Jump to content

430 comments in this topic

Recommended Posts

701
[UFFA]
Beta Testers
3,749 posts
4,245 battles

@Dalea

 

The Italian fan base, afaik, was bemused by the direction WG chose for the balanstm pass. The two major points being Dunkerque copy and paste shell stats and TDS value. Feel free to query @Phoenix_jz or @Demon93IT among others if you don’t believe me.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Members
594 posts
4,461 battles
4 minutes ago, AraAragami said:

Remember Caesare didn't look so good before release, too.

I remember Mouse was in love with her.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
404
[WOLF2]
Alpha Tester
2,302 posts
7,554 battles

So Bad AA, Poor Maneuverability, Bad Secondaries and Bad Accuracy. The Stealth is way overrated for battleships and the armor seems hit or miss. Really questioning that "Gudbote" rating.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
701
[UFFA]
Beta Testers
3,749 posts
4,245 battles
3 minutes ago, EmperorMaxwell said:

So Bad AA, Poor Maneuverability, Bad Secondaries and Bad Accuracy. The Stealth is way overrated for battleships and the armor seems hit or miss. Really questioning that "Gudbote" rating.

I guess I’m still digesting the review because gudbote and hard pass for rank seem odd. 

G01Ye.gif

Quote

 

I have to give her a firm pass here.  Between her high water citadel, 381mm teething issues and poor AA power, she's not ideal.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7,974
[NMKJT]
Beta Testers
22,402 posts
3,895 battles

Frankly the very high pen on her HP is probably going to work with my playstyle very nicely. The citadel situation just means you keep your distance.

 

Honestly, it's probably comparable to Yamato. Keep your distance until you're ready to commit, and hammer the enemy with AP their armor will have trouble stopping.

 

Poor HE isn't even an issue. Seriously.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2,059
[SIM]
Members
3,419 posts
5,266 battles

Thanks for the review, Mouse. 

I’ll end up picking the ship up, but I don’t think that I’m going to enjoy playing it. I’m not sour about her power level, I’m just not excited about her playstyle. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1,676
Members
2,229 posts
10,524 battles

Difinitely seems to be a high skill ceiling.  I'd hate to see a tomato in a Roma.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Alpha Tester
3,483 posts
1,556 battles

I have to say I am a bit disappointed to be honest and this review might have saved me so money.

What disappoints me is her citadel.  All the initial impressions were very impressed with her armor so this does make me wonder if they raised her citadel for balance purposes but one thing I absolutely could not stand with the old version of USN BBs was just how easy it was to be deleted from full health the second any enemy BB managed to get a whiff of your broadside.  That being the case, based on this review I am not sure the Roma is the right ship for me.  I mean I don't have an issue with taking a citadel here or there when I either make a mistake or take a calculated gamble and expose too much broadside but I have taken  triple and quad citadel hits in my Missouri, quite frequently prior to them lowering the Citadel.  If that is what the Roma is like, I will have to pass.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2,667
[HINON]
Beta Testers, In AlfaTesters
7,544 posts
2,090 battles
3 minutes ago, Midnitewolf said:

I have to say I am a bit disappointed to be honest and this review might have saved me so money.

What disappoints me is her citadel.  All the initial impressions were very impressed with her armor so this does make me wonder if they raised her citadel for balance purposes but one thing I absolutely could not stand with the old version of USN BBs was just how easy it was to be deleted from full health the second any enemy BB managed to get a whiff of your broadside.  That being the case, based on this review I am not sure the Roma is the right ship for me.  I mean I don't have an issue with taking a citadel here or there when I either make a mistake or take a calculated gamble and expose too much broadside but I have taken  triple and quad citadel hits in my Missouri, quite frequently prior to them lowering the Citadel.  If that is what the Roma is like, I will have to pass.

