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58 minutes ago, LittleWhiteMouse said:
Her forward fire angles are similarly wonderful.  They almost hit the highly sought after (but so seldom realized) 30º-off-the-bow benchmark which defines truly excellent fire arcs.  Her X-turret can engage enemies 31º off her forward centerline, allowing Roma to take very aggressive bow-on attack angles and necessitating only the slightest touches of a rudder to unload all nine guns.

And it's nerfed! The original ship fired the X turret at 20° off her forward centerline.

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An excellent review as usual Mouse. I like the new format.

g8Xe7FG.gif

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3 minutes ago, LittleWhiteMouse said:

Sure.

  • Guns are good enough.
  • Defense is good enough -- great even if you know how to wiggle.
  • Speed & Agility is good enough -- great even if you know how to abuse it.
  • Concealment is superb.

Vision control wins games, full stop.  Roma can control engagement distance.  Her guns perform optimally against most targets at the range in and around where she would be spotted.  This means when you're playing Roma, so long as you do things correctly, your weaknesses are a non-issue.  This leaves a ship that gets to play to its strengths more often than not.

Thank you. I know many enjoy the formats you use for your reviews, however, I'm a simple guy, and I need things to be direct and simple, sometimes I get lost and confused trying to wade through all the terms, numbers, and terminology.

 

Again, thank you for the explanation, it is appreciated. :)

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Just now, xDiaboliquex said:

Again, thank you for the explanation, it is appreciated. :)

One thing to keep in mind is that 'meh' doesn't mean 'bad', it means 'average for its tier / type' / 'unremarkable'.

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4 minutes ago, WeissRaben_2 said:

And it's nerfed! The original ship fired the X turret at 20° off her forward centerline.

Funny you should mention, I looked at that.  This is why they can't.  The boats on deck prevent the gun from traversing any further (a common problem in World of Warships).  In addition, there's that pesky 20mm Breda blocking one of her gun barrels. 

FtyCa2M.jpg

 

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I'm not gonna lie, while I'm happy to see the ship there's a lot of stuff that just makes me have much more of an 'eh' attitude towards her than I'd like, and I hope at least some stuff changes before release.

Aesthetically, the model itself looks great, but the Kobayashi camo - if I want good rewards, do I really have to be forced to use such a monstrosity of a camo? Like, I get how those camos aesthetically work well on Japanese ships... but on the Roma? Really? I mean, really? And of course there's still the bloody Fritz X. 

 

Main guns:

- While I'm glad we didn't get punished for the silly 45 second reload myth, I think the lack of accuracy is a bit excessive given how much it overpens cruisers. The accuracy didn't seem excessive back when it had a 1.9 sigma, but I digress on that point. However, for the 'HE' rounds... Really? I mean, fine if you want her to have HE, but why would you insist on turning an Armor-Piercing Shell into a High-Explosive shell? A shell that had over 200mm of penetration at 20 km, High-Explosive? What? If Roma's weakness against cruisers was overpenetration, that giving her these rounds as shorter-fuzed SAP with less penetration would've been a great, interesting way to balance it out, at the cost of the ship lacking HE.

Citadel:

- As far as balance goes I wouldn't mind because BBs should be vulnerable... but I find it a little ridiculous that WG turns around and gives Roma such a high citadel after dropping those of American BBs down, and then turning the entire line of the Royal Navy Supercruisers Battleships into nigh-impossible to citadel beasts, despite the height of some of their citadels historically making Roma's look nonexistent in comparison...

 

AA:

- Why must the range on all the DP guns be gimped? First the 100mm guns, but the 90mm guns as well? Not even 4.5 km? And yet guns like the French 100mm/45 gets 5.0 km? Dare I even ask how that works?

 

Engine Power:

*Stares at Richelieu. Stares at Richelieu with hilarious engine upgrade. Stares at Richelieu with 8% engine boost*

*Stares at Roma. Stares at only 128200 shp versus the maximum 160000 shp. Stares at Roma with nothing else despite the ability to boost that maximum by 12%*

 

Ok, I admit that last part is just humorous as I really don't expect that to have ever been touched. The French will keep their silly speed boost despite it making no sense, and I don't seriously expect to see a 31.5-32 knot Roma with an engine boost XD

 

But the other stuff stands. I think one little bit of help in one of these areas would help make the ship less meh, but that's just me and my opinion.

 

 

What this does make me very interested for though, given how much gimping has happened, is the idea of an eventual use of Littorio or Vittorio Veneto as a tier IX free-Xp premium someday for Italy, in a 'what if Italy was able to keep them post-war'...

