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Joe_Barbarian

Why do people blame the CV player when you lose.

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Lets be honest here, I like to play carriers because I'm a lousy shot. I'm either really good or really bad with guns, however when it comes to carriers, I enjoy it. So lets get onto the main topic, Carrier Abuse.

I'll be the first to admit that I'll give as good as I get, I could link so seriously foul abuse I've been given, we're talking full blown N bombs, C bombs, stuff that if you said to your mother she'd punch you so hard you'd wish she washed your mouth out with soap instead. This isn't a one off this is REGULAR ABUSE. I get into a match, we've basically lost due to poor team effort but I still reach top 7 XP gained DESPITE LOSING! but yet i'm called a See You Next Thursday and slammed with negative Karma, but yet it's still all my fault. I know for a FACT i'm not the only Carrier player that gets this abuse.

So lets get this out in the open. What really ticks you off about carrier players?

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top 7 XP in a CV in a loss? That's um... not impressive at all.

What ticks me off about most carrier players is how bad they are in general. Especially on the NA server.

Edited by CarefreeTongue
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People get mad at carriers for two main reasons. 

 

1) Good carries win games. Bad carriers make losing much, much more likely. 

2) Carriers routinely exert excessive influence on the outcome of a battle. That means you're probably going to be apportioned a proportionally larger level of fault when you lose. 

 

I'm not saying it's right. I'm just answering the "why blame carriers," bit. 

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A bad carrier player can singlehandedly screw the match, on such a consistent basis it makes Yamato's 2.1 sigma look like german dispersion.

Its not uncommon, and often not wrong, that it will be the poor CV that will lose the game, as they have such a huge impact on the entire map.

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Bad play would but I have little time to note how the CV is playing that I know I can, and won't, make comments about CV play. 

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3 minutes ago, Shadeylark said:

Cv life... hated when you do well, hated when you do bad.  

It's almost like a x2 multiplier to having abuse thrown at you from people who take things too seriously.

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3 minutes ago, CarefreeTongue said:

top 7 XP in a CV in a loss? That's um... not impressive at all.

What ticks me off about most carrier players is how bad they are in general. Especially on the NA server.

if it's in ranked, top 7 XP would be not so good. in a random battle, seen a LOT of CVs at the bottom of the team rank, but often this was because they were spotting and shooting down planes.

13 minutes ago, Joe_Barbarian said:

Lets be honest here, I like to play carriers because I'm a lousy shot. I'm either really good or really bad with guns, however when it comes to carriers, I enjoy it. So lets get onto the main topic, Carrier Abuse.

I'll be the first to admit that I'll give as good as I get, I could link so seriously foul abuse I've been given, we're talking full blown N bombs, C bombs, stuff that if you said to your mother she'd punch you so hard you'd wish she washed your mouth out with soap instead. This isn't a one off this is REGULAR ABUSE. I get into a match, we've basically lost due to poor team effort but I still reach top 7 XP gained DESPITE LOSING! but yet i'm called a See You Next Thursday and slammed with negative Karma, but yet it's still all my fault. I know for a FACT i'm not the only Carrier player that gets this abuse.

So lets get this out in the open. What really ticks you off about carrier players?

nothing bothers me about a CV player if they communicate. what sucks utterly is if they are not helping at all, at anything, and are completely silent. when a CV types 'sorry guys, lost all my planes, bad loadout, awful battle,"' I have those sorts of battles too, I think we all do. 

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Because some people don't like carriers in the game in the first place, and then the carrier player who by joining the queue has inflicted himself on you does this:

EIMe9Dj.jpg

Which results in a guaranteed loss (our Akatsuki cross-dropped with no cover, our other DoY permaspotted to death, our Myoko savaged by TB's with no cover).

If a DD had potatoed as hard at the start it would have been recoverable. Thanks for nothing.