Keep in mind, Missouri only has a 307mm belt, the slope making it worth roughly 324mm. This is a 375mm belt, although the slope makes it equivalent to 381mm This belt will be a lot tougher when angled. Ex, at 45º Iowa's belt is only 458mm of effective armor. Roma's belt would be 539mm at the same angle. Amagi can penetrate 458mm at roughly 16.7 km. 539mm, however, would require it to get within 12.4 km. The belt on Roma is one of the toughest in game; the issue is she still has her citadel up higher in a historical placement, whereas the American Fast BBs and the British BBs had theirs dropped for balans™

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
27,849
[WG-CC]
WoWS Community Contributors
9,931 posts
8,379 battles
34 minutes ago, EmperorMaxwell said:

So Bad AA, Poor Maneuverability, Bad Secondaries and Bad Accuracy. The Stealth is way overrated for battleships and the armor seems hit or miss. Really questioning that "Gudbote" rating.

It's like people don't even read the reviews...

  • Arguably the worst AA at her tier.  If not then second only to Tirpitz.
  • Manoeuvrability is decent.  Not great.  She'd need more speed or a touch faster rate of turn or a smaller turning radius to be great.
  • Her dispersion is mediocre.  Her shell velocity is incredible.  So is her penetration.  So if you can aim (and survive long enough to shoot a lot), they'll work for you.
  • Armour is good.  Citadel placement is not.  This means you'll bounce for days if you angle correctly, but if you screw up, you can lose your ship very quickly.
  • Vision control wins game.  Roma is set up to facilitate that.  Dismiss that at your peril.
  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2,789
[NSF]
Beta Testers
5,203 posts
7,690 battles
12 minutes ago, Phoenix_jz said:

Keep in mind, Missouri only has a 307mm belt, the slope making it worth roughly 324mm. This is a 375mm belt, although the slope makes it equivalent to 381mm This belt will be a lot tougher when angled. Ex, at 45º Iowa's belt is only 458mm of effective armor. Roma's belt would be 539mm at the same angle. Amagi can penetrate 458mm at roughly 16.7 km. 539mm, however, would require it to get within 12.4 km. The belt on Roma is one of the toughest in game; the issue is she still has her citadel up higher in a historical placement, whereas the American Fast BBs and the British BBs had theirs dropped for balans™

 

I mean, as near as I can tell there isn't even an equivalent to the USN 13-16 mm STS third deck (25-50 mm over magazines) below the main armor deck on the VV's. Cutaway amidships just has the MAD and then its machinery spaces immediately beneath. The British are the ones who really just run away with it, considering the top third of the boilers are literally cut off to achieve the citadel on KGV through Lion ingame...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
404
[WOLF2]
Alpha Tester
2,302 posts
7,554 battles
20 minutes ago, LittleWhiteMouse said:

It's like people don't even read the reviews...

  • Arguably the worst AA at her tier.  If not then second only to Tirpitz.
  • Manoeuvrability is decent.  Not great.  She'd need more speed or a touch faster rate of turn or a smaller turning radius to be great.
  • Her dispersion is mediocre.  Her shell velocity is incredible.  So is her penetration.  So if you can aim (and survive long enough to shoot a lot), they'll work for you.
  • Armour is good.  Citadel placement is not.  This means you'll bounce for days if you angle correctly, but if you screw up, you can lose your ship very quickly.
  • Vision control wins game.  Roma is set up to facilitate that.  Dismiss that at your peril.

 

I read the review and each post here, but overemphasis on stealth to glaze over the poor stats across the board does not make this ship "good:" The "lauding of its stealth is even worse when you know that this ship will be destroyed with ease the moment it fires its guns at 11-12km. It happened to Iowa when its citadel was above waterline, as it did to Montana, and still happens to Yamato. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
27,849
[WG-CC]
WoWS Community Contributors
9,931 posts
8,379 battles
Just now, EmperorMaxwell said:

 

I read the review and each post here, but overemphasis on stealth to glaze over the poor stats across the board does not make this ship "good:" The "lauding of its stealth is even worse when you know that this ship will be destroyed with ease the moment it fires its guns at 11-12km. It happened to Iowa when its citadel was above waterline, as it did to Montana, and still happens to Yamato. 

Those stats aren't poor.  They're average. 

