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Duke of York: inperspective

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2 minutes ago, nuttybiscuit said:

this is a game, not a job.. (get out, see some clear sky, go for a walk, breathe some fresh air, remember what life is about..)

Or...attempt a subtle insult when presented with an unwinnable scenario. 

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1 minute ago, Sweetsie said:

Or...attempt a subtle insult when presented with an unwinnable scenario. 

definitely not an insult, but a gentle reminder to look up from your pc screen and not confuse the game with a job. If I were to get gritty (still far from insulting) I would question the misplaced sense of entitlement many players have been expressing lately.

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Just now, nuttybiscuit said:

definetly not an insult, but a gentle reminder to look up from your pc screen and not confuse the game with a job.

Nutty, when post count approaches game count....well maybe you should play more rather than posting..... but that isn't an insult....just a gentle reminder... but I am touched by your concern for my well being. Your jedi mind tricks......

See the source image

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1 minute ago, Sweetsie said:

Nutty, when post count approaches game count....well maybe you should play more rather than posting..... but that isn't an insult....just a gentle reminder... but I am touched by your concern for my well being. Your jedi mind tricks......

See the source image

but but forum posting IS life! 

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16 hours ago, Sweetsie said:

Stop!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I am so tired of "it's a free ship" If something takes you 5-50 hours to get, it isn't free!!!!!!!!!!  

Sure but I spent 0 hours grinding because I would have spent the time in-game anyway. All it does is affect my selection of ships and tiers. Slightly. 

So, yeah, it is free. 

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2 minutes ago, Taichunger said:

Sure but I spent 0 hours grinding because I would have spent the time in-game anyway. All it does is affect my selection of ships and tiers. Slightly. 

So, yeah, it is free. 

Would you consider the Missouri, the Nelson and the Musashi to be free?

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16 hours ago, Sweetsie said:

Would you consider the Missouri, the Nelson and the Musashi to be free?

No, because I spent in-game resources to get them. But Duke was free in both resources and time, I got it as I put some minimal mental effort to adjust my ship selection and tiering to match the campaign.

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1 minute ago, Taichunger said:

No, because I spent in-game resources to get them. But Duke was free in both resources and time, I got it as I put some minimal mental effort to adjust my ship selection and tiering to match the campaign.

what in game resources did you spend? all you had to do was play any ship you wanted and you always acquire free xp......

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I'd bet on DoY winning against any other T7 BB 1v1 that's not also Royal Navy. Scharnhorst maybe has a chance if her torpedo tubes miraculously survive.

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1 minute ago, NeoRussia said:

I'd bet on DoY winning against any other T7 BB 1v1 that's not also Royal Navy. Scharnhorst maybe has a chance if her torpedo tubes miraculously survive.

And if she gets close enough to use them. Shiny Horse is a great ship, but easily beaten by a sensibly played KGV, and stern kiting Hood (Nelson I don't know).

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16 hours ago, Sweetsie said:

what in game resources did you spend? all you had to do was play any ship you wanted and you always acquire free xp......

Yeah, but I had flags I got through various means, purchasing, gifts, etc. I spent those on Missouri. 

For DoY, I didn't spend any signals I wouldn't have spent anyway. For example, when grinding credits, I used Missouri and Kutu fully flagged. But I do that anyway when I play them....

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4 hours ago, goldeagle1123 said:

I have no clue why you're comparing DoY and Spee. No one is complaining that she's free to people who want to do all of the grinding, but lots of people still paid for her. Mind you, a ship being free to some people is no excuse for said ship to be garbage. People just want a balanced ship, stop trying to compare a tier 7 battleship to a tier 6 cruiser. Because I'd take tier 6 cruisers for free over the former all day if it's better balanced for it's tier.

Your missing the point.  He is comparing the DoY to the Graf Spee because they were both free ships.  He is saying the free ship they gave us this time around is better than what they gave us last time around.  No more, no less.  It isn't a comparison of a Cruiser to a BB just a simple statement that the DoY is a better ship.

