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ArnoldSchoenberg

Musashi vs Yamato with Premium Camo?

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1 hour ago, KaptainKaybe said:

Oh you're right in that it's not in itself a deal breaker. But it does indeed ride higher. My point is that if Musashi doesn't offer anything unique or team oriented, and it doesn't have the crazy earning potential found on the Missouri, then it just really doesn't seem worth getting when you can get a Yamato with premium camo for a significantly smaller XP investment if you've already started the IJN BB grind, right? Now if Musashi had something unique to it, like Missouri's radar, or if it earned mad credits, then I'd say sure. But otherwise, it's basically a nerfed Yamato at tier 9. Which is sad as it seems like half the premium IJN BBs are just nerfed downtiered versions of existing ships. Mutsu, Ashitaka, and now Musashi.

I see Musashi as a stock Yamato with tier 9 MM with tier 9 premium earnings. Much better than say a stock Iowa being stuck at tier 9 MM instead of getting tier 8 MM and god forbid a stock Izumo.

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11 hours ago, Sventex said:

Oh, and if it’s not the HSF, the Yamato’s Premium camo is ugly as sin.

Actually Yamato permanent camouflage has grown on me over time, and I like it now.  But if you hate the colors, you can change the theme in your game files, it literally takes a minute.  Mine looks like this in game:

 

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2 hours ago, KaptainKaybe said:

Oh you're right in that it's not in itself a deal breaker. But it does indeed ride higher. My point is that if Musashi doesn't offer anything unique or team oriented, and it doesn't have the crazy earning potential found on the Missouri, then it just really doesn't seem worth getting when you can get a Yamato with premium camo for a significantly smaller XP investment if you've already started the IJN BB grind, right?

Musashi makes for an excellent division partner for Missouri.  This is exactly what I will be using it for on regular basis.

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In a non CV game probably Musashi, mainly because of the increased spotter uptime, it helps me delete cruisers much faster when they are wiggling. 1.8 sigma is called bad but both izumo and amagi have the exact same dispersion functions and sigma and they aren't inaccurate in the least.

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With Musashi's buff confirmed, and her still being 750k free XP, I am definitely more excited about her now.

~Hunter

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8 hours ago, Dodgy_Cookies said:

 1.8 sigma is called bad but both izumo and amagi have the exact same dispersion functions and sigma and they aren't inaccurate in the least.

They also don't have the ungodly huge gun range of Yamato (and I imagine Musashi). Same dispersion at longer range = wider spreads.

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3 hours ago, BunnyHerd said:

They also don't have the ungodly huge gun range of Yamato (and I imagine Musashi). Same dispersion at longer range = wider spreads.

So don't fire at targets at those extreme long ranges.

I think point is that the at the same ranges Izumo, Amagi and the Musashi should have similar accuracy.  Of course you can expect decreased accuracy as you reach out to the limits of you 26 km firing range and even worse accuracy at the 30km range you can get with your spotter active.

Overall what I think this is going to mean is that the Musashi will tend to want to get in closer than you would traditionally with a Yamato, probably in around the 12-15 km range.  I just hope others realize this too otherwise it is going to get damn annoying dealing with the sniper mentality alot of BB skippers display if we have all the Musashis sitting at 24-25km back trying to snipe out the enemy with a 1.8 sigma doing barely any damage and whineing about not being able to hit anything. 

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7 hours ago, Midnitewolf said:

I think point is that the at the same ranges Izumo, Amagi and the Musashi should have similar accuracy.  Of course you can expect decreased accuracy as you reach out to the limits of you 26 km firing range and even worse accuracy at the 30km range you can get with your spotter active.

Not similar, the same. The dispersion function for all IJN BBs are the same.

Max Disp = 84m + 7.2m × Firing Range in km

Only difference lies in the sigma values.

Edited by Dodgy_Cookies

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8 minutes ago, Dodgy_Cookies said:

Not similar, the same. The dispersion function for all IJN BBs are the same.

Max Disp = 84m + 7.2m × Firing Range in km

Only difference lies in the sigma values.

Ok let me clarify.  I think he is saying that since the Amagi and Izumo apparently have a 1.8 sigma that at the same ranges the Musashi should be just as accurate. 

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On 1/15/2018 at 12:02 AM, Aduial said:

Honestly, I would say the Yamato. Except for those very rare games where you get to face T7 ships, you're just a gimped Yamato in a T8-10 battle. Even against T7 ships, you don't really have a significant advantage, because everything that you can overmatch on T7 ships with 18 inch guns is already overmatched by 16 inch guns. And if you have a carrier in the game.....not good.

I do have the Musashi and it is not that rare to have a tier 9 game. I would say 50% of the time. And when you have a tier 9 game, of course you have tier 7 ships in the mix.

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On 1/15/2018 at 4:31 AM, AVR_Project said:

I have the Yamato in Premium Camo.