  • GARBAGE - One of, if not the worst at its tier. This is a pronounced weakness.
  • MEH - Middle of the pack at its tier. Not terrible, but not terribly good either.
  • GUD - Has a significant advantage over her tier mates. A solid, competitive performer.
  • BEST - No other ship at its tier does this as well as this ship. 

 

  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7,974
[NMKJT]
Beta Testers
22,402 posts
3,895 battles
11 minutes ago, LittleWhiteMouse said:

Those stats aren't poor.  They're average. 

  • GARBAGE - One of, if not the worst at its tier. This is a pronounced weakness.
  • MEH - Middle of the pack at its tier. Not terrible, but not terribly good either.
  • GUD - Has a significant advantage over her tier mates. A solid, competitive performer.
  • BEST - No other ship at its tier does this as well as this ship. 

Most posters on this server are conditioned to think "average" is code for "bad", so take with that what you will, I guess.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
27,849
[WG-CC]
WoWS Community Contributors
9,931 posts
8,379 battles
1 minute ago, AraAragami said:

Most posters on this server are conditioned to think "average" is code for "bad", so take with that what you will, I guess.

Sad, innit?  I was so happy Roma managed to be balanced and competitive without being disgustingly OP.

  • Cool 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Alpha Tester
3,483 posts
1,556 battles
31 minutes ago, Phoenix_jz said:

Keep in mind, Missouri only has a 307mm belt, the slope making it worth roughly 324mm. This is a 375mm belt, although the slope makes it equivalent to 381mm This belt will be a lot tougher when angled. Ex, at 45º Iowa's belt is only 458mm of effective armor. Roma's belt would be 539mm at the same angle. Amagi can penetrate 458mm at roughly 16.7 km. 539mm, however, would require it to get within 12.4 km. The belt on Roma is one of the toughest in game; the issue is she still has her citadel up higher in a historical placement, whereas the American Fast BBs and the British BBs had theirs dropped for balans™

I guess where my fear come in is I remember one of the first matches I was in with my Missouri. I had strayed a big too far into enemy territory and I felt I was getting a bit too much attention  from that enemy that was about 15km away so I decided to turn away and put some distance between me and the enemy before circling back in.  I did this all the time in BBs and occasionally was punished by a citadel hit every once in a while but usually it was something I could weather through just fine.  The second I did this in the Missouri though....BLAM!!! deleted much like a common cruiser.   Figured it was a fluke until a few game later did the same thing.....BLAM!!! Deleted.  Another match stumbled onto a Grober at close range....BLAM!!!! Deleted.  I was like wth???, and went to the PTS to test a few things out.  Basically I took out every other Nation's Tier 9 BB and purposely exposed my Broadside to as many of the enemy BBs as I could just to see how many I would be  "BLAM!!! Deleted"  in them and guess what.....never happened, not once in like 20 matches while trying to give the enemy the best target opportunity I could.  Did I get the occasional Citadel or two? Yep sure did, just never instantly deleted with 3-4-5 citadel hits in a single enemy slavo like with the Missouri.

That being the case, if the belt is functional enough that I am not going to get multiple citadel hits every damn time I show broadside, rather just the occasional citadel like most other BBs do, sure I will buy her even with the raised citadel but if I can expect getting multi-citadel hit each and every time I give broadside for whatever reason, then no, not dealing with that.

And with that I got to say that it really sucks that WG doesn't put the new premiums up on the test server like they used to do with WoT so we could actually test out the ships ourselves, first hand, before buying.   $54, the typical price of a Tier 8 premium BB, is alot of money to spend on "Faith" that your going to like the ship which is probably the reason 90% of my premium ships come from Santa's Gifts which tends to dramatically reduce the prices of acquiring these ships.  So I will watch a few more videos, check out a few more reviews and maybe observe a few in game before making a decision, but there is a strong possibility Roma will be acquired under the Christmas tree next holiday season rather than at full price upon release. 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7,974
[NMKJT]
Beta Testers
22,402 posts
3,895 battles
5 minutes ago, LittleWhiteMouse said:

Sad, innit?  I was so happy Roma managed to be balanced and competitive without being disgustingly OP.

I may have missed it in the review-- or forgot or skimmed past it since I couldn't read it closely while at work. How does she do in tier 10? Considering this is a concern of tier 8 ships.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Alpha Tester
3,483 posts
1,556 battles
16 minutes ago, LittleWhiteMouse said:

Those stats aren't poor.  They're average. 

  • GARBAGE - One of, if not the worst at its tier. This is a pronounced weakness.
  • MEH - Middle of the pack at its tier. Not terrible, but not terribly good either.
  • GUD - Has a significant advantage over her tier mates. A solid, competitive performer.
  • BEST - No other ship at its tier does this as well as this ship. 

 

Hate to say it LWM but when someone says "Meh" to me it means below average.  I mean if I ask someone how the food is at a given restaurant and they give me "Meh", I am not going to eat at that restaurant.  I have to at least get a "Decent" out of them which means average to me. 

  • Cool 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
701
[UFFA]
Beta Testers
3,749 posts
4,245 battles
  • Quote

    GUD - Has a significant advantage over her tier mates. A solid, competitive performer.

The ship is being listed as good with this rating yet you say:

 

16 minutes ago, LittleWhiteMouse said:

Sad, innit?  I was so happy Roma managed to be balanced and competitive without being disgustingly OP.

These are the mouth breather take aways, I say this as king of the mouth breathers:

 

5oy0WWB.jpgQNSEu3w.jpg y57en6P.jpg ky9Vuct.jpg

 

We are in Huang Meh territory and then:

 

 MVtlj2U.jpg

 

 

And all of this garners us a final result of:

 

wcBMjKj.jpg

 

based off  Cesare JbTdlZr.gif

 

of 

 

giphy.gif

 

Not saying it is a bad thing. Just kind of meh.

Edited by SparvieroVV
  • Cool 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
336
[NUWES]
Members
2,127 posts
6,731 battles
1 hour ago, SparvieroVV said:

I guess I’m still digesting the review because gudbote and hard pass for rank seem odd. 

G01Ye.gif

 

Why would it be? Good overall and good for specific use aren't the same thing. IT just doesn't fit the meta well. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
404
[WOLF2]
Alpha Tester
2,302 posts
7,554 battles
6 minutes ago, SparvieroVV said:
  •  

The ship is being listed as good with this rating yet you say:

 

These are the mouth breather take aways, I say this as king of the mouth breathers:

 

5oy0WWB.jpgQNSEu3w.jpg y57en6P.jpg ky9Vuct.jpg

 

We are in Huang Meh territory and then:

 

 MVtlj2U.jpg

 

 

And all of this garners us a final result of:

 

wcBMjKj.jpg

And that is exactly my issue with Mouse's review here. There is nothing outside of stealth that warrants the status of "significantly advantage" over its peers. Is Roma's AA better than her peers? No, Armor? With that raised citadel that even cruisers will hit, No. Maneuverability? No. Firepower? Nope its a 15" gun with Bismarck terribad accuracy. 

If mouse had given this ship the "meh" rating that stats say its worth, then I would be disappointed, but I would not feel that Mouse is misleading me, but as long as she says its gud then I have to question it because statistically its not good at all. 

Edited by EmperorMaxwell
  • Bad 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
970
[_K_]
Members
3,075 posts
6,609 battles
9 minutes ago, Midnitewolf said:

Hate to say it LWM but when someone says "Meh" to me it means below average.  I mean if I ask someone how the food is at a given restaurant and they give me "Meh", I am not going to eat at that restaurant.  I have to at least get a "Decent" out of them which means average to me. 

No, you have to interpret their subjective opinion of "meh" and translate it into your subjective opinion of "meh" for it to have any meaning. Even close friends often have to request clarification and context for such things.

This review leaves so many opportunities for interpretation into the reader's subjective definitions that semantic disputation suggests lack of reading comprehension.

  • Cool 1
  • Bad 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×