 

4 hours ago, Lert said:

Being unambiguously worse than its free tech tree sister makes DoY uncompetitive.

Hogwash.  Just review the stats on the DoY.  It is having no issues hanging in there with the other Tier 7s.  Being around middle of the road stat-wise is pretty much the definition of  being competitive.  Rather than saying, "because it isn't as good as the KGV it sucks" you need to really re-evaluation your definition of competitive by looking at how it is comparing against the other Tier 7 ships.  

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2 hours ago, nuttybiscuit said:

And if she gets close enough to use them. Shiny Horse is a great ship, but easily beaten by a sensibly played KGV, and stern kiting Hood (Nelson I don't know).

Nelson can't brawl.  Learned that the hard way already.  Her Citadel is way to high to even remotely consider brawling.  If a Scharnhorst gets to brawling range, I would give the edge to the Scharnhorst.

However, it has to get to the Nelson first and even bow on, a Nelson can wreck ships with its 16 inch HE. 

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7 hours ago, Lert said:

Being unambiguously worse than its free tech tree sister makes DoY uncompetitive.

The lived experience of this ship says otherwise. Also, at the very least, it's credit earning is higher than the tech tree ship! 

;-)

Edited by UltimateNewbie
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6 hours ago, Sweetsie said:

Who said anything about wanting the ship? I simply point out that it isn't free. And if your argument is that is free, then is the Missouri free? Because if you don't value your time at all...then I guess "it's free".....

By that logic nothing is actually "free." Not even "free XP..." 

Missouri is free for people who didn't spend any money on it. Did they have premium time? Well then maybe you don't think it's free and they do? 

A little disposable income to throw at the problem? 100 bucks is like 10 bucks is like 1 dollar to some people. People with more money than time may throw a buck 50 at the game, convert free XP (which also isn't free I guess) and feel like THEY got a free Missouri because all they had to do was click a mouse button a few times for a barely discernible denomination of money to evaporate from their bank account. 

Free is up to the user to define and I'm quite certain that few give a [edited] about your opinion about what it is. 

Edited by Gascan75

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8 hours ago, Gascan75 said:

By that logic nothing is actually "free." Not even "free XP..." 

Missouri is free for people who didn't spend any money on it. Did they have premium time? Well then maybe you don't think it's free and they do? 

A little disposable income to throw at the problem? 100 bucks is like 10 bucks is like 1 dollar to some people. People with more money than time may throw a buck 50 at the game, convert free XP (which also isn't free I guess) and feel like THEY got a free Missouri because all they had to do was click a mouse button a few times for a barely discernible denomination of money to evaporate from their bank account. 

Free is up to the user to define and I'm quite certain that few give a [edited] about your opinion about what it is. 

Thank you! If you could help me determine which few those are I would like to buy them a Santa crate, since you are certain.

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Unlike many of you, I decided to tee off my wife and buy a Duke of York because I did not have the time to win it by playing the campaign. The $45 American gave me a ship that can be a CA hunter.  When using the Perth, I got into a few games where I was being chased and the 152 mm do not do much on the Duke of York.  It is also a risk turning port or starboard to fire torpedoes since the angle is poor and you need to score several hits to sink a Duke.

Sending 6 356 MM shell downrange in one salvo does wonders to a CA.  its speed is good and I avoided grinding through 2 tiers to get the KGV sister.  I am satisfied with the ship. I will get the superintendent skill for the extra heal.

Astrosaint

Edited by Astrosaint

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16 hours ago, Sweetsie said:

Would you consider the Missouri, the Nelson and the Musashi to be free?

it was free and will be free for me.      may be not for you though  I find it interesting you spent 154 matches in ranked  even though there is even less reward associated with it.  you also played 500 matches in random in last 34 days.  so you spent lot of time playing something that is costing you lot of money (since you value your time that much).     I didn't have to modify my play that much to finish DOY and NY campaign.    (except may be play my missouri a bit more than usual, but that was ok since i needed the fund)   I kinda like having bit of challenge, that is why I stock grind most of my botes.   