I can take it out in Co-Op and make 100K-200K in credits on average.

Love the sound of the guns.  Love the power of the artillery.  Love to eradicate bots.

Dislike losing battles in it.   Co-Op it is.

-------------

Musashi would probably end up in the same place in my port -- same circumstances -- in my collection of premium ships I haven't taken out in months.

Do you really feel the difference of accuracy between the Musashi and the Yamato?

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2 hours ago, Corsair_I said:

Do you really feel the difference of accuracy between the Musashi and the Yamato?

Sometimes it shows up, but then again, it's BB RNG.  I'd happily do ranged engagements with Musashi than most other BBs in the game not named Iowa / Missouri, Montana, Yamato.

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3 hours ago, Corsair_I said:

Do you really feel the difference of accuracy between the Musashi and the Yamato?

Musashi is still quite accurate, and in optimal ranges the difference between Musashi and Yamato guns becomes insignificant.  You can check the accuracy of guns in the screen shots below, same player and decent sample size - over 200 battles in Musashi...

GbKo3To.jpg

YvJxa6x.jpg

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15 hours ago, Ramsalot said:

Musashi is still quite accurate, and in optimal ranges the difference between Musashi and Yamato guns becomes insignificant.  You can check the accuracy of guns in the screen shots below, same player and decent sample size - over 200 battles in Musashi...

GbKo3To.jpg

YvJxa6x.jpg

Thank you very much for sharing your experience. Yesterday, I tested the Yamato in the Public test server. It seems like I land shells more often with the Yamato versus my Musashi in NA server.

I feel I was doing more damage as well but it might be explained partially by the fact that players might not be as good and teams might be smaller.

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well, i already have Musashi for the lols of lol-penning T7s with 18.1 inch guns, im currently at Amagi

 

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21 minutes ago, tcbaker777 said:

well, i already have Musashi for the lols of lol-penning T7s with 18.1 inch guns, im currently at Amagi

 

I'm also at the Amagi and I have the Musashi. But I'm wondering now if I did the right choice.

I could have used the freeXP to skip the remaining grind for the Amagi and skip the terrible Izumo.

Yesterday, I played the Yamato on PT server and I really feed a difference of accuracy.

The reason why I choose the Musashi was because I see that players who have both ships seem to do more damage in average with the Musashi but this does not seem to apply to me from my PT experience.

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1 hour ago, Corsair_I said:

I'm also at the Amagi and I have the Musashi. But I'm wondering now if I did the right choice.

I could have used the freeXP to skip the remaining grind for the Amagi and skip the terrible Izumo.

Yesterday, I played the Yamato on PT server and I really feed a difference of accuracy.

The reason why I choose the Musashi was because I see that players who have both ships seem to do more damage in average with the Musashi but this does not seem to apply to me from my PT experience.

The reason they do better with Musashi than their existing Yamato is they're applying their experience to Musashi, something that they may not have had when they first got Yamato.  Yamato is nothing at all like most other High Tier BBs.  Lots of newbies with her get rekt hard.  FFS, I'm still digging my Yamato stats out from the red because all I did was spam Battle! with her without really learning why I was getting f--ked up.  Enter Musashi much later.  I haven't had tons of games with her yet, but I'm not doing the stupid mistakes I did when I was newer and first got Yamato, i.e. I didn't know about her citadel vulnerability in the bow, which I'm very protective of now with both Yammie and Musashi :Smile_teethhappy:

 

Experience is the deal.  Yamato is better than Musashi in every meaningful combat value in the game.  The only benefits Musashi has over Yamato is Tier IX (facing Tier VII ships is always LOL with 460) and being a Premium Ship for easy captain swapping.   Lastly, as a Tier IX and a Premium Ship, she is cheaper to run than Yamato.  But secondaries, AA, main battery, etc, Yamato is better in the areas that matter.  Even a Secondaries Build Yamato > Secondaries Build Musashi, despite Mushi having more 155mm guns.  Why?  Yamato's 127mm DP guns shoot faster.  If you ever get the crazy desire to do AA spec, Musashi is awful in that while Yamato can give you some pretty decent AA for a Tier X BB.  In short, even in Build Options, Yamato gives you more freedom than Musashi.  Anything Musashi can do in a build, Yamato can do better.  But being a Premium and Tier IX has good benefits for Musashi.