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Just now, not_acceptable said:

if it's in ranked, top 7 XP would be not so good. in a random battle, seen a LOT of CVs at the bottom of the team rank, but often this was because they were spotting and shooting down planes.

and not actually killing stuff themselves

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1 minute ago, not_acceptable said:

if it's in ranked, top 7 XP would be not so good. in a random battle, seen a LOT of CVs at the bottom of the team rank, but often this was because they were spotting and shooting down planes.

nothing bothers me about a CV player if they communicate. what sucks utterly is if they are not helping at all, at anything, and are completely silent. when a CV types 'sorry guys, lost all my planes, bad loadout, awful battle,"' I have those sorts of battles too, I think we all do. 

See this, this is the kind of player behaviour that should be encouraged. People should be forgiving and understanding that people have bad games. We're humans not robots, yeah I've called a fair share of teams noobs because they make me want to be at both ends of the map at the same time while still covering the middle. I commonly go into a match these days "Pick 2 points and i'll cover them, i'm not stretching myself to 3 points" And whoever doesn't listen I will hang out to dry because they want to yolo into the enemy fleet then let them be. 

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2 minutes ago, mofton said:

Because some people don't like carriers in the game in the first place, and then the carrier player who by joining the queue has inflicted himself on you does this:

EIMe9Dj.jpg

Which results in a guaranteed loss (our Akatsuki cross-dropped with no cover, our other DoY permaspotted to death, our Myoko savaged by TB's with no cover).

If a DD had potatoed as hard at the start it would have been recoverable. Thanks for nothing.

I can see your point but people are judging before looking at the stats at the end of the battle. I honestly does look and feel like HEY YOUR HERE I BLAME YOU *Insert curse remarks here* I've gone into matches with my neptune, seen a Carrier player and I'll do what I can to help a brother out, some tips if they need them and stick near BB's that have poor AA, If they did good I'll compliment them and say nice words, win or lose because I know some one in some match will chew them out. 

Now if they did terribly I'd see if they are up for a chat, was it a one off? or are they just a rookie? A little help goes a long god damn way.

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Because a CV can absolutely ruin someone's game in a way no other ship class can replicate. Few things are worse in this game than being perma plane spotted in a stealthy DD for example. Or being cross-torped or AP bombed. Now maybe I'm not perma spotted or getting struck because you're a bad CV I get that you have other things to do and a lot to focus on but the fact remains that the presence of a CV basically ruined my game and you did nothing to help me. Not everyone is going to be calm or nice about that fact. And frankly I'm not going to be very nice about it if I notice you've got two fighter squadrons idling somewhere pointless while I'm being screwed over by the enemy CV. 

CVs are a really weird class that will generate a lot of rage. Just a fact of life. 

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15 minutes ago, Joe_Barbarian said:

It's almost like a x2 multiplier to having abuse thrown at you from people who take things too seriously.

Next time you join a battle in a cv type "in my last game, my team told me to strafe. Does anyone know what that means?" And enjoy the salty chat. 

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2 minutes ago, Rocketpacman said:

Because a CV can absolutely ruin someone's game in a way no other ship class can replicate. Few things are worse in this game than being perma plane spotted in a stealthy DD for example. Or being cross-torped or AP bombed. Now maybe I'm not perma spotted or getting struck because you're a bad CV I get that you have other things to do and a lot to focus on but the fact remains that the presence of a CV basically ruined my game and you did nothing to help me. Not everyone is going to be calm or nice about that fact. And frankly I'm not going to be very nice about it if I notice you've got two fighter squadrons idling somewhere pointless while I'm being screwed over by the enemy CV. 

CVs are a really weird class that will generate a lot of rage. Just a fact of life. 

I understand your concerns, I just want to raise some points here. There are times that as a CV we can't do anything about being spotted. Such as Heavy AA cruisers such as Minotaurs. I've had an experience of 2 Minotaurs sitting within 1-2 KM from each other in smoke keeping a DD pinned, he was being spotted by planes right above those Minotaurs. I pointed out I can't help because If i go there I will lose my fighters and it will take around 90 seconds to redeploy and about 30-40 seconds to re-position them. However in that exact same conflict I was able to torp a Chapayev and AP bomb a Tirpitz. ( First game I ever got double strike ) because of that we won the match. But I was still called names and lost karma. 

