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NeutralState

DD's Insane Win Rate Today?

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average skill level for DDs has greatly dropped since the starting of DOY missions

too many people sailing their unfamiliar DDs for the 90k torp damage quest

you just need to be an average DD player to dominate the games

 

that will change after DOY missions end though

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Also, I've been playing my Kamikaze R 100x more then I usually do because I gotta rack up Battleship kills for that dumb task since I don't have any RN DDs.

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5 minutes ago, NeutralState said:

Anyone else having insane luck in DDs today? It seems DDs just win game. What is going on?

With the glaring exception of my Fushun games, I did very well in my DDs today.  Unfortunately I'm not quite good enough to compensate for more than 10 of my teammates per game.

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16 minutes ago, Harv72b said:

With the glaring exception of my Fushun games, I did very well in my DDs today.  Unfortunately I'm not quite good enough to compensate for more than 10 of my teammates per game.

It's interesting (to me, at least).  I've been doing quite well in the Fushun.  I got it as part of the New Years Raid campaign (I hadn't been doing the PA DD line before that).  And I love this thing.  It is a little weird playing what is essentially a Gnevny as a stealthy torpedo boat, but what the heck, with those torps, it really works!  

I hadn't been all that interested in doing the PA DD line before.  But since getting the Fushun and essentially a jump start to the line, I'm finding it really fun.  And it reminds me of the good ol' days when the IJN DD's were fun, with the only caveat being that your torps can't hit DD's.  But I can deal with that.  It hasn't be a big problem thus far for me.  

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18 minutes ago, KaptainKaybe said:

You know there's DDs on the losing teams too, right? ;)

100% true, which was something that came to mind when I read the thread title.

That said, I have noticed that there does seem to be a real lack of good DD play out there.  Too many people drive their DD's much too aggressively for my taste, to the point of passing mere aggressiveness and going into "just plain dumb" territory where you get yourself killed way too easily.

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6 minutes ago, Crucis said:

100% true, which was something that came to mind when I read the thread title.

That said, I have noticed that there does seem to be a real lack of good DD play out there.  Too many people drive their DD's much too aggressively for my taste, to the point of passing mere aggressiveness and going into "just plain dumb" territory where you get yourself killed way too easily.

Honestly,  I'd rather have DDs that cap aggressively (but intelligently) than DDs that avoid capping entirely. And if there's no carriers in the game, there is absolutely zero reason to avoid capping in Domination at the start of the match. DDs have better concealment than everything else and can spot the opposition and leave the cap if necessary.

That being said, I think others have mentioned that the bad DD play this past week is likely due to the torpedo damage mission where every DD is more interested in chasing after battleships than actually trying to win the game.

 

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15 minutes ago, KaptainKaybe said:

Honestly,  I'd rather have DDs that cap aggressively (but intelligently) than DDs that avoid capping entirely. And if there's no carriers in the game, there is absolutely zero reason to avoid capping in Domination at the start of the match. DDs have better concealment than everything else and can spot the opposition and leave the cap if necessary.

That being said, I think others have mentioned that the bad DD play this past week is likely due to the torpedo damage mission where every DD is more interested in chasing after battleships than actually trying to win the game.

 

the sad thing is some of the DDs that do go to cap think its either cap or die in the first 2 min of a game.  They will fight till they die, or smoke up then sit in their smoke until they are torped to death rather than flee and keep being useful throughout the match.  even worse when a DD smokes their way into the cap, then just sits there.   they didn't spot a single thing, then just die.  i still see a lot of people do that at tier 10.   i don't get how they haven't learned that it is a bad idea by the time they get there. 

 

or the BBs who sit on map edge with spotter plane and range upgrades sniping the entire match.  you would think always being near the bottom would tell them their strategy is not a good one. 