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10 hours ago, UltimateNewbie said:

The lived experience of this ship says otherwise.

What lived experience? You've got 0 battles in Duke of York on your profile.

10 hours ago, UltimateNewbie said:

Also, at the very least, it's credit earning is higher than the tech tree ship!

So are Nelson's and Hood's, all the while bringing in more wins, DPG and XPG than Duke of York.

Let's look at the performance stats. Looking at RU stats since Dookie hasn't been released on EU yet and NA ship stats are not loading on warships.today when I write this post. I strongly doubt the NA numbers and rankings will be very different though.

IfwqCA6.jpg

Every T7 premium BB outperforms Duke. Ashitaka has only 1155 battles though so take its performance numbers with a grain of salt.

The tech tree ship King George V outperforms Duke of York. This is to be expected, since the Dookie is undeniably, factually worse than King George V.

Gneisenau outperforms Duke of York. This is not unexpected, Gneisenau is a strong ship.

Only the dinosaurs Nagato and Colorado don't outperform the Duke of York. It's a bit damning that the two oldest and most in need of an update ships in the tier don't outperform the newest, latest premium ship in tier.

But then there's the fact that the Duke is a premium ship and those two are tech tree ships. How does this matter? Well, premium ships are expected to show higher performance numbers based on several reasons:

  • Only motivated people will have them. In the case of Dookie, only people who were motivated enough to buy it or were motivated enough to complete a long chain of missions will have it.
  • No stock grind. Colorado and Nagato's performance numbers are influenced downwards by their stock grinds. Dookie avoids that.
  • Captain trainer. Premium ships can take any captain from that nation, and most people will put a very experienced, high point captain in their premium ships instead of a fresh, 1 pt captain into a tech tree ship when starting to play it.

So, it stands to reason that Duke of York's performance numbers are a bit inflated, just like with any premium ship.

And yet people defend Dookie, saying it's a 'good' ship. It's not.

It:

  • Fails as a competitive ship. Every other T7 BB premium outperforms it, its tech tree sistership outperforms it.
  • Fails as an 'interesting' premium ship: it's the exact same playstyle as its 100% free tech tree sistership, except worse.
  • Fails as a captain trainer, Nelson and Hood both bring in more XP per battle according to their performance numbers, so are better captain trainers.
  • Fails as a 'for fun' ship, by virtue of being the same as the free tech tree sister ship except for a slower reload, and since when did having a slower reload mean it was more fun than the alternative?

Now the argument could be made that it succeeds as a 'for fun' ship if you don't have KGV, and it succeeds as a captain trainer if you don't have Nelson or Hood. But, honestly, if your criteria for a ship being good depends on the absence of better options, then your criteria needs work. Being better than nothing does not make a ship 'good'.

I'm not saying it's not a playable ship. I'm just saying it's not a good ship. Frankly, anyone trying to defend Duke of York as a 'good' ship reeks of being a WG apologist to me, something I've been accused of being far too often.

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Whenever a topic about the Duke of S*&% is released I just fall back to this meme that sums up the whole issue with perfection.

21bky2.jpg

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I’m liking my DoY quite well. I’m not really finding any of these flaws that everyone else seems to be finding. The HE does an extremely good job at damaging, burning, and destroying modules on every ship type. It’s not uncommon to set two fires with one salvo, and repair parties don’t come off cooldown fast enough to repair the damage I deal with HE and fires.

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2 minutes ago, Peregrinas said:

I’m not really finding any of these flaws that everyone else seems to be finding.

That's ok. I'll just drive my KGV that I got for free and shoot every 25 seconds and heal some more when your heals have run out.

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