So why do CV players just have to live with the fact that people rage and throw abuse "Just a fact of life" shouldn't we as a community look to curve this and educate people?

 

Just now, StoneRhino said:

Next time you join a battle in a cv type "in my last game, my team told me to strafe. Does anyone know what that means?" And enjoy the salty chat. 

Next time i'm pushed to the edge because someone wants to turn into a whiny 9 year old, I'm going to do this.

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Views from an experienced DD player, not a CV player.

Good CVs can win battles and can have great influence.

A bad CV driver is easy to spot.

When I see a CV player that waits for all the squadrons to do their merry-go-round in the first minute instead of scouting early: bad CV driver

When I see a CV player that sends their squadrons to the side of the map to hug the border (wow! What a novel idea! I bet nobody has seen that one before).: bad CV driver

What is a good CV driver? One that scouts, harasses, keeps DDs lit till dead, runs away from danger when a red DD comes to the backyard instead of staying put behind an island (I bet nobody knows I am here as nobody has seen this map before and this island is not an obvious place to hide).

A good CV driver knows how to strafe, and how to hit. Does not have to kill everyone in sight or even be able to kill DDs (the best ones do all the time). Just spot them and point the team to shoot at them. It is not rocket science.

 

Edited by alexf24
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In normal games, DDs are the most influential ships in a match.  But when a CV is in, you are by far, the most influential ship for your team.  The things you can do, the responsibilities of a CV are immense, and the higher in tier you are, the more demanding it is.  Let me make it clear.  Nothing is better for your team than a well played CV.  On the same token, nothing is worse for your team than a badly played CV.  Mistakes happen in any ship but mistakes done with a CV, poor play, are magnified even more because of the things a CV can do.

 

You can have a potato performance in a low tier CV and people will not think too much of it.  But go ahead and be a potato CV in higher tier matches, especially VIII+.  The CVs get very powerful and can do all kinds of crazy stuff at higher tiers, so the expectations definitely grow.

 

Sometimes you'll get a lot of hate, i.e. doing well, getting Clear Sky even as a CV, and people will still whine that a bomber flight got through and hit them up.  They don't know that fighter coverage is never 100%, they don't know that you still need to rearm your planes, they don't know that the servicing time can be very long (US aircraft units take ages), they don't know that it still takes time to get the planes back and forth where they need to be.  There are players out there that expect 100% fighter coverage personally for them.

 

All you can do is hold up your end as a CV.  The scores will show through in the end if you did your job right, win or lose.

 

Remember, you are the most influential ship, often the only CV of the team.  You can have multiple BBs, multiple Cruisers, multiple DDs.  If you are among those BBs, DDs, Cruisers, you can have a potato game yourself, but there are other BBs, Cruisers, DDs to take up the slack.  Not so as a CV.  You are typically alone on a pedestal with spotlights shining on you.  The show is on.  As a CV, you better perform.  That's what people expect.  When you do well, you'll get praises from your team.  But if you do badly, you will get a lot of scorn.  You are the ONLY CV on the team.  You are the most influential ship on the team.  Again, you better perform.

Edited by HazeGrayUnderway
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I'm not a unicum CV player, but I'm getting close to being able to say that I am. 

 

One of the biggest issues happens to be that so many people simply want to rely on their CV for too much. Non-CV players don't understand how one single real AA build ship in the right position can completely shut you down... for the entire match. And if your team simply ignores that ship to instead farm BB damage... you will be useless to them.

 

If you want protection from an enemy CV, build yourself as an AA ship. 

 

If you want your CV to help kill enemy ships... you should focus enemy AA ships.

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21 minutes ago, Rocketpacman said:

 Few things are worse in this game than being perma plane spotted in a stealthy DD for example. Or being cross-torped or AP bombed. 

