, and I'm still getting by more than fine.

 

Yamato even without ASM1 is pretty dang accurate also, and without a doubt she's more reliable than Musashi.  So it kind of equals out in main battery, even with Yamato not taking ASM1 compared to Musashi doesn't it?  And yet the AA Yamato will not be looking into the sky in fear of what may come in a CV match.

 

It still comes down to this very basic thing.  Whatever Musashi builds for, Yamato can do it better

You build for Secondaries?  Yamato > Musashi.

You build for AA?  Yamato > Musashi.

You build for Survival / Main Battery?  Yamato > Musashi

 

There are things Musashi has going for her.  I like mine quite a bit.  But whatever Musashi can do, Yamato is simply better at it.  Even down to Main Battery Sigma.

Edited by HazeGrayUnderway

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On 3/27/2018 at 2:39 PM, Ramsalot said:

Let's be blunt.  Yamato secondary and AA armaments are largely useless, I can't recall a single instance when it actually did anything.  Top tier CVs will not feel any difference between attacking Yamato and Musashi, in fact Musashi might be better off with two fighters that have longer uptime, just to disrupt the drop patterns.    The 460mm on Musashi are not for smashing T7 ships, they are for smashing equal tier Iowas and Missouri BBs bow on (now, unlike pathetic secondaries and AA, I can attest that those 460mm do indeed work).  The difference in sigma does not matter squat in optimal distances, I played Yamato and Musashi side by side in over 200 battles, and they are identical.  As in pretty much exactly identical, percentage of hits and damage done.  These two ships are one and the same, there's no difference between these ships.  Musashi has the advantage of being T9 ship that can either bring inferior T9 ship on the opposing team roster, or get into battle with no T10 ships on the opposing side to shoot at it.  Hence Musashi wins more, plain and simple.  This is proven by my own stats and by server stats.

server stats do not mean anything. As someone explained here, most of Musashi players already played Yamato before and are already used to that type of play style. They started playing Musashi as a better player. I personally got the Musashi before the Yamato and really feel the difference of accuracy..

 

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