Give the 90mm guns a 5 km range, maybe drop the reload of the guns by a bit, but certainly nothing lower than 26 seconds (that'd just be silly), buff the engine power up to the historic 160,000 shp maximum and 32 knots, with a speed boost as a gimmick (8-12%). Give the guns better sigma, 2.0 maybe... revisit the AA armament, since it's Post-war one could spam Bofors and Oerlikons. Heck, the main belt was able to give the same effective armor as a 450mm plate, so why not mess around with that too? XD Maybe raise the range of the main guns too lol

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19 minutes ago, xDiaboliquex said:

I'm honestly confused as to how you came up with a Good designation for Roma, given that the only thing that appears to have passed muster is her ability to hide. Great gun traverse doesn't matter if you either can't hit what you're aiming at, or watch your shells consistently blow through for much less damage than you deserve. Speed doesn't matter if you have to circle the globe in order to turn around. AA does matter, because she won't be able to stop TB's from dropping, and will have massive difficulty evading what's dropped. So what if she can obliterate DB's?

 

@LittleWhiteMouse, if you would, please, explain to me/us in pure layman's short terms exactly what it is that makes Roma "Good." I'm not attacking you or trying to offend you in any way, I'm truly very confused as to how you came to the conclusion you did.

Roma is a ship that can force a fight on someone, on her own terms, with the gun handling and deep penetration her shells offer you can hit hard and deep into a citadel. as long as you play to her strengths.

 

cant wait to buy her... CURSE YOU WG YOU COULDENT WAIT ANOTHER WEEK TO LET MY PAYCHECKS COME IN!!!!!!!!

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Having read the review I still have a few wishes. 

  • Hydro since the ship did have a sonar room. :p
  • Littorio class regularly activated torpedo beats. Yet meh maneuvering?
  • The sigma is such that proper III turret rotation should not be an issue.
  • No hydro, no torpedo beats why not better secondary range? 152/55 was expected to fire out to ~14km range. 
  • The “HE” round is an SAP round. WG continues to buff other countries’ “HE” rounds while only applying the most negative features to Italian rounds. Minus the copy-paste Dunkerque shell stats for Cesare. 

I find it sad that the comment is excitement is about the one ship of the class that never actively participated in any operations. sigh

The ship will be great stat wise, the insulting Kobayashi camo will sell like hot cakes. A ship of the Regia Marina with a camo that states the Italian republic?!? I already know my opinions fly in the face of popular opinion. :) 

Bring on the down votes, cheers all.

I will save time and quote myself. To be safe this was said in good cheer and I expect nothing to change. 

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By the Seven she is dead freaking sexy. 

My Great Grandfather got to see her in real life. 

I can make her work. 

I have to buy a car...damnation. :Smile_sad: 

Thanks for all you do Mouse... 

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@Phoenix_jz

 

Ever notice how WG will use exact shell names for other nations and generic shell names for Italy :cap_like:

That would be nice about the SAP round especially since the review pretty much indicates that using palla sub 10km is suicidal.

 

 

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Hmmm... another higherish tier BB that has diminished gun accuracy as its con...

 

Meh...

 

I like being able to blap badz guys on command.

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25 minutes ago, SparvieroVV said:

@Phoenix_jz

 

Ever notice how WG will use exact shell names for other nations and generic shell names for Italy :cap_like:

That would be nice about the SAP round especially since the review pretty much indicates that using palla sub 10km is suicidal.

 

 

I think it would be a bit awkward for WG to call their HE shell an armor-piercing shell, so perhaps that's why? :Smile_teethhappy:

I mean, that was the historic compromise of the ammunition. I find it humorous that the same issue presents itself here, but the Regia Marina recognized that the 381mm palla was way too strong for most targets. The 381mm Granta Perforante was made so cruisers and destroyers could actually be engaged. If you look at the tables in the back of the 1942 Direttive e Norme per l'impiego della Squadra Naval, the only targets that warranted the 381mm Palla were battleships. Anything else, from a carrier to a destroyer or a heavy cruiser, called for Granata Perforante, because the Palla would just be ridiculous levels of overkill.

 

I mean, the fact the Granata Perforante is HE is just hilarious. At 20 km the shell had the same penetration as the Japanese 14" gun, or Iron Duke's 13.5" gun:Smile_teethhappy:

In game? It's just crappy HE, even though it should be able to citadel a Moskva easily at 26 km.

 

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If the citadel issue is truly as LWM states, like it was before Iowa / Missouri, Montana got their citadels lowered, here's what can happen to you if you f--k it up.  This was back from those towering citadel days.

HL8mYmB.jpg

Look at that HP on the left.  One salvo did that Pre-Citadel Lowered Missouri in.  One salvo from only 6 guns.

 

Back in those days in high tier matches, we all LOVED US BBs from Tier IX-X.  Their high citadels made them hilariously easy to kill the moment they make a mistake.  I mean, you could be playing the ship perfectly right, but someone, somewhere that's not spotted will obliterate you because they shot your sides.

 

Even better?  Give a Cruiser a chance, this will happen with the poor BB citadel protection and tower-high citadels.