Edited by HazeGrayUnderway

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4 hours ago, HazeGrayUnderway said:

The reason they do better with Musashi than their existing Yamato is they're applying their experience to Musashi, something that they may not have had when they first got Yamato.  Yamato is nothing at all like most other High Tier BBs.  Lots of newbies with her get rekt hard.  FFS, I'm still digging my Yamato stats out from the red because all I did was spam Battle! with her without really learning why I was getting f--ked up.  Enter Musashi much later.  I haven't had tons of games with her yet, but I'm not doing the stupid mistakes I did when I was newer and first got Yamato, i.e. I didn't know about her citadel vulnerability in the bow, which I'm very protective of now with both Yammie and Musashi :Smile_teethhappy:

 

Experience is the deal.  Yamato is better than Musashi in every meaningful combat value in the game.  The only benefits Musashi has over Yamato is Tier IX (facing Tier VII ships is always LOL with 460) and being a Premium Ship for easy captain swapping.   Lastly, as a Tier IX and a Premium Ship, she is cheaper to run than Yamato.  But secondaries, AA, main battery, etc, Yamato is better in the areas that matter.  Even a Secondaries Build Yamato > Secondaries Build Musashi, despite Mushi having more 155mm guns.  Why?  Yamato's 127mm DP guns shoot faster.  If you ever get the crazy desire to do AA spec, Musashi is awful in that while Yamato can give you some pretty decent AA for a Tier X BB.  In short, even in Build Options, Yamato gives you more freedom than Musashi.  Anything Musashi can do in a build, Yamato can do better.  But being a Premium and Tier IX has good benefits for Musashi.

Good points. I was also thinking that trolling tier 7 ships will give you at lot damage.

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On 1/15/2018 at 4:52 AM, Sventex said:

At this point, she needs it, a back line sniper doesn't belong in the endgame anymore, everybody needs to push more often.

Not really. What Yamato needs is to have its AP overpen not do such insanely low damage. A shell that pulls 14k on a pen should not be doing a measly 1k on an overpen.. 

especially when said overpen is on the top deck of a ship sailing towards you, landing between the two forward turrets. It overpens and goes DOWN into the ship..aka into the damn citadel area. Problem is this game is so incompetently coded that the moment it hits an armor the shell just stops registering damage. Hence you get 'overpens' on shots like these when they should be literally exploding inside the ship or striking the citadel itself. 

Funnier yet is 'overpen' on the lower side armor.. right underneath the turrets. Mmm. yeah... guess that whole turret reloading mechanism thing isn't modeled either... ship magically spawns the shell on the barrel tip when you fire and under the turrets the whole thing is hollow. 

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I have Yamato. I am going to get Musashi.

 

How can I turn down facing Shiny Horses and Colorado's and the like, with the occational T6 fail Div'd battleship with the massive 18.1 inch guns?

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2 hours ago, TabbyHopkins said:

I have Yamato. I am going to get Musashi.

 

How can I turn down facing Shiny Horses and Colorado's and the like, with the occational T6 fail Div'd battleship with the massive 18.1 inch guns?

When you are in a Tier 9 game, you can act like a big bully, especially against tier 7, but coming from Yamato, you might be annoyed by the change in accuracy.What could have been a multiple citadels and instant kill are now just 1 or few regular pens and few overpens.

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I have both, and have to say the 'tiering' advantage of the Mushashi more than makes up for what they stripped down / out. The Yamato will always bring a T10 BB on the other side and is, imo, balanced for her tier, so given equal player skill and luck it's a stalemate. The Mushashi, OTOH, is an overmatch in raw firepower and tankiness against any other T9 BB it will bring into a battle on the other side (other than vs CV's) since it has a normal amount of guns for the tier with a normal sigma for the tier while bringing T10 shells that overmatch most everything, a T10 HP pool for the red team to chew through if they can't/don't cit you, the best torpedo belt in the game and even the gimmick of having the best spotter plane in the game.

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Let's be blunt.  Existing 406mm/410mm guns in Tier IX already make a mockery of the Tier VII BB protection schemes.  It's just when Musashi does it, it does it harder, and it's funny.  It's also funny having a 10.6km secondaries build against Tier VII ships, where 8km is deemed overwhelmingly strong for the tier.

 

Other than bad play on Musashi's part, when she's top tier it gets really silly.  The only thing that makes Musashi players really scared as a Top Tier ship?  Carriers.  Even a Tier VII CV will be a nightmare as Musashi's AA is very bad.  Musashi is a downtiered Tier X BB, but her AA is Tier V-VI levels of bad.

 

Also said to keep things honest:  While it's funny when Tier IX ships are clubbing Tier VII, as a Tier IX, you will be facing Tier X ships on a regular basis.  Hence the valid criticism people had about Musashi.

"If I'm going to see Tier X matches all the time, why have Musashi when I can get Yamato, who is better in every meaningful combat ability?"

I just don't want anyone getting the impression that having a Tier IX, even a Premium like Musashi, Missouri, means that you'll be running over LOLorados all the time.  You'll be seeing Hindenburg, Yamato, Montana, Shimakaze, Yueyang, Gearing, Zao, GK, etc. on a more regular basis.  Also, if you thought dealing with a Kaga bomber group in Musashi is a nightmare, wait until Taiho, Midway, Hakuryu come looking for her.

NlHr81y.gif

Edited by HazeGrayUnderway

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