I can think of a few that are at least just as bad.

yWd6xoK.jpg

fIpVrsv.jpg

I bet they wished their AA could shoot down some of those shells

 

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2 minutes ago, StoneRhino said:

I bet they wished their AA could shoot down some of those shells

... Dude, my kidneys are hurting laughing at that ... Tears in my eyes

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17 minutes ago, Spartias said:

I'm not a unicum CV player, but I'm getting close to being able to say that I am. 

 

One of the biggest issues happens to be that so many people simply want to rely on their CV for too much. Non-CV players don't understand how one single real AA build ship in the right position can completely shut you down... for the entire match. And if your team simply ignores that ship to instead farm BB damage... you will be useless to them.

 

If you want protection from an enemy CV, build yourself as an AA ship. 

 

If you want your CV to help kill enemy ships... you should focus enemy AA ships.

Yeah this is why at least my BBs run with BFT and AFT Captain skills  since I know they are usually  priority targets for CVs and that my team's CV can't cover everything so I do my part in downing planes and sometimes down most of the planes the enemy CV had, lol those are the hilarious battles when that happens.

I do have some AA CVs as well and I am going down the USN DD line so will likely have some AA DDs as well.

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Because carriers are overpowered, and if the enemy team has a good cv capt. and you are crapit gives the other team a huge advantage. 

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16 hours ago, Joe_Barbarian said:

See this, this is the kind of player behaviour that should be encouraged. People should be forgiving and understanding that people have bad games. We're humans not robots, yeah I've called a fair share of teams noobs because they make me want to be at both ends of the map at the same time while still covering the middle. I commonly go into a match these days "Pick 2 points and i'll cover them, i'm not stretching myself to 3 points" And whoever doesn't listen I will hang out to dry because they want to yolo into the enemy fleet then let them be. 

@Joe_Barbarian have you looked at your CV stats? If you load into a game with me in it, you're getting an earful because you will be a big factor in the loss we will almost inevitably have. You have no business bringing your CV play to a high tier match in which other players want to win. When I have stats like yours in a ship, I put that ship down. I don't inflict incompetence on others.

It's not a question of "bad games". You aren't good at CVs and that is reflected in your stats in CVs. 

People blame the CV because the game turns on the play of the CV. That means when the game is lost, you are the single most important factor. If you don't want that blame, don't play CV. Because you yourself are the major factor, judging from the numbers.

And stop complaining about it in the forums. There might be some justification if you were an 85% CV player like the one we faced yesterday (an inevitable loss). But you are not in a position to talk about it.

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generally with a cv in play, the game is won or lost in the first 5-8 mins of the round. a cv will be crapon if it doesn't try to spot enemy dd's or counteract the spotting of friendly dd's. when all your friendly destroyers have melted, the caps are no longer protected + the cv has DIRECTLY helped earn that defeat screen, that's why a large majority of salt goes to cv.

too many cvs are just meme-worthy with how little thought goes into what their purpose is apart from 'OMG MUST GET KILLS' lol.

Getting to the point where you need to find a rare, good CV driver and div with them to ensure you're going to be in a decent matchup.

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People blame the CV because it's easier than blaming themselves.

1 minute ago, Taichunger said:

@Joe_Barbarian have you looked at your CV stats? If you load into a game with me in it, you're getting an earful because you will be a big factor in the loss we will almost inevitably have. You have no business bringing your CV play to a high tier match in which other players want to win. When I have stats like yours in a ship, I put that ship down. I don't inflict incompetence on others.

It's not a question of "bad games". You aren't good at CVs and that is reflected in your stats in CVs. 

People blame the CV because the game turns on the play of the CV. That means when the game is lost, you are the single most important factor. If you don't want that blame, don't play CV. Because you yourself are the major factor, judging from the numbers.

And stop complaining about it in the forums. There might be some justification if you were an 85% CV player like the one we faced yesterday (an inevitable loss). But you are not in a position to talk about it.

This is wrong on more levels than I think you can comprehend.  Not least of which being that your stats aren't exactly stellar when you can't bring one or two friends along with you.

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