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5 hours ago, KaptainKaybe said:

Honestly,  I'd rather have DDs that cap aggressively (but intelligently) than DDs that avoid capping entirely. And if there's no carriers in the game, there is absolutely zero reason to avoid capping in Domination at the start of the match. DDs have better concealment than everything else and can spot the opposition and leave the cap if necessary.

That being said, I think others have mentioned that the bad DD play this past week is likely due to the torpedo damage mission where every DD is more interested in chasing after battleships than actually trying to win the game.

 

I'm not against capping.  But at the same time, I strongly believe that grabbing an early cap is NOT worth ruining my game.  Randoms are not clan battles, etc. While there are two teams, it's not a hardcore team mode.  And frankly, any cap that the enemy takes can be taken right back (and visa-versa).  So, I'd rather play it really smart and preserve most of my HP, and try to defeat the enemy ships in the vicinity of a cap, before worrying about actually taking it.  To me, it's not worth ruining my game, or losing a lot of ships (mine included) just to say that we took this cap.  Better to contend for the cap and defeat the enemy ships around it, and then look at the cap as the spoils of victory, than ram your head against a brick wall to take a cap by brute force at the cost of more of your ships lost than the enemy lost.

Also note that when I was talking about super aggressive DD play to the point of being dumb, I wasn't necessarily talking about caps.  I was also talking about people who just don't know when to fall back and stay concealed.  Players who will fire their DD's guns at some BB at close but concealed range, rather than make the smart play by keeping their guns silent while they retreat to fight another day (or a handful of seconds later).  When you're playing a stealthy ninja torpedo boat DD, caution should be your primary motivation, IMO.  Not caution to the point of not being productive, but caution for the sake of preserving your DD's HP and staying in the battle helping your team.

 

Edited by Crucis
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There's also one of the New Year Raid tasks (Task 5 IIRC), has 2 additional missions that involve spotting DDs first and dealing damage to DDs. The upswing in aggression may be a result of these tasks. I realise there is the 3 million task also, but doing that twice might be putting people off so they're supplementing with these tasks, and the best way to spot and damage DDs is to be a DD and charge in.

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4 minutes ago, Frederick_The_Great said:

the sad thing is some of the DDs that do go to cap think its either cap or die in the first 2 min of a game.  They will fight till they die, or smoke up then sit in their smoke until they are torped to death rather than flee and keep being useful throughout the match.  even worse when a DD smokes their way into the cap, then just sits there.   they didn't spot a single thing, then just die.  i still see a lot of people do that at tier 10.   i don't get how they haven't learned that it is a bad idea by the time they get there. 

Oh god, yes.  Jumping on cap and smoking up just for the sake of capping is such a noob move.  For one thing, it tells the enemy where you probably are.  And two, your smoke instantly becomes a torpedo magnet.  

Now, an extremely cagey DD player might intentionally drop smoke but not actually stay in it.  And sucker the enemy into firing torps into the smoke.  BUT you have to be careful if you do this because the last thing you want to do is sucker the enemy into torping the smoke, and have a team mate decide to get into the smoke only to get him torped.  So, if you're going to try this diversion, it's probably best to tell your team mates before hand.

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4 minutes ago, Meatshield_No13 said:

There's also one of the New Year Raid tasks (Task 5 IIRC), has 2 additional missions that involve spotting DDs first and dealing damage to DDs. The upswing in aggression may be a result of these tasks. I realise there is the 3 million task also, but doing that twice might be putting people off so they're supplementing with these tasks, and the best way to spot and damage DDs is to be a DD and charge in.

Regarding the 3 million credits task, that can be a super easy task, *IF* you have premium time and premium ships.  Just run some high tier premium ships, loaded up with credit enhancing signal flags.  And if by chance you have a Missouri, you can finish the 3M credit task in a massive hurry, as long as you're reasonably good in her.

 

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Smoking up right away denies you visibility on the enemy team, and hence robs your team visibility on the enemy team. There's absolutely no reason to ever smoke up at the start of the match unless you get spotted by the enemy team and start getting shelled by a bunch of ships.