4YECpKO.jpg

My Baltimore latched onto this Iowa at close range around an island like a Pitbull and wrecked that Near Full HP Iowa so quick that not even her Clanmate Baltimore could kill me quick enough to save her.

 

It seems there has been a lot of changes to Roma compared to the earlier videos where everyone was gushing over her perfection.

Edited by HazeGrayUnderway

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18 minutes ago, HazeGrayUnderway said:

If the citadel issue is truly as LWM states, like it was before Iowa / Missouri, Montana got their citadels lowered, here's what can happen to you if you f--k it up.  This was back from those towering citadel days.

HL8mYmB.jpg

Look at that HP on the left.  One salvo did that Pre-Citadel Lowered Missouri in.  One salvo from only 6 guns.

 

Back in those days in high tier matches, we all LOVED US BBs from Tier IX-X.  Their high citadels made them hilariously easy to kill the moment they make a mistake.  I mean, you could be playing the ship perfectly right, but someone, somewhere that's not spotted will obliterate you because they shot your sides.

 

Even better?  Give a Cruiser a chance, this will happen with the poor BB citadel protection and tower-high citadels.

4YECpKO.jpg

My Baltimore latched onto this Iowa at close range around an island like a Pitbull and wrecked that Near Full HP Iowa so quick that not even her Clanmate Baltimore could kill me quick enough to save her.

 

It seems there has been a lot of changes to Roma compared to the earlier videos where everyone was gushing over her perfection.

Looks like Kii, Yamato, and other Japanese battleships, as well as Cesare.

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7 minutes ago, BrandonKF said:

Looks like Kii, Yamato, and other Japanese battleships, as well as Cesare.

None of those BBs get embarassed by getting citadeled 6-8 times in ONE salvo.  Even Mutsu at Tier VI with her very questionable citadel protection doesn't get embarrassed like that.  The funny part this was happening on a regular basis to Iowa, Montana.

Edited by HazeGrayUnderway

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Hmm...  Think this might end up being a wait and see boat.  Fast turning guns and good concealment are nice, but there's a lot of downsides given the price point at that tier.  Poor AA and secondaries, questionable gun accuracy, and that citadel are enough to make me a little cautious.  I've got enough bad memories of that high citadel in my Iowa and Montana to make me a little trigger shy on this boat given the current meta.

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I’m sure the Roma will rack up good stats. This is just the pre-release John Hughes 80s movie level angst. :cap_like:

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Great review, thanks!  Looks gorgeous; a little disappointed she is not quite as good as she originally appeared based on early CC videos, but she definitely sounds workable still.  Definitely going to buy, just trying to figure out if my Cesare captain is workable in Roma or if I should dedicate a captain...  Hummmmm...

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While I would never presume to contradict or even debate LMW on anything WoWs related,  I have to say that earlier I started a thread about my experience in going up against a Roma (tier VIII) in a Montana (tier X) at medium to short range on the PTS which got nuked without any explanation or warning.  Suffice it to say my very limited observations on the Roma's armor scheme are vastly different than LWKs.

 

However as the thread was nuked at almost the exact moment this thread was posted I do have to wonder why the JWC Mods felt the need to delete it (not lock it... delete it completely).

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Reading this review, looks like Roma has been nerfed hard. Obviously Mouse was told to say it was a "Gud" bote so as not to screw up sales. But I suspect that after everyone except the Italian fandom complaining about GC being overpowered, it was nerfed. They didn't want another Italian boat to be top of the tier. I suspect that Italian ships will have one thing only, speed; fast guns; fast speed, fast whatever. Anyway I will still buy her but I am highly disappointed. Long live the Republic! 

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Her A-Turret barbette also seems to be part of the citadel, comprising a rounded 210mm bulge to her transverse bulkhead.  This gives shells that might have skipped over a flat surface another bite at the apple if they catch this rounded surface.  It's just another little quibble to sour Roma's armour protection.  

Is this different from other ships?

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54 minutes ago, HazeGrayUnderway said:

None of those BBs get embarassed by getting citadeled 6-8 times in ONE salvo.  Even Mutsu at Tier VI with her very questionable citadel protection doesn't get embarrassed like that.  The funny part this was happening on a regular basis to Iowa, Montana.

Yes. Kii does.

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13 minutes ago, Dalea said:

Reading this review, looks like Roma has been nerfed hard. Obviously Mouse was told to say it was a "Gud" bote so as not to screw up sales. But I suspect that after everyone except the Italian fandom complaining about GC being overpowered, it was nerfed. They didn't want another Italian boat to be top of the tier. I suspect that Italian ships will have one thing only, speed; fast guns; fast speed, fast whatever. Anyway I will still buy her but I am highly disappointed. Long live the Republic! 

 Um..no. She only had one change through her testing cycle, the sigma change to 1.8 from 1.9.

 

Also, the CCs are never told to say anything. They review the ship as they see fit. 

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