My take on capping is this:

Capping is SUPER IMPORTANT in Domination. I don't mean capping suicidaly, but as a non-russian DD, your number one job in a DD is capping, spotting, and taking out other DDs. Your torps are there for area denial, not for running along the edge of the map hunting battleships. As long as you play DDs with this in mind, then keep playing and get better. If you refuse to cap, stop playing DDs. Period.

What I do is head for the closest logical cap right at the start of the match. As I'm reaching the cap, I start turning, enter the cap, and cut all my speed with my nose pointing back to my own spawn so that I can run it if needed. Then as I'm capping, I'll keep an eye on both the opposition and my own support. If I see a bunch of enemy cruisers and battleships heading my way when the rest of my team is elsewhere, I leave. The only way the team has that many big ships coming to cap is if they are led by a DD to spot. No cruiser or battleship would dare try cap on the front line at the start of the match unless they have no choice, for example if there's only a single DD on their team capping elsewhere. And even then.

If I have significantly more support than the I see enemy ships, and if I know there's an enemy DD in the cap, I'll inch forward to try and spot him. It's a gamble, but if my side has more guns than their side, it will typically work in my favor unless my whole team is made up of potatoes. Which is rarely the case if they are actually trying to support me rather than drooling and border humping. Mind you, this is still quite risky as there are many really low concealment cruisers and even BBs out there. So getting a sense of what enemy ships have already been spotted is important.

Note: If I see a radar cruiser coming at me and no one is shooting at him, I leave. If your team is incapable of seeing the threat that is radar, you're right to worry.

Again, I have to absolutely stress that capping is super important at the start of the match. Even if you're not first in there, as long as you can halt their progress before completed, you're good. But the moment a cap is claimed by a team, it forces the other team to play aggressively or risk hemorrhaging points quickly. The only time I've seen a team come back from a serious capping point deficit is if the enemy team are loaded with potatoes who broadside out in the open. In teams of equal skill, the team that holds two of the three caps at the start of the match can generally win it as all they have to do is find a defensive position and keep reseting cap attempts while the enemy team is forced to push and die.

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1 hour ago, Crucis said:

Oh god, yes.  Jumping on cap and smoking up just for the sake of capping is such a noob move.  For one thing, it tells the enemy where you probably are.  And two, your smoke instantly becomes a torpedo magnet.  

Now, an extremely cagey DD player might intentionally drop smoke but not actually stay in it.  And sucker the enemy into firing torps into the smoke.  BUT you have to be careful if you do this because the last thing you want to do is sucker the enemy into torping the smoke, and have a team mate decide to get into the smoke only to get him torped.  So, if you're going to try this diversion, it's probably best to tell your team mates before hand.

yea i thought of doing that same tactic but almost always avoid it.  Teammates love to go into your smoke, especially near caps.  Plus, i i generally only have 3 smokes, and i would like to use them only when i need to.  If i had SI, i would be more open to when i use them.  using your smoke that early means you have to go another 15 or so minutes with only 2 smokes.  Now, depending on the back up i am receiving, i am willing to lay smoke early so they can get closer to the cap without being seen or shot while firing back.  i dont mind laying smoke to save teammates either if they are saveable and not brain dead.

 

i got rid of SI on my fletcher after the smoke nerf.  smoking teammates up is not as worth it anymore.  Plus torp reload, SE for the extra HP, and when i get my 19 point captain, probably vigilance seem more worth while.  i have this amazing luck of running into random torps in my fletcher either meant for someone else or they were just blind fired no where near where my teammates are and i ran into them.(and i am not referring to be rpf torped)  those probably account for about 1/4 - 1/3 of my deaths in the fletcher. 

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5 hours ago, Sventex said:

Also, I've been playing my Kamikaze R 100x more then I usually do because I gotta rack up Battleship kills for that dumb task since I don't have any RN DDs.

You can do it with British cruisers too :)

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I unlocked the Yugumo over the weekend and after 25 games I am at 75% w/r and 60k average damage, compare this to the Kagero where I am at 47%w/r.

Because of the smoke nerfs and all the radar at high tiers I went with torp reload booster instead of smoke and I have to say it has really paid off.

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1 hour ago, Lionel92 said:

You can do it with British cruisers too :)

I could do it with Battlehships, Cruisers, Destroyers and CVs.  Yes, I've used my Emerald as a torpedo boat to rack up torpedo hits, but like charging a Battleship is suicidal.  I get a kill, 4 torpedo hits, and I'm dead.  At least my Kamikaze R can stealth torp and have a high alpha to "kill secure" so it wouldn't take me all weekend.

0SEMAKU.jpg

Edited by Sventex

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4 hours ago, KaptainKaybe said:

Smoking up right away denies you visibility on the enemy team, and hence robs your team visibility on the enemy team. There's absolutely no reason to ever smoke up at the start of the match unless you get spotted by the enemy team and start getting shelled by a bunch of ships.

My take on capping is this:

Capping is SUPER IMPORTANT in Domination. I don't mean capping suicidaly, but as a non-russian DD, your number one job in a DD is capping, spotting, and taking out other DDs. Your torps are there for area denial, not for running along the edge of the map hunting battleships. As long as you play DDs with this in mind, then keep playing and get better. If you refuse to cap, stop playing DDs. Period.

What I do is head for the closest logical cap right at the start of the match. As I'm reaching the cap, I start turning, enter the cap, and cut all my speed with my nose pointing back to my own spawn so that I can run it if needed. Then as I'm capping, I'll keep an eye on both the opposition and my own support. If I see a bunch of enemy cruisers and battleships heading my way when the rest of my team is elsewhere, I leave. The only way the team has that many big ships coming to cap is if they are led by a DD to spot. No cruiser or battleship would dare try cap on the front line at the start of the match unless they have no choice, for example if there's only a single DD on their team capping elsewhere. And even then.

If I have significantly more support than the I see enemy ships, and if I know there's an enemy DD in the cap, I'll inch forward to try and spot him. It's a gamble, but if my side has more guns than their side, it will typically work in my favor unless my whole team is made up of potatoes. Which is rarely the case if they are actually trying to support me rather than drooling and border humping. Mind you, this is still quite risky as there are many really low concealment cruisers and even BBs out there. So getting a sense of what enemy ships have already been spotted is important.

Note: If I see a radar cruiser coming at me and no one is shooting at him, I leave. If your team is incapable of seeing the threat that is radar, you're right to worry.

Again, I have to absolutely stress that capping is super important at the start of the match. Even if you're not first in there, as long as you can halt their progress before completed, you're good. But the moment a cap is claimed by a team, it forces the other team to play aggressively or risk hemorrhaging points quickly. The only time I've seen a team come back from a serious capping point deficit is if the enemy team are loaded with potatoes who broadside out in the open. In teams of equal skill, the team that holds two of the three caps at the start of the match can generally win it as all they have to do is find a defensive position and keep reseting cap attempts while the enemy team is forced to push and die.

I disagree with the highlighted part above.  Taking a cap right at the start is NOT super important.  It is NOT super important to take a cap by brute force at the cost of losing more of your own team's ships than enemy ships you sink in the process.  As long as you contend for the cap intelligently, you can keep the cap in contention and uncontrolled or even "let" the enemy take control of it temporarily, as long as you keep up the fight around the cap and eventually defeat the enemy around said cap and retake it for yourself.

 

Secondly, I profoundly disagree with your assertion that torpedoes are for "area denial".  Horse feathers.  They're weapons, same as guns.  They're for firing at ships with the intention of getting hits, doing damage, and perhaps even getting kills.  Whether they actually DO hit is very much undecided when you fire them.  But they are fired for intention of causing damage, etc.  To me, "area denial" smacks of saying "I don't know if there's anybody there or will be there, but I'm going to blind fire my torpedoes at that area just in case."  Sorry, but I don't like truly blind firing torpedoes on a whim.  Torps take too long to reload on many DDs to make such firing on a whim worth the effort.  I fire torpedoes for effect, not for whims.

 

As for your comment that if you don't play DDs your way, "stop playing DDs", go to hell.  I'll play my way.  Now the fact is that when I'm playing "my way" I am still contending for caps, but that's not necessarily the same thing as trying to brute force caps.  I don't play that way and I never will.  If I'm on Tears of the Desert Epicenter in my Shimmy, you can bet your bottom dollar that I won't be going into the middle and fighting over the cap with the gunboats.  I take my Shimmy around the edges of the epicenter rings trying to find enemies to torpedo, which in my view absolutely *IS* supporting the people who are contending for the cap, because I'm trying to fight against the enemies who are trying to support the enemy's cappers.  And I've had considerable success doing this.  Sometimes, it's because I'm hammering the enemy ships with torps.  And sometimes I may not get many hits, but I'm scaring them so much that they're distracted from supporting their cappers.  You can call this "area denial" all you want, but I don't see it that way.  I am firing torps with the intent of getting hits.  And if I don't but I scare them away, that's OK, but I'll never look at it as "area denial".  If a couple bottom tier cruisers or even BBs tried to go into that same region and I appeared in a top tier BB and started shooting at them and my presence scared them away, I wouldn't look at that as "area denial" either.  They were just scared and ran.  If you want to look at scaring the enemy away, regardless of what weapons you used to do it, as "area denial", that's your prerogative. But I don't use that term, and that's my prerogative.

 

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Quote

Anyone else having insane luck in DDs today?

So you won a few games in a row and feel compelled to post about it?* Sample size, dude.

*Even sadder - I responded!:Smile_child:

**Even sadder (but not surprising) - forumites have managed to start a argument in the thread

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8 hours ago, NeutralState said:

Anyone else having insane luck in DDs today? It seems DDs just win game. What is going on?

I won every single game I played yesterday, all in my Fletcher.

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7 hours ago, Sventex said:

Also, I've been playing my Kamikaze R 100x more then I usually do because I gotta rack up Battleship kills for that dumb task since I don't have any RN DDs.

 

That task dosen;t require RN ships, i did it in a mix of balt, fuso, colorado, missouri, fiji, and tirpitz, with the balt finishing it off.

 

6 hours ago, Crucis said:

 

Regarding the 3 million credits task, that can be a super easy task, *IF* you have premium time and premium ships.  Just run some high tier premium ships, loaded up with credit enhancing signal flags.  And if by chance you have a Missouri, you can finish the 3M credit task in a massive hurry, as long as you're reasonably good in her.

 

 

Also IF your teams are not utter shite. Been trying the last couple of hours and managed to have  game sin a row amongst tirpitz and missouri where my best was just over 50k, and my next best 48k, everything else was sub 30k because of utter horrific teammates. getting 500-700xp on a loss has been enough for top 3 in most of those matches.

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23 minutes ago, Carl said:

Also IF your teams are not utter shite. Been trying the last couple of hours and managed to have  game sin a row amongst tirpitz and missouri where my best was just over 50k, and my next best 48k, everything else was sub 30k because of utter horrific teammates. getting 500-700xp on a loss has been enough for top 3 in most of those matches.

I';ll give you that getting truly horrendous teams would limit your ability to earn the really big credit battles.  So, I guess you just have to do the best you can and hope for the best.  

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9 hours ago, NeutralState said:

Anyone else having insane luck in DDs today? It seems DDs just win game. What is going on?

Every T8/T9 DD game I've played has at least 50% of the enemy team with radar. My experience is directly opposite yours and I exited out to play something else.

Edited by w4